Do expensive cables really make a difference?

py2006

Hi folks,

I am hoping to purchase a 37" - 40" Samsung in the near future. This will be mainly for PS3 and movie watching.

While I was in DID the other day I noticed HDMI cables for over €100 :eek: and I believe I saw scart cables for over €50 :eek:.

Do they really make all that much of a difference? Should I invest in these when I get my new tv?

Cheers

mathias

There have been many many threads on this already , for the details , do a search , but to sum up ,
No , in the case of HDMI expensive cables are a pure rip off , they make no difference whatsoever , get the cheapest one you can , argos have them for less than a tenner.

Scart is different though , they may well make a difference as they are analog as opposed to digital.

py2006

mathias wrote: »

There have been many many threads on this already , for the details , do a search , but to sum up ,
No , in the case of HDMI expensive cables are a pure rip off , they make no difference whatsoever , get the cheapest one you can , argos have them for less than a tenner.

Scart is different though , they may well make a difference as they are analog as opposed to digital.

Sorry, I should have done a search first!

Zonda999

The best value ones i've found are 10e in tesco.there 1.5metres long and there even gold plated.I know, i know that does'nt make any difference whatsoever but i have heard that if you often are plugging cables in and out, they are more durable.However i have mentioned this before in other threads and people have said that they could not find them.They dont seem to be in all stores.The 8e one in argos is only 0.75m so it'll be a stretch no matter what you use it for.I've seen some unbelievable prices for hdmi cables as well, e'g 3m "monster cable" for 200e in dixons:eek::eek:

stevenmu

As said, for HDMI it won't make any difference, for scart it probably will, but at the same time you probably won't notice the difference as much as you will notice your wallet being €50 lighter. There should be very reasonable cables available for much less, and unless you happen to be getting interference or some problems with an existing cable, IMHO it's usually not worth upgrading.

johnnyflav

Don't know who to believe with this one. There's a article in May edition of 'Home Cinema Choice' stating that "...there is a vast difference between a bog-standard HDMI v1.0 cable and one that is capable of carying an HDMI v1.3 feed..."

It's an article on AV mythbusting, relegating the statement "All HDMI cables are created equal..." to the fiction pile.

Wolff

As Johnnyflav states - there is an excellent article on this in that magazine

Also my own experience is that there are a lot of cheap hdmi cables out there that will carry a 720p or 1080i signal -

they struggle with 1080p and completely breakdown with HD sound and 1080p - so its cobblers to say its all digital and there is no difference.

That said the ones in DID etc are a rip off - you can get a 10m- 20m hdmi cable for that on Ebay !

mathias

Don't know who to believe with this one. There's a article in May edition of 'Home Cinema Choice' stating that "...there is a vast difference between a bog-standard HDMI v1.0 cable and one that is capable of carying an HDMI v1.3 feed..."

Absolute bull , I dont think this I know this , and that magazine is known for hyping up this type of article due to revenue and incentives from cable companies.

I have carried out these tests myself , with the best equipment for the job , so instead of repeating myself here , I say this ,

Point out any cable thats supposed to have an advantage and post it with the part number , chances are I have already done the test , and I'll post results ,

I stand by my results , there is absolutely no way there can be any kind of HDMI cable that is superior to any other kind in any way other than mechanical ... its impossible , and I point out that this is not an opinion , its a measureble concrete fact !!

Also my own experience is that there are a lot of cheap hdmi cables out there that will carry a 720p or 1080i signal -

they struggle with 1080p and completely breakdown with HD sound and 1080p - so its cobblers to say its all digital and there is no difference.

Name me the cables ... again I say rubbish , lots of cables were test for 1080i , that doesnt mean they wont carry 1080p , in fact even the most basic copper and plastic cable have more than enough bandwidth for 1080p , again I have concrete measureable results , and they are irrefutable , so the above quoted is all rubbish ,

HDMI cables are all the same , thats all there is too it , and anyone that says any different is/or has an interest in , selling cables or has been duped.

ongarite

Here here Mathias.
We have had this discussion to death on Playstation forum before with another person beside Mathias who works in the industry saying its complete BS.
A digital cable either works or not, no such thing as better sound, colour reproduction from X branded HDMI cable.

Wolff

Except in my own experience it isint - cheap cables i have bought from ebay breakup when they are switched to 1080p - this has happened to me on three seperate occasions - whilst the relatively cheap Tescos hdmi cable seems to work fine.

And whilst I would never buy a monster cable at those silly prices I would spend a bit extra to get a half decent cable

I dont work in the industry so I dont really care either way - and maybe the difference is mechanical

after all a fiat punto and a Porsche 911 are both cars

stevenmu

There is also no such thing as a HDMI V1.0 cable, a HDMI V1.3 cable (or a 1.1 or 1.2 for that matter). There is just HDMI cables, no versions. The whole v1.0, v1.3 thing is not a physical or electrical specification. It defines the protocols (i.e. the data formats) that devices connected via a HDMI cable will use to communicate.

As a completely made up example:
HDMI v1.0 may specify that:
10000001 signifies that the rest of the signal is a 480p video feed
10000010 signifies thet the rest of the signal is a 720p video feed
10000011 signifies that the rest of the signal is a 1080p video feed

HDMI v1.3 includes all of HDMI v1.1 plus:
10000100 signifies that the rest of the signal is a 1080p deep colour
11000100 signifies 1080p deep colour with uncompressed audio.

etc.. etc..

That's completely made up of course, but the general idea is correct, and that is that all a cable does is transmit 1s and 0s, all the different versions of HDMI do is define how those 1s and 0s are intepreted and what combinations are valid in what circumstances. A cable that can transmit 00000000 can transmit 11111111 just as easily, and any value in between.

johnnyflav

mathias wrote: »

Absolute bull , I dont think this I know this , and that magazine is known for hyping up this type of article due to revenue and incentives from cable companies.

Of course you need to take everything you read in these magazines with a pinch of salt, but HCC isn't one of the bad offenders for hyping to generate revenue (unlike What Sony Hi-Fi Home Cinema)

You obviously know what you're talking about. I'm of the impression that digital is digital and 1's and 0's are difficult to mis-interpret, but poorly constructed cables can lose data even with digital signals.

mathias

I'm of the impression that digital is digital and 1's and 0's are difficult to mis-interpret, but poorly constructed cables can lose data even with digital signals.

When the cable is poorly constructed , indeed it does lose data , but this is usually catastrophic , ( complete break up of sound or picture ) in which case the cable performs just as bad with any signal , 720 right up to 1080 , thats the mechanical side of the argument.
( By mechanical I mean good solid solder connections and well fitting plugs , the vast majority of cables fit this bill , I am not talking about materials or shielding or any else like that)

Its the " works or it doesnt " part of the spec. Its never subtle and can be exchanged straight away as a faulty product.

Likewise with long cable runs , and by long were talking over and above 15 meters , in this case its attenuation thats the problem , and once the attenuation causes the threshold to fall below the level that 1's and 0's cannot be distinguished , then all signal types become corrupted , not just 1080p , which is a pile of trash the likes of monster and QED have come up with to rip off unsuspecting customers , and even with long lengths ,with a proper signal boost ( like the kind available in most switches ) the cable will work just as well as any other.

Indeed some equipment is able to boost the signal itself at the receiving end.

Regardless , most people are looking for cables around the 1 - 3 meter mark , and at this length , once its mechanically sound , there is no difference , and the cheapest one that you can find , will do the job , and thats guaranteed.

As far as anyone making claims of better picture or sound , well thats the time to walk out of the shop , because its totally impossible , the code either gets from a to b or it doesnt , theres no way any cable can change the code for a better result.

Slaphead07

I'd always argue that in the world of audio hifi cable quality is extremely important but when it comes to HDMI (or optical) there's very little difference once you're looking at reasonably well constructed cables. I'd shy away from the very cheapest but I'd stay even further from the dearest.

Although the notion that it's digital and all just “1”s and “0”s is a tad simplistic. If that were true then all CD or DVD players would perform the same – they clearly don't.

Does the length of a HDMI cable affect the quality at all? At some stage I'm going to have to get a 15mt length.

mathias

Although the notion that it's digital and all just “1”s and “0”s is a tad simplistic. If that were true then all CD or DVD players would perform the same – they clearly don't.

In the case of any player or amp its internal electronics , i.e how it reads the content and presents it for the TV or amp as the case may be , that can indeed make a difference in quality due to quality of electronics ( DA converters ) and so on .... different players have different setups , laser alignments and accuracy , bit interpretation techniques , and a host of other features that make the final bitstream at the output different from other players !

But thats not what were talking about here at all , what were talking about here is the cable , in which case it really is just a case of 1's and 0's and getting them from A to B , so it cannot affect quality.

In terms of getting the signal from the output or source to its sink or destination it really is black and white , either it works or it doesnt when it comes to digital. In the digital realm , when it comes to cables whatever goes in comes out the same , the cable cannot affect the quality. All that can happen is that the signal doesnt make it , in which case the output is a disaster , there will never be slightly better colours or nuances in sound as a result of the cable when the cable is digital.

Slaphead07

I should have specified "signal".

I agree 100% Mathias but that's a perception I've come across many many times.The belief, by normally intelligent people, that it's that simple.

GrumPy

mathias wrote: »

In the case of any player or amp its internal electronics , i.e how it reads the content and presents it for the TV or amp as the case may be , that can indeed make a difference in quality due to quality of electronics ( DA converters ) and so on .... different players have different setups , laser alignments and accuracy , bit interpretation techniques , and a host of other features that make the final bitstream at the output different from other players !

But thats not what were talking about here at all , what were talking about here is the cable , in which case it really is just a case of 1's and 0's and getting them from A to B , so it cannot affect quality.

In terms of getting the signal from the output or source to its sink or destination it really is black and white , either it works or it doesnt when it comes to digital. In the digital realm , when it comes to cables whatever goes in comes out the same , the cable cannot affect the quality. All that can happen is that the signal doesnt make it , in which case the output is a disaster , there will never be slightly better colours or nuances in sound as a result of the cable when the cable is digital.

Man, you know your stuff and have provided me with much useful information in the past, but you gotta learn not to put gaps between words and comma's. It makes your very interesting, accurate and intelligent input very hard to read!

Raiser

Irish GrumPy wrote: »

Man, you know your stuff and have provided me with much useful information in the past, but you gotta learn not to put gaps between words and comma's. It makes your very interesting, accurate and intelligent input very hard to read!

Mathias am grateful that you've taken the time to post your expertise - I'd prefer non-standard punctuation to pseudo av-heads touting €200 snake-oil cables any day

- Thanks for the advice.