dead fish!!!!

flamingo12

hi everyone,
just thought i'd let you all know about a pet shop i was in a week ago, it called aquarium solutions in ashbourne. i got 3 guppies and 4 mollies off them last week and by the end of the week they were all dead as well as my existing pleco and 2 pearl gouami's!!!! i rang them and they more or less said tough luck....... now ive always got my fish and fish supplies from equipet and i find the staff very helpfull and friendly but have never had to complain about dead fish before, should i insist on them replacing my fish or just go elsewhere from now on?

The Artist

flamingo12 wrote: »

hi everyone,
just thought i'd let you all know about a pet shop i was in a week ago, it called aquarium solutions in ashbourne. i got 3 guppies and 4 mollies off them last week and by the end of the week they were all dead as well as my existing pleco and 2 pearl gouami's!!!! i rang them and they more or less said tough luck....... now ive always got my fish and fish supplies from equipet and i find the staff very helpfull and friendly but have never had to complain about dead fish before, should i insist on them replacing my fish or just go elsewhere from now on?

dont go back to aquarium solutions if it was me!

Tropheus

Do you have a test kit? Did you test your water?

If you only had 3 fish and then added another 7, it's likely that you got an ammonia spike. This may have nothing to do with the shop and more to do with your tank.

Fishyfreak

Hold on a second before you hang the shop out to dry. This is a very new shop but has an excellent reputation among fishkeepers so before we get carried away.......

Please answer the following questions:

What size is the tank? (Volume in litres)
How long is the tank running?
What type of filtration in the tank?
What are the water parameters in the tank (Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate)
What ph is your water?
What other tankmates have you in your tank?
How long did it take to get the fish home?
Were there any noticable warning signs from existing fish or new additions?
Were the fish helathy in the shop?

There are many reasons why new fish can die upon introduction to a new tank. The most common is that the water parameters in the tank were poor and the existing fish have built up an immunity to the high levels of Nitrite & Ammonia (they have basically got used to it) but it does long term damage to them. The introduction of new fish rapidally increases the bio-load on the filter and the tank crashes. All fish can't cope with the high pollution levels and die.

If you need any help or advice you should get onto www.irishfishforum.com

hadook

If the fish had died shortly after you got them home then you might be wondering if the shop had gotten in a dud batch or something but if they survive a week and then die I'd be looking at the tank. I'm only a novice fishkeeper but I test my water when things go wrong

My tank was murdering guppies in the beginning - the pH was too high. They'd last about 5-6 days and then I'd find them floating on the top. So I got the water tested and added some mopani wood and now I have some lovely (brown shaded) guppies.

sam44

Flamingo 12 :

I'd just stay away if i were u. The fish are nice - especially the marine ones, but too expensive. AND i bought my son a really expensive reptile there - a bearded dragon , spent ages wondering why he was grey , wasn't growing and didn't look anything like ones from other pet shops. then i found out they're supposed to have all kinds of lights and heaters so they will thrive. i wasn't told any of this when i was buying it!!!!!!

sam44

flamingo12 wrote: »

hi everyone,
just thought i'd let you all know about a pet shop i was in a week ago, it called aquarium solutions in ashbourne. i got 3 guppies and 4 mollies off them last week and by the end of the week they were all dead as well as my existing pleco and 2 pearl gouami's!!!! i rang them and they more or less said tough luck....... now ive always got my fish and fish supplies from equipet and i find the staff very helpfull and friendly but have never had to complain about dead fish before, should i insist on them replacing my fish or just go elsewhere from now on?

I know that place too. I used to buy a few of my fish at aquarium solutions, as it was local, but they were way too expensive - even pet stop are cheaper!!! I bought my 1st Tropical tank off Equipet in Navan , And I must say - I got Great information on setting up & maintaining my tank. I ran into trouble a few times at the begining and had to ring them, but they were more than happy to help me. I,ve recently bough my 2nd fish tank off equipet in ashbourne - a trigon 190. i'd been researching this tank for ages and they were selling it for over 200E cheaper than any where else!!!!!!!!!

I also buy all my fish there now , the staff there are also very helpful. I wanted a chiclid tank , and all i had to do was look up the names of the ones i wanted and They got them in for me.

Its a massive shop. They seem to have everything in it!! Defo worth a visit!!!

Fishyfreak

sam44 wrote: »

Flamingo 12 :

I'd just stay away if i were u. The fish are nice - especially the marine ones, but too expensive. AND i bought my son a really expensive reptile there - a bearded dragon , spent ages wondering why he was grey , wasn't growing and didn't look anything like ones from other pet shops. then i found out they're supposed to have all kinds of lights and heaters so they will thrive. i wasn't told any of this when i was buying it!!!!!!

Not wanting to hi-jack this thread but you (SAM44) have to take some responsibility here for not researching the requirements of an expensive and beautiful exotic animal. Give me a bloody break.............

sam44

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Not wanting to hi-jack this thread but you (SAM44) have to take some responsibility here for not researching the requirements of an expensive and beautiful exotic animal. Give me a bloody break.............

Ok, Well it was for my son - I asked them all about it - I was told all it needed was i vivarium and meal worms to eat and that was it. They did not sell books on bearded dragons. SURELY if a place is selling these animals they have to provide the customer with SOME vital information. I had loads of time to listen - but the guy working there obviously didn't have a bean of knowledge to pass on to me. I was the only person in the shop for the 20min or so it took to complete the sale so its not as if the guy was too busy to talk to me!!!!! Just pure Ignorant!

We've since bought everything the dragon needs in a shop up the road.:)

flamingo12

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Hold on a second before you hang the shop out to dry. This is a very new shop but has an excellent reputation among fishkeepers so before we get carried away.......

Please answer the following questions:

What size is the tank? (Volume in litres)
How long is the tank running?
What type of filtration in the tank?
What are the water parameters in the tank (Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate)
What ph is your water?
What other tankmates have you in your tank?
How long did it take to get the fish home?
Were there any noticable warning signs from existing fish or new additions?
Were the fish helathy in the shop?

There are many reasons why new fish can die upon introduction to a new tank. The most common is that the water parameters in the tank were poor and the existing fish have built up an immunity to the high levels of Nitrite & Ammonia (they have basically got used to it) but it does long term damage to them. The introduction of new fish rapidally increases the bio-load on the filter and the tank crashes. All fish can't cope with the high pollution levels and die.

If you need any help or advice you should get onto www.irishfishforum.com

there's no need to be so defensive about the shop!!!!!
heres the answer to all your questions
1. tank 180ltrs
2.running for over a year.
3.biological filtration.
4.all parameters are fine.amonia lowetc... tests done weekly.
5.ph is 7.5.
6.bala shark, 2 sword tails and 2 red eye tetra.(all thats left).
7.home in half hour.
8.my fish looked fine for first few days then gouramis started staying at top of tank, looked miserable,would'nt eat, pleco i just found floating and i had him for about 8 months.....
9.the fish i bought seemed fine but when i looked closer 2 of the mollies seemed to have popeye.thats what i was told by a more experienced fish keeper.
10.in fairness the fish in the shop looked ok but no one asked me what was in my tank already or any of the above questions you asked!!!!

and what annoyed me more than loss of fish was the attitude when i rang,
i know that not every fish will survive but a little manners but go a long way.....
needless to say they've lost my custom, plus i have other pets that need food ect so il go somewhere where staff will give me the time of day!!!!!

The Artist

flamingo12 wrote: »

there's no need to be so defensive about the shop!!!!!
heres the answer to all your questions
1. tank 180ltrs
2.running for over a year.
3.biological filtration.
4.all parameters are fine.amonia lowetc... tests done weekly.
5.ph is 7.5.
6.bala shark, 2 sword tails and 2 red eye tetra.(all thats left).
7.home in half hour.
8.my fish looked fine for first few days then gouramis started staying at top of tank, looked miserable,would'nt eat, pleco i just found floating and i had him for about 8 months.....
9.the fish i bought seemed fine but when i looked closer 2 of the mollies seemed to have popeye.thats what i was told by a more experienced fish keeper.
10.in fairness the fish in the shop looked ok but no one asked me what was in my tank already or any of the above questions you asked!!!!

and what annoyed me more than loss of fish was the attitude when i rang,
i know that not every fish will survive but a little manners but go a long way.....
needless to say they've lost my custom, plus i have other pets that need food ect so il go somewhere where staff will give me the time of day!!!!!

just one more thing to mention make sure you dont put the fish into the tank imediatly as the fish will die from shock.Place the bagged fish into tank for about 40 mins so that they adjust to the heat of the fish tank water.When time is ready dont pop the bag,slowly undo the knot(if difficult to open cause to tight use scissors and cut along the top of bag)Dont put the water content from the bag to realease the fish,net the fish out carefully from the bag into the tank.Put in a few drops of stress symme and stress coat plus water conditioner.

flamingo12

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Hold on a second before you hang the shop out to dry. This is a very new shop but has an excellent reputation among fishkeepers so before we get carried away.......

Please answer the following questions:

What size is the tank? (Volume in litres)
How long is the tank running?
What type of filtration in the tank?
What are the water parameters in the tank (Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate)
What ph is your water?
What other tankmates have you in your tank?
How long did it take to get the fish home?
Were there any noticable warning signs from existing fish or new additions?
Were the fish helathy in the shop?

There are many reasons why new fish can die upon introduction to a new tank. The most common is that the water parameters in the tank were poor and the existing fish have built up an immunity to the high levels of Nitrite & Ammonia (they have basically got used to it) but it does long term damage to them. The introduction of new fish rapidally increases the bio-load on the filter and the tank crashes. All fish can't cope with the high pollution levels and die.

If you need any help or advice you should get onto www.irishfishforum.com

there's no need to be so defensive about the shop!!!!!
heres the answer to all your questions
1. tank 180ltrs
2.running for over a year.
3.biological filtration.
4.all parameters are fine.amonia lowetc... tests done weekly.
5.ph is 7.5.
6.bala shark, 2 sword tails and 2 red eye tetra.(all thats left).
7.home in half hour.
8.my fish looked fine for first few days then gouramis started staying at top of tank, looked miserable,would'nt eat, pleco i just found floating and i had him for about 8 months.....
9.the fish i bought seemed fine but when i looked closer 2 of the mollies seemed to have popeye.thats what i was told by a more experienced fish keeper.
10.in fairness the fish in the shop looked ok but no one asked me what was in my tank already or any of the above questions you asked!!!!

and what annoyed me more than loss of fish was the attitude when i rang,
i know that not every fish will survive but a little manners but go a long way.....
needless to say they've lost my custom, plus i have other pets that need food ect so il go somewhere where staff will give me the time of day!!!!!

flamingo12

davey180 wrote: »

just one more thing to mention make sure you dont put the fish into the tank imediatly as the fish will die from shock.Place the bagged fish into tank for about 40 mins so that they adjust to the heat of the fish tank water.When time is ready dont pop the bag,slowly undo the knot(if difficult to open cause to tight use scissors and cut along the top of bag)Dont put the water content from the bag to realease the fish,net the fish out carefully from the bag into the tank.Put in a few drops of stress symme and stress coat plus water conditioner.

doh..... i think even the most amateur fish keeper knows that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Artist

flamingo12 wrote: »

doh..... i think even the most amateur fish keeper knows that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for me writting that was for others to see as well and most pet shop dont tell the new hobbyist that!Maybe you are being to amateurish to read my post:D:D

Richie B

Hey all,

New to this site, But just thought i'd contribute!! Sam44 - hope ur sons beardie is doin better now!! Recently bought a reptile myself , so i know how u feel. I Buy my dog food in the new place , equipet in ashbourne. Saw an amazing chinese water dragon in there that i had to have. I went off, did a bit of research and went back to buy it 3 days later. To be honest i was expecting to just pick up the stuff, buy it and leave as i didn't expect people would know all that much about them - I was so wrong!! The girl in there was great. Talked me through what i'd need and WHY i wolud need it and talked me through getting set up and was able to answer any questions i put to her. She spoke with me for ages - everything from ideal heat & humidity to Importance of calcium in his diet and showed me exactly how to handel him - absolutely great.

I hear theres an Equipet in Navan too, haven't been in it myself, but my friend says he buys everything for his horses in there, so it must be good too.

Good to see more reliable pet shops doin well.

Flamingo12 - they sell fish too - maybe try buyin your fish there!!!!:):)

Tropheus

you said that you test your water and that ammonia was "low". Ammonia should be 0. What do you mean by low?? Anything above zero can be deadly to fish.

The Artist

If the ph is 7 or higher you will have ammonia.

Originally Posted by flamingo12 5.ph is 7.5.

.5 to high!
popeye Treatment
The affected fish should be immediately taken out to be separately treated. It is difficult to specify a specific treatment unless the main cause is definitely known. Large daily water changes should help, if not Epsom salts has been used with good results to draw the fluid out. One tablespoon per 5 gallons of water for at least three days, longer if necessary. Epsom salts isn't really salt (sodium chloride) it is Magnesium Sulfate. If water quality is the problem, a 50 percent water change must be made as soon as possible.

flamingo12

cheers davey, il try that,
sorry for been so snappy earlier:)

The Artist

flamingo12 wrote: »

cheers davey, il try that,
sorry for been so snappy earlier:)

no problem flamingo12 we all have our bad days:D

Fishyfreak

davey180 wrote: »

If the ph is 7 or higher you will have ammonia.

.

Davey can you expand on this, left me a bit puzzled here mate. I'm aware that ammonia can be more toxic at higher ph but i didn't know that it was guaranteed to be present in the water at 7ph or above.

netopia789

ya my fish is 6 years old to 7years old its onr of this kais

Tropheus

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Davey can you expand on this, left me a bit puzzled here mate. I'm aware that ammonia can be more toxic at higher ph but i didn't know that it was guaranteed to be present in the water at 7ph or above.

This is rubbish. A high pH doesn't mean you will have ammonia. I have a pH of 8.1 in my African tank and Ammonia is 0. I'm not sure about ammonia being more toxic to fish in a higher pH, but it doesn't mean you will have ammonia.

As was mentioned earlier, get to www.irishfishkeepers.com or www.irishfishforum.com for expert advice.

The Artist

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Davey can you expand on this, left me a bit puzzled here mate. I'm aware that ammonia can be more toxic at higher ph but i didn't know that it was guaranteed to be present in the water at 7ph or above.

its was on this link
http://2bubbles.com/2bubbles_Article3.html

carwash_2006

I presume what led you to come to that conclusion is this

Whether the material turns into ammonium or ammonia depends on the ph level of the water. If the ph is under 7, you will have ammonium. If the ph is 7 or higher you will have ammonia. Note that ammonia test kits cannot differentiate between NH3 & NH4.

Basically what they are saying there is that ammonia is more dangerous if the ph is over 7, not that if the ph is over 7 you will automatically have ammonia.

To the OP, fish gulping at the top is a sign of a lack of oxygen in your tank, which can be caused by high levels of ammonia. If you ever see this you should immediately do a 10% water change and possibly add some salts to help them breathe easier (salts can help to improve gill function). Unfortunately, there is a good chance you may lose some of the fish after this has happened as the stress will lower their immune system and make them more prone to other diseases.

It actually doesn't sound like it is necessarily the shops fault that your fish died in this case. However I would be a little concerned by their attitude, I imagine if they had suggested you bring water for them to test and tried to help you work out what happened, perhaps saying that they might give you a few fish per grata if it was determined that nothing was wrong at your end you would now feel a lot happier, even if it turned out that it was your tank and you wouldn't get any replacement fis, at least you would now know more about what had gone wrong and have it less likelt to happen to you again.

That is the approach I would take on the matter if I were dealing with it anyway. It certainly doesn't cost one anything to try and help people learn a bit more, or if they did have to give you a few fish I'm sure it wouldn't have killed them.

Senor Willy

Not taking any sides but buying that many fish all at once in a bad idea and asking for trouble. As KS said.What do you mean by your Ammonia is low. It should be at zero. Shops do have a duty to provide customers with
some sort of information and feed back on the fish they buy but as someone who used to work in the fish trade, some customers come in as
real know alls and refuse to except anyone help.
I once told a guy who was buying Tropheus what to feed them,
He more or less told me I was talking from my anus. He came back 2 week later and told me all his fish were bloated.I told him to more or less **** off sure you know everything.

The out there specialises in Marines and is an excellent fishkeeper.
He often refused to sell me fish and Corals and always gave accurate info
on everything I bought. Maybe you just came accross the wrong way.

What I think he means is that Ammonia in water under a pH of 7.0 is Ammonium.
Contrary to belief it is still extremely toxic to fish.
I am not trying to offend you in any way so sorry if my post comes accross that way.

Jimkel

Fishyfreak wrote: »

Not wanting to hi-jack this thread but you (SAM44) have to take some responsibility here for not researching the requirements of an expensive and beautiful exotic animal. Give me a bloody break.............

ahem...my toughts exactly! Besides fish I also deal in reptiles and am so tired of people not doing proper research. If you go and buy a car in a car dealership you cannot expect them to teach you how to drive, and the fact that he says it was for his son!

lets assume his son is a child or young teen, can he really be expected to understand the needs of ectotherm's anyway? I personally explain everything about the care of any reptile I sell, and will not sell to someone who has no expereince unless they buy a book first or demonstrate to me some research has been carried out, And I never ever recommend reptiles as pets for children esp as gifts!

So the guy in the pet shop did not inform him of the requirements of the animal when he bought it, the fact that the beardie became ill in his care Is still his fault for not researching it's needs.

Yes guys when you buy an animal it is your responsability not the petshops, unless the animal was already ill or in poor health when you purchased it then its all on your head if you fail to provide adequate care.

nannygoat

new to this site:p
i agree with sam44...the person who sold him the dragon should have given him more information, even just the basics to start up, ya know like the lights you need etc, yes it is also up to the buyer to learn obout them, but sam44 u said there wasn't a book to buy?
just wondering y u assuming the son is a child or a young teen??
anyway i have a bearded dragon myself...his name is freddy....i have him seven months now:)...he has the most beautiful colours i have seen...baught him in navan..i was given all the information i needed to start off..but i did do my own research too..but was great to get information at the begining...

Fishyfreak

nannygoat wrote: »

new to this site:p
i agree with sam44...the person who sold him the dragon should have given him more information, even just the basics to start up, ya know like the lights you need etc, yes it is also up to the buyer to learn obout them, but sam44 u said there wasn't a book to buy?
just wondering y u assuming the son is a child or a young teen??
anyway i have a bearded dragon myself...his name is freddy....i have him seven months now:)...he has the most beautiful colours i have seen...baught him in navan..i was given all the information i needed to start off..but i did do my own research too..but was great to get information at the begining...

You don't impulse buy a bearded dragon!!!

You do your research first, buy books first, look on the net first, buy your vivarium first and ensure its set up properly before buying the animal and taking it home.

You don't go into a petshop and say: "Hello sir, i'd like a bearded dragon oh and by the way have you any books because i'm a complete muppet and don't know a thing about it's requirements".

javaboy

Fishyfreak wrote: »

You don't impulse buy a bearded dragon!!!

You do your research first, buy books first, look on the net first, buy your vivarium first and ensure its set up properly before buying the animal and taking it home.

You don't go into a petshop and say: "Hello sir, i'd like a bearded dragon oh and by the way have you any books because i'm a complete muppet and don't know a thing about it's requirements".

That's fine for most sensible people but we all know in reality that lots of people will impulse buy pets like beardies if they are allowed. The pet shop is in a position of responsibility and should do what it can to ensure that the animal is going to a good home.

I don't think the pet shop should have to give all the info but two or three questions would very quickly tell the staff member if he should or shouldn't sell to someone.

carwash_2006

A good pet shop will not sell an animal like a bearded dragon to someone on their first visit to the shop without checking that the person knows about the animal and preferably already keeps that animal.

Fishyfreak

You know and I know that the same idiot would just go to the next shop to buy his new toy there.

I 100% agree that the shop should ask some questions but it is ultimately up to the customer to research the animals requirements.

The problem with the fish and reptile trade is that there are too many muppets that think they know it all out there with more money than sense, if the want a new fashion accessory they will buy it regardless of the consequences.