Condensing Boiler Comparison

Cmar-Ireland

Well folks,

I got some prices for the Grant condensing outdoor boilers.
There are two grant models, the Euroflame and the Vortex.
The Vortex is the better(dearer) of the two, with a 97% efficency rating. Whereas the Euroflame is 93% efficent.

There is approx €200 in the difference between them. So would this extra 4% show up in yearly heating bills? Our house is pretty well insulated and we intend to stay there for between 5 - 8 years.

The guy selling the boiler reckons there is not much point in spending the extra for the vortex.
So what do ye think? Euroflame or Vortex?

Thanks

blackbox

I'm surprised they are able to achieve 93% for a non-condensing boiler. They seem to be quoting nett efficiency for one and gross efficiency for the other - you'd want to check what they mean by each. They are claiming an "A" rating for the condensing model and a "C" rating for the non-condensing model, so the real difference must be more than 4%

A balanced flue will also give greater efficiency.

I'd probably go for the condensing model as long as they had equal guarantees and similar maintenance requirements.

Cmar-Ireland

No, both are condensing boilers, and both are A rated.
It's just the vortes has extra stainless steel baffles to extract more latent heat from the waster gasses.

JamesM

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

No, both are condensing boilers, and both are A rated.
It's just the vortes has extra stainless steel baffles to extract more latent heat from the waster gasses.

I'm pretty sure that the Euroflame is not a condensing boiler.

311

Theres a firebird condensing boiler out and it's a great yoke.

It comes with compressed fibreglass within the chassis and there is no heatloss.

Cmar-Ireland

JamesM wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that the Euroflame is not a condensing boiler.

Hmmm, I think your correct James.
But the guy (Keith) at Grant Engineering said they had two condensing boilers, a 93% and a 97% efficent models.

Anyway, I think I'll go with the 97% one, it's working out at €1248.

Regarding the soakaway for the condensate, I don't have a drain close to the boiler position. Would it be ok to dig a meter deep hole and fill it with gravel and run the drain to that? Once the hole is covered it should be ok?

Thanks

Doctor_L

What time duration are they using for their figures?

Some boilers only reach a high level of efficiency after a long burn time e.g. 90 mins plus.

De_man

311 wrote: »

Theres a firebird condensing boiler out and it's a great yoke.

have the firebird condensing boiler aswell - no probs working fine

JamesM

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

Hmmm, I think your correct James.
But the guy (Keith) at Grant Engineering said they had two condensing boilers, a 93% and a 97% efficent models.

Anyway, I think I'll go with the 97% one, it's working out at €1248.

Regarding the soakaway for the condensate, I don't have a drain close to the boiler position. Would it be ok to dig a meter deep hole and fill it with gravel and run the drain to that? Once the hole is covered it should be ok?

Thanks

That should be fine - All that comes out is slightly acidic water.
Jim.

GreeBo

What type of heating system do you have?
all the boilers I have seen are only running in condensing mode at relatively low temperatures (e.g for underfloor heating)
Other than that they will just run in non condensing mode and be no more efficient than the best non-condensing boiler (just a lot dearer!)

Cmar-Ireland

GreeBo wrote: »

What type of heating system do you have?
all the boilers I have seen are only running in condensing mode at relatively low temperatures (e.g for underfloor heating)
Other than that they will just run in non condensing mode and be no more efficient than the best non-condensing boiler (just a lot dearer!)

It's a 3 bed semi, with 11 rads. Sealed system. The boiler is going to be approx 13m from the house, so a good run underground.

Is it true that regular boilers are not meant to be sold anymore??? All new sales must be condensers

JamesM

GreeBo wrote: »

What type of heating system do you have?
all the boilers I have seen are only running in condensing mode at relatively low temperatures (e.g for underfloor heating)
Other than that they will just run in non condensing mode and be no more efficient than the best non-condensing boiler (just a lot dearer!)

Even in non condensing mode a condensing boiler is more efficient than a standard boiler. A lot more heat is extracted from the gasses, even if they don't condense.

Standard boilers are still being sold legally.

Cmar-Ireland

JamesM wrote: »

Standard boilers are still being sold legally.

Is this due to change soon?
I know he would be biased, but the tech guy in Grant mentioned some new legalisation about the sale of non condensers

GreeBo

JamesM wrote: »

Even in non condensing mode a condensing boiler is more efficient than a standard boiler. A lot more heat is extracted from the gasses, even if they don't condense.

Hmm I didnt think that was true but doing some research has changed my opinion. Its been about 2 years since I looked into getting a condensing boiler, maybe me info is out of date (or just always wrong )

311

You can still buy standard boilers ,but the law is there if the house is rented or if you sell the house on.

In other words ,you must prove if you sell your house next year that your new boiler was installed before the new rule.

Cmar-Ireland

311 wrote: »

You can still buy standard boilers ,but the law is there if the house is rented or if you sell the house on.

In other words ,you must prove if you sell your house next year that your new boiler was installed before the new rule.

So in other words, I have to buy a condenser?

311

Cmar-Ireland wrote: »

So in other words, I have to buy a condenser?

Personally if it was me ,I'd put a condenser in. The laws for the envoirnment will get tougher as time goes by.

You might personally regret not getting one ,but the choice is yours as long as your informed.

JamesM

GreeBo wrote: »

Hmm I didnt think that was true but doing some research has changed my opinion. Its been about 2 years since I looked into getting a condensing boiler, maybe me info is out of date (or just always wrong )

Just think of the boiler as a heat exchanger. It's a container. the walls are hollow and filled with water. The burner fires a flame into the container, heats the walls and then the water inside the walls. This water is pumped to the rads. The old type was very open and most of the heat went up the flue - didn't matter oil was cheap.

Modern standard boiler, like Grant Euroflame, has lots of baffles and the gasses travel around the boiler distributing more heat through the walls before exiting up the flue.

The condensing boiler has the standard baffles, and lots of heat transfers in that area. But after the baffles, instead of exiting from the flue, the gasses go through a further area of tubes and baffles, where more heat is extracted. So with a condensing boiler, even if the gasses do not condense, a lot more heat is extracted than the standard boiler.
Jim.

equigs

blackbox wrote: »

I'm surprised they are able to achieve 93% for a non-condensing boiler. They seem to be quoting nett efficiency for one and gross efficiency for the other - you'd want to check what they mean by each. They are claiming an "A" rating for the condensing model and a "C" rating for the non-condensing model, so the real difference must be more than 4%

A balanced flue will also give greater efficiency.

I'd probably go for the condensing model as long as they had equal guarantees and similar maintenance requirements.

How in the name of god could this guy actually think that these were non condensing boilers? i dont know.....im baffled....i wont be taking advice from him.

sullzz

equigs wrote: »

How in the name of god could this guy actually think that these were non condensing boilers? i dont know.....im baffled....i wont be taking advice from him.

It doesnt really matter the thread is 4 years old

Way over

I've just installed a grant vortex 90-120 with four heat zones. All going well except for water heating. Water only gets to about 30 degrees after an hour. Thermostats all checked so that's not the problem. Water working perfectly with the immersion heater. Beginning tho think there is a problem with the cylinder coil even though it is a new cylinder. Any ideas.

Billy Bunting

Way over wrote: »

I've just installed a grant vortex 90-120 with four heat zones. All going well except for water heating. Water only gets to about 30 degrees after an hour. Thermostats all checked so that's not the problem. Water working perfectly with the immersion heater. Beginning tho think there is a problem with the cylinder coil even though it is a new cylinder. Any ideas.

There is a balancing valve on the return pipe on cylinder, it sounds like it needs cracking open a half turn.

Way over

Thanks for that information. I'll get plumber to have a look even though he's baffled at the moment. Would you happen to know if the frost stat on the boiler can be turned down. It's factory preset to 5 degrees which means the boiler keeps cutting in. Seems a bit excessive.

shane0007

Way over wrote: »

I've just installed a grant vortex 90-120 with four heat zones. All going well except for water heating. Water only gets to about 30 degrees after an hour. Thermostats all checked so that's not the problem. Water working perfectly with the immersion heater. Beginning tho think there is a problem with the cylinder coil even though it is a new cylinder. Any ideas.

Ask him where the cylinder was bought. I had one recently with the same problem. Both flow & return pipes through the coil were red hot but water was barely luke warm. I took the cylinder back out to check the coil & there was only 3 turns of the coil. Supplier changed for a new cylinder & water heated up with no issues.

Also when checking the coil, it could have a twist in it from over-tightening fittings when it was been installed.