wind turbine

paddyc

right folks


I am gonna get a wind turbine into the house and I need your help


I am aware that you can now plug it into the grid...


my main question who do i contact for definite info on

buying them...and

...getting them installed so the ESB are happy etc etc


should i get onto SEI or ESB or whom


thanks paddy

jobrok1

This is the only one i've come across in this country so far...


http://www.energyliberators.com/Products/1KWGridTie.php


Hope it helps.

Cuauhtemoc

Few other links...

Wouldn't mind a 3kw turbine myself. Will be awhile though.

www.airoption.com
www.windturbines.ie
http://www.westwind.ie/smallwind.htm
http://www.genertec.ie/Products/WindEnergy/Wind-Energy-Specifications.html

maniac101

Hi Paddy, I seem to recall that you posted a similar question a few weeks ago. As I said the last time, ESB Networks are responsible for connection to the grid. You can find the information that you need on their website.
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/generator_connections/micro_gen_connections.jsp

You will need to apply for an interval meter to export electricity to the grid. However, whether your supplier will buy the electricity from you is another matter! You'll need to take that up with your supplier.

There are detailed conditions documented on the above website with regard to grid connection (standards, safety, interface protection etc.). Your electrician will need to be very familiar with these. On the whole, an off-grid system with local storage still looks more attractive.

You may have environmental or economic reasons for installing a wind turbine. Given that you're keen to sell excess to the grid, I assume that you have economic reasons at least. As far as I'm concerned, there is no domestic wind turbine on the market today that will pay for itself in its lifetime, at current electricity prices, with or without grid connection. Vendor information with regard to possible energy output is always misleading and sometimes incorrect. The environmental payback on most applications is also questionable when a full lifecycle analysis is considered.

probe

maniac101 wrote: »

Hi Paddy, I seem to recall that you posted a similar question a few weeks ago. As I said the last time, ESB Networks are responsible for connection to the grid. You can find the information that you need on their website.
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/generator_connections/micro_gen_connections.jsp

You will need to apply for an interval meter to export electricity to the grid. However, whether your supplier will buy the electricity from you is another matter! You'll need to take that up with your supplier.

There are detailed conditions documented on the above website with regard to grid connection (standards, safety, interface protection etc.). Your electrician will need to be very familiar with these. On the whole, an off-grid system with local storage still looks more attractive.

You may have environmental or economic reasons for installing a wind turbine. Given that you're keen to sell excess to the grid, I assume that you have economic reasons at least. As far as I'm concerned, there is no domestic wind turbine on the market today that will pay for itself in its lifetime, at current electricity prices, with or without grid connection. Vendor information with regard to possible energy output is always misleading and sometimes incorrect. The environmental payback on most applications is also questionable when a full lifecycle analysis is considered.

The ESB’s bureaucratic and financial requirements for “micro-generators” clearly show that the rubbish they fed to the media last week about the ESB turning green is GREENWASHING fraud!

If someone buys a 3kW wind or solar unit for their home, in the hope of selling surplus energy to the grid, why should they have to pay a minimum €1,744* “connection charge” to the ESB for a 12 kW connection to the grid?

Answer: The ESB don’t want you to generate electricity and will do everything they can to stop you. Virtually every household subscriber in Ireland has at least a 7 kW connection to the ESB network. The presence of a 3 kW generator in the house will reduce the load on the ESB connection into the house – not increase it!

On top of that they impose a €258 charge for a two-way meter.

As reported in http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055269467 the ESB equivalents in Germany must pay microgenerator households 49c per kWh for the electricity they generate and send into the grid.

The ESB goes on to say that you should “Please contact your supplier if you intend exporting for reward.” – which one could read as “we don’t have to pay you for any electricity you produce and send into the network” http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/form_nc7.pdf

Another Irish shambles, like broadband and public transport, etc. etc.

.probe

ESB’s bureaucracy map for intending microgenerators: http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/generator_connections/micro_gen_connections.jsp
* http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/standard_charges_quick_reference.pdf

Onother thing to consider is just how much can you generate?
I have considered a installing a windturbine, but decided to ste up a weather station to monitor the wind in the location I intended to locate the turbine.
The average wind speed here is in the region of 6-8km/h with a few windy days, for me I don't think I would be able to produce any worthwhile wind energy mé féin let alone to sell to the grid.
Look at the "athlone weather" link below for the current wind conditions where I live.

For successful wind generation the phrase "location location location" is paramount.

Mothman

Also a reason why I got my weather station.
8 years data, overall mean 7.5mph, annual varying from 6.9 to 8.2mph.

Windspeeds measured at 10m above ground.

No where near enough wind to have wind turbine near top of priority list.

When grid tie and more importantly running meter backgrounds in times of excess becomes more widely available, then I probably will install a system even though it probably wouldn't pay back in monetary terms.

maniac101

probe wrote: »

If someone buys a 3kW wind or solar unit for their home, in the hope of selling surplus energy to the grid, why should they have to pay a minimum €1,744* “connection charge” to the ESB for a 12 kW connection to the grid?

That charge has nothing to do with micro-generation. It's the standard charge for connecting any one-off house to the grid. It costs money to connect a new house to the grid. As with other utilities, these charges are passed on to the consumer.

I agree that the ESB are less than enthusiastic about micro-generation, - if that's the point you're making.

On top of that they impose a €258 charge for a two-way meter.

The interval meter is a stop-gap until smart meters are available. For this reason the CER has arranged to have a limited number of them made available to micro-generators for free through ESB Networks. I note that ESB don't bother to mention this on their website, for whatever reason. If the OP is going ahead with this, he should demand his 'free' interval meter from the ESB, referencing the CER agreement from Dec 2007. He'll still have to pay for the installation though.

maniac101

Deleted User wrote: »

Onother thing to consider is just how much can you generate?
I have considered a installing a windturbine, but decided to ste up a weather station to monitor the wind in the location I intended to locate the turbine.
The average wind speed here is in the region of 6-8km/h with a few windy days, for me I don't think I would be able to produce any worthwhile wind energy mé féin let alone to sell to the grid.
Look at the "athlone weather" link below for the current wind conditions where I live.

For successful wind generation the phrase "location location location" is paramount.

Nice website dolanbaker. I'll have to get one of those stations myself sometime. I agree that a wind turbine isn't economically viable for you and for most people. People always overestimate average windspeeds at their locations. Your stats speak for themselves. Your average windspeed (and Mothman's) is around 2m/s, if I've calculated right. Most wind turbines don't even turn at that speed. You have all the data to calculate exactly how much energy you'd get from a turbine over a year, when you combine your wind rose data with the power curve of the turbine. I'd estimate that your capacity factor is around 12%, i.e. a measure of average actual output of a turbine at your site versus rated output, taking into account the strength and fluctuation of the wind. This would give 120W per kW installed or a payback of around EUR160 p.a. (or 1MWh p.a.) per kW installed. Average payback is around 25 years, at current prices, which well exceeds the lifetimes of turbines currently on offer.

probe

maniac101 wrote: »

Nice website dolanbaker. I'll have to get one of those stations myself sometime. I agree that a wind turbine isn't economically viable for you and for most people. People always overestimate average windspeeds at their locations. Your stats speak for themselves. Your average windspeed (and Mothman's) is around 2m/s, if I've calculated right. Most wind turbines don't even turn at that speed. You have all the data to calculate exactly how much energy you'd get from a turbine over a year, when you combine your wind rose data with the power curve of the turbine. I'd estimate that your capacity factor is around 12%, i.e. a measure of average actual output of a turbine at your site versus rated output, taking into account the strength and fluctuation of the wind. This would give 120W per kW installed or a payback of around EUR160 p.a. (or 1MWh p.a.) per kW installed. Average payback is around 25 years, at current prices, which well exceeds the lifetimes of turbines currently on offer.

Yes http://dolanbaker.info/weather/wx.htm is an excellent weather report page - but the outside humidity number at 30% (at 19h55 IST) is way out. According to met.ie the lowest humidity in IRL at 19h00 is 74% and the highest is 99% (met eireann does not provile up to the minute numbers, unlike donalbaker). You'd need to be at 2,000 m up a non existent mountain in IRL to get 30% humidity at this time! http://www.met.ie/latest/reports.asp.

Getting back to the topic, the Midlands is probably the least suitable area in the country for wind turbines, relatively speaking.

.probe

Probably a sensor fault (it's being knocked over a couple of times and water got into it), It's not very well placed at the moment.
I intend to build a proper stevenson type shelter for the sensors later in the year.
As for the wind generator, well indefinately postponed.

wazzoraybelle

I think any site with less than 7 metres/sec average wind speed would never be viable, which rules out most of the country with the exclusion of exposed hilltops and the west and southwest coasts. Proven make a great if expensive turbine rated at 2.5 kw at 12m/s.

Capt'n Midnight

probe wrote:

You'd need to be at 2,000 m up a non existent mountain in IRL to get 30% humidity at this time!

But at least you'd have plenty of wind

Annatar

maniac101 wrote: »

That charge has nothing to do with micro-generation. It's the standard charge for connecting any one-off house to the grid. It costs money to connect a new house to the grid. As with other utilities, these charges are passed on to the consumer.

I agree that the ESB are less than enthusiastic about micro-generation, - if that's the point you're making.



The interval meter is a stop-gap until smart meters are available. For this reason the CER has arranged to have a limited number of them made available to micro-generators for free through ESB Networks. I note that ESB don't bother to mention this on their website, for whatever reason. If the OP is going ahead with this, he should demand his 'free' interval meter from the ESB, referencing the CER agreement from Dec 2007. He'll still have to pay for the installation though.

Assuming you have the generator up and running and connected to the Grid... will the ESB buy the spare electricity???

maniac101

Annatar wrote: »

Assuming you have the generator up and running and connected to the Grid... will the ESB buy the spare electricity???

I don't know, but I'm guessing no. The regulator isn't forcing electricity suppliers to buy micro-generated electricity yet. It's just ESB networks who are obliged to provide the connection. If the suppliers won't buy it, the excess will simply spill onto the grid. Worth noting that the ESB is now no longer the only electricity supplier to domestic consumers. Airtricity could also offer to buy your wind energy from you, but I don't believe that's high on their priorities list either. I suspect that buying small amounts of micro-generated electircity from domestic consumers is simply far more trouble than it's worth for these companies, unless the government subsidises it.