Leaving certificate useful for life???

Nato!

Right i want to see what other people think are the sucjects on the leaving cert useful for life ???

Doctor DooM

Nato! wrote: »

Right i want to see what other people think are the sucjects on the leaving cert useful for life ???

Not being smart, but it intends entirely what you want to do with your life. As I went into computers eventually, Maths was useful, for example.

K4t

Maths - I hate it but yeah, develops your problem solving skills and, especially if you're doing higher level, it instills a good work ethic in you.

English - I love it, Just love it (Kevin Keegan ). Depends a lot, like most subjects, on the teacher though.
Some teachers just teach towards the LC and just give out pages and pages of notes etc. That isn't education in my humble opinion but most students like it because they get the points.

My english teacher at present is more unorthodox and tells stories and refers to different events outside of the cirriculum to give us a better understanding of english etc. Shocking to some I know :eek:

Irish - Pointless :rolleyes: dead language and with the huge influx of immigrants and poles etc. it's becoming forgotten.
In a few years, we will probably be a single European state so it will be totally forgotten.

It should not be compulsory and it is an absolute disgrace that students who do the LC through Irish get bonus points.

They are the core subjects.

I suppose whatever you're interested in will serve you best after school whether you go to College or learn a trade

Fremen

If you're doing a science subject in college, or engineering or something related, maths is.
If you're doing an arts/humanities type course, english probably is.

Having said that, it's pretty damn hard to quantify. Overall, an interest in what you're doing is more important than any grade.

Edit: In terms of "life" skills, being to analyse newspapers critically is pretty important. It's pretty tough to generalise beyond that, though, since different people live such different lives.

Nato!

yea i know but there is no practical lessons thought such as how to motivate yourself or how to interact with people

eZe^

From my experience I think it makes a difference definitely from a knowledge stand point. Its interesting to know how antibiotics work and why you should take the entire course of them. Its also interesting to understand how a car engine works and what not, being able to understand how co ordinates for a missile are calculated.


It may not actually change any personality traits or life skills, but I really started to appreciate how much studying the 3 science subjects and applied math has broadened my understanding of the how things work. Im sure this is the same regardless of your subject choice.

Nato!

Good point well the thing that got this into my head was that I have just started reading "how to win friends and influence people" and I am just wondering why don't they teach this sort of thing in school

carlowboy

K4t wrote: »

Irish - Pointless :rolleyes: dead language and with the huge influx of immigrants and poles etc. it's becoming forgotten.
In a few years, we will probably be a single European state so it will be totally forgotten.

It should not be compulsory and it is an absolute disgrace that students who do the LC through Irish get bonus points.

No no no no no no. Single European state???? What are you taking??

How is it a disgrace that people who sit the leaving in irish get a bonus. Also, the bonus does not account for much at all if you get a high grade so for example with the A1s I got, I actually got practically no bonus.

Mark200

carlowboy wrote: »

How is it a disgrace that people who sit the leaving in irish get a bonus. Also, the bonus does not account for much at all if you get a high grade so for example with the A1s I got, I actually got practically no bonus.

Because you're getting a higher grade in a subject that has nothing to do with Irish, just because you're good at irish.
Eg. If you and your friend get exactly the same at geography, but your friend happens to be good at irish too, they get a higher grade than you. It's not fair at all.


Maths should be useful, because I'm going into computer science hopefully.
I enjoy English, but I don't think it will be much use. If I was good at German it might be useful, but I'm not.

life_is_music

Irish - necessary for talking about foreign people behind their backs. If you dont like Irish, you know where England is!

Maths - probelm solving skills etc...

English - this ones fairly obvious

Physics - increases your understanding of th physical world

French - waste of time if you hate france like I do :P

geography - fairly handy for anyone who likes to travel

Technical Drawing - meh

ZorbaTehZ

Mark200 wrote: »

Because you're getting a higher grade in a subject that has nothing to do with Irish, just because you're good at irish.
Eg. If you and your friend get exactly the same at geography, but your friend happens to be good at irish too, they get a higher grade than you. It's not fair at all.

You make is sound as though you can simply choose at any time to sit the exam in Irish, which is not the case at all. It is very much more difficult to sit an exam through Irish not least all the terms that you need to memorise. Notwithstanding the fact that its not even that much more of a "higher mark" you'll be getting if you sit it through irish, especially considering the amount of work involved in being able to do so.

carlowboy

Mark200 wrote: »

Because you're getting a higher grade in a subject that has nothing to do with Irish, just because you're good at irish.
Eg. If you and your friend get exactly the same at geography, but your friend happens to be good at irish too, they get a higher grade than you. It's not fair at all.


Maths should be useful, because I'm going into computer science hopefully.
I enjoy English, but I don't think it will be much use. If I was good at German it might be useful, but I'm not.

Well it is fair considering there is no text books for almost all subjects in irish so you have to do the extra work to get and learn the irish for key words in geography etc. Take that into consideration.

KeyLimePie

K4t wrote: »

Irish - Pointless :rolleyes: dead language and with the huge influx of immigrants and poles etc. it's becoming forgotten.
In a few years, we will probably be a single European state so it will be totally forgotten.

I disagree

And i think all the subjects i'm doing are worthwhile cause I did pick them :P
But i'd say chemistry is gonna turn into a hobby since im going into art for college

K4t

KeyLimePie wrote: »

I disagree

And i think all the subjects i'm doing are worthwhile cause I did pick them :P
But i'd say chemistry is gonna turn into a hobby since im going into art for college

Fine but it's the truth.

Only 1 out of 4 Irish classes is a higher level class in 5th year in my school and there's only about 20 students in the class out of over 90 in the year.

The ones in my ordinary class do nothing in class except talk and fling papers and the teacher is the most uninterested of all having to teach a bored and outdated cirriculum to even more bored students.

Thank you.

1huge1

life_is_music wrote: »

Irish - necessary for talking about foreign people behind their backs. If you dont like Irish, you know where England is!

Oh for god sake don't be so narrow minded,
SO your point is we should spend years learning a language so we can talk behind people's back, wow thats time wll spent.

My point is it should be a option, that way people who want to do it CAN do it while people who don't want to do it don't have to.

Its unfair because some people's brains are more geared towards maths and suffer from having to do Irish.

I dislike Irish myself but that is not because I find it hard but more that it doesn't interest me and as K4T said the cirriculum really needs to be updated.

Overheal

An extremely large number of doors shut to you without posession of a complete leaving cert.

However if you're asking say, if you were lost in the woods with a shoestring and a compass, and a bear was tracking you, would your Leaving Cert skills save you? I'm guessing: no.

Most of what you learn has real-world application however. You need to experience life after school to find most of it.

KeyLimePie

K4t wrote: »

Fine but it's the truth.

Only 1 out of 4 Irish classes is a higher level class in 5th year in my school and there's only about 20 students in the class out of over 90 in the year.

The ones in my ordinary class do nothing in class except talk and fling papers and the teacher is the most uninterested of all having to teach a bored and outdated cirriculum to even more bored students.

Thank you.

Well it's not that it's an outdated cirriculim it's just that it's a bad one

And I'm pretty sure if you went to any of the gaeltachts and told them it was a dead language they'd disagree with you too

Now that we're leaving school and maturing and forgetting about that awful cirriculim do you ever think "hey i rather like this language and I want to learn it properly"

Saying it is a dead language is a rather extreme statement

1huge1 wrote: »

Oh for god sake don't be so narrow minded,
SO your point is we should spend years learning a language so we can talk behind people's back, wow thats time wll spent.

My point is it should be a option, that way people who want to do it CAN do it while people who don't want to do it don't have to.

Its unfair because some people's brains are more geared towards maths and suffer from having to do Irish.

I dislike Irish myself but that is not because I find it hard but more that it doesn't interest me and as K4T said the cirriculum really needs to be updated.

when irish is optional is when the educational department admits it's failed

change the cirriculim then if that doesnt work make it optional

JC 2K3

1huge1 wrote: »

Its unfair because some people's brains are more geared towards maths and suffer from having to do Irish.

The very fact that different people find different subjects easier is exactly the reason why they should be forced to do other subjects.

If you only foster what someone is naturally good at, you create a very narrow minded person, which isn't ideal.

In theory, Maths, English and Irish are perfect as compulsory subjects. The problem is that most students just learn off English notes and the Irish curriculum REALLY needs to be changed.

Broad Education ftw, you can specialise in college (though, even then many colleges make you do one class which is totally different to your course).

As for K4t, it's not really worth arguing with someone who thinks "ah sure Europe will be superstate in a few years".

KeyLimePie

JC 2K3 wrote: »

The problem is that most students just learn off English notes

i disagree
i've never studied english and i got an A in my junior cert and an A2 in my pres just there

And of course some people are not able for languages which is why we've ordinary level but just because you're in ordinary level doesnt mean you can't manage dia duit conas ata tu, nach bhfuil se te innui

JC 2K3

KeyLimePie wrote: »

i disagree
i've never studied english and i got an A in my junior cert and an A2 in my pres just there

We discussed this in another thread. It's not the norm.

I barely studied Maths and got an A1, that's not the norm either, doesn't make me disagree with the fact that most students who do well in maths study very hard.

KeyLimePie

JC 2K3 wrote: »

We discussed this in another thread. It's not the norm.

I barely studied Maths and got an A1, that's not the norm either, doesn't make me disagree with the fact that most students who do well in maths study very hard.

I didn't study for my irish ordinary level pre and got a B3

What person can't say "chuaigh claire shuas an chrann mar ta se craicealta"

K4t

I don't care if God himself came down and told me right now, students who do the LC through Irish should not get bonus points. It's completely ludicrous.

I consider myself very good at english so if I 'choose' to do the LC through more advanced english should I get bonus points :rolleyes: etc.

As for Irish being a dead language, yes it is, and it is mainly due to how it is taught in schools.

The way it is taught makes students resent the subject instead of wanting to learn it.

Irish is spoken in the Gaeltact's, wherever they are!!!!

It's not spoken in Ireland or everyday life, nevermind europe and the rest of the world.

It should not be compulsory. It doesn't prepare you in any way for life after the LC in the way maths does and it isn't even spoken among ordinary working class irish people for god's sake.

JC 2K3

There're barely any bonus points going for it though, it's not a big deal.

Also, were a proper curriculum taught properly, learning Irish would give you skills to think about communicating in a completely different way, ie. through a different language, and would make it far easier to pick up other languages. This is exactly the same as how maths "prepares you for life". It's not like most people will ever use integration or differentiation or the standard deviation in their daily adult lives, but on the whole it gives you a problem solving ability and enables you to think more critically. The same way you might not speak much Irish in your adult daily life, but the concepts of how languages work, where words originated and how ideas can be expressed differently through different languages enable you to think critically from another angle and gives you more of an understanding of how people communicate.

JSK 252

JC 2K3 wrote: »

There're barely any bonus points going for it though, it's not a big deal.

Also, were a proper curriculum taught properly, learning Irish would give you skills to think about communicating in a completely different way, ie. through a different language, and would make it far easier to pick up other languages. This is exactly the same as how maths "prepares you for life". It's not like most people will ever use integration or differentiation or the standard deviation in their daily adult lives, but on the whole it gives you a problem solving ability and enables you to think more critically. The same way you might not speak much Irish in your adult daily life, but the concepts of how languages work, where words originated and how ideas can be expressed differently through different languages enable you to think critically from another angle and gives you more of an understanding of how people communicate.

Very true...

K4t

JC 2K3 wrote: »

There're barely any bonus points going for it though, it's not a big deal.

Also, were a proper curriculum taught properly, learning Irish would give you skills to think about communicating in a completely different way, ie. through a different language, and would make it far easier to pick up other languages. This is exactly the same as how maths "prepares you for life". It's not like most people will ever use integration or differentiation or the standard deviation in their daily adult lives, but on the whole it gives you a problem solving ability and enables you to think more critically. The same way you might not speak much Irish in your adult daily life, but the concepts of how languages work, where words originated and how ideas can be expressed differently through different languages enable you to think critically from another angle and gives you more of an understanding of how people communicate.

Yep, I agree with you to an extent mate.

If Irish were taught the way french is taught instead of learning off notes for poems and stories it would certainly help us learn other languages.

JC 2K3

KeyLimePie wrote: »

What person can't say "chuaigh claire shuas an chrann mar ta se craicealta"

The type of person who doesn't believe in guys having girls' names?

Imallin9989

I think Irish is extremely important.. we should be proud of our culture and history... we would be all speaking irish only for the english but lets not go there!:D

Many countries speak their own language E.g Holland
and their economy is one of the best in EU.. I hate when people hate irish Its who we are !!!:(:(

KnifeWRENCH

Leaving Cert Irish is f**k all use to you. Unless you get attacked by a crazy man who says he'll kill you unless you can explain traits of a bealoideas sliocht. That scenario, however, is rather improbable.
It should be taught in the same way as French - you actually learn about the culture of France aswell, and the focus is on speaking/learning the language rather than just learning off texts.
Irish should also be optional.

Leaving Cert English is of no use...you read things, you write things. It's not like you learn much practical information.

I'm doing Science at college, so Maths, Physics and Biology were of great use to me. However, for someone who goes on to do English or History or something they wouldn't be particularly useful.

It all depends on where your interests lie, really

KnifeWRENCH

KeyLimePie wrote:

What person can't say "chuaigh claire shuas an chrann mar ta se craicealta"

JC 2K3 wrote: »

The type of person who doesn't believe in guys having girls' names?

LMAO!! Oh you walked right into that one, Key

life_is_music

1huge1 wrote: »

Oh for god sake don't be so narrow minded,
SO your point is we should spend years learning a language so we can talk behind people's back, wow thats time wll spent.

My point is it should be a option, that way people who want to do it CAN do it while people who don't want to do it don't have to.

Its unfair because some people's brains are more geared towards maths and suffer from having to do Irish.

I dislike Irish myself but that is not because I find it hard but more that it doesn't interest me and as K4T said the cirriculum really needs to be updated.

You obviously didn't detect the sarcasm.... But I still think Irish should be compulsory! Its one of the few things that differentiates us from the UK. Its part of our culture, heritage etc...

I will admit that the course is ****e but it has already been changed! There's 40% going for the oral in a few years.

Talking Irish is a great laff! I was at an oral course yesterday and it's really cool that we could talk fluently to each other in Irish!

K4t wrote: »

Only 1 out of 4 Irish classes is a higher level class in 5th year in my school and there's only about 20 students in the class out of over 90 in the year.

1/4 of my year are doing honours maths...... Should we make maths optional???

tolosenc

Every year this thread descends into a Gaeilge bashing thread...

Why not ditch English alltogether. Sure you can already speak it, and with crazy amount of critical textual analysis on the Irish course, you'd learn those (vital;)) skills, and to express yourself in another language.

Why don't we follow Holland's model? Speak our own language, and then English at a high level too.

KeyLimePie

square_igloo wrote: »

LMAO!! Oh you walked right into that one, Key

I meant to i said it in my pre and got full marks

And I refuse to believe that Irish is a dead language
It's dead to you but not to me :P

KnifeWRENCH

KeyLimePie wrote: »

I meant to i said it in my pre and got full marks

And I refuse to believe that Irish is a dead language
It's dead to you but not to me :P

Ah I never said Irish was dead...it's not dead yet. But the current curriculum is slowly killing it.
Irish is dying a slow, painful death...I'd hate to seet the language gone forever but it's kinda inevitible

Apparently, there will eventually be only 4 languages spoken in the world: English, Spanish, Russian and Mandarin.

KeyLimePie

square_igloo wrote: »

Ah I never said Irish was dead...it's not dead yet. But the current curriculum is slowly killing it.
Irish is dying a slow, painful death...I'd hate to seet the language gone forever but it's kinda inevitible

Apparently, there will eventually be only 4 languages spoken in the world: English, Spanish, Russian and Mandarin.

Ah now that wasn't aimed at you

But i think i'd agree with you on that, but don't forget french! I don't think they'll give up on that too easily

SugarRush

If one can argue that

1huge1 wrote: »

Its unfair because some people's brains are more geared towards maths and suffer from having to do Irish.

then what about those of us who are more geared for languages, get really good grades and have to suffer Maths?

rainbowtrout

square_igloo wrote: »

Leaving Cert English is of no use...you read things, you write things. It's not like you learn much practical information.

I'm doing Science at college, so Maths, Physics and Biology were of great use to me. However, for someone who goes on to do English or History or something they wouldn't be particularly useful.

It all depends on where your interests lie, really

Are reading and writing not useful skills? I would imagine at the very least even if you were not interested in the Prose, Poetry and Drama aspects of the course that it would have improved your vocabulary and that you learned how to express yourself orally and on paper in properly constructed sentences that don't resort to textspeak.

I did science at college and exams were still written in English, essays and reports etc are in English and your thesis will be a long report where hopefully some of the skills you learned previously will come in useful, like constructing a grammatically correct sentence.

ian.f

I think all the Leaving Cert subjects are important... They're the only thing in the country that can get you into college and let you get the job you want... Sounds pretty important to me