Ethical question

J.R.

Last weekend while taking the dogs for a ramble we noticed a fox running from heavy cover, obviously disturbed by the dogs........too far for a shot!

As we approached the area where he departed the cover the cocker began to trail frantically, stopping under a bush and staring up. When we examined the bush we could see a hen pheasant at head height in the bush badly injured and freshly mauled.....obviously attacked by the fox. As we discussed what to do for a moment she shuffled along branches and was out of sight in an instant. She couldn't be found in the thick cover.

My question is:
what do you do if you find a protected species badly injured or in obvious pain? Do you humanely put it out of its misery - like this pheasant or the peppered deer, in another post, if found alive and suffering?

Where do you stand if approached and incident is witnessed? Accused of shooting a hen pheasant out of season? poacher???

I, personally, feel an animal (protected or not) should not be allowed suffer unduly, but could one end up in a scenario of losing firearms cert while trying to prove that the act was commited on grounds of acting humane & eliminating suffering?

tiny-nioclas

i think most people would help the injured animal and put it out of its misery?

rrpc

You could always wring its neck

Or alternatively, bring it to a vet.

meathstevie

Put it out of it's misery, in or out of season makes no difference since the damage was done allready.

pullandbang

Wring it's kneck, bring it home and fry it up! I did it a couple of times already out of season over the past few years.

triggerpull

rrpc wrote: »

You could always wring its neck

Or alternatively, bring it to a vet.[/quote
+1

thehair

meathstevie wrote: »

Put it out of it's misery, in or out of season makes no difference since the damage was done allready.

yes + 1 any injured animal in or out of season. horse broken leg.yes
dog-yes cat-yes and so on any animal.

pestshooter7

yea iv put a few hares out of their misery after being hit with cars, very common arround here! Poor devils just stand and look at the lights! Best thing is to wring the neck, quick turn and pull!

Gunter Mauser

+4's with pestshooter7

Grizzly 45

Put it out of it's misery.The correct and humane thing to do.

Gunter Mauser

Do the job well if it's worth doing at all at all!:mad:

maglite

kill and leave,

the fox put enough effort in he should get the rewards

Gunter Mauser

Hair today gone tomorrow:o

stevoman

maglite wrote: »

kill and leave,

the fox put enough effort in he should get the rewards

very good point maglite. Thats what i was thinking too. Dispatch he creature humanly to put it out of its misery, but i would defintily leave the carcass theire and let nature do it work.
On the point above about the hares wounded on the road, i would also dispatch these humanly and leave the carcass neaby where other creatures can pick off it.................... or bring it on and try call in magpies with it with the shotgun later on!!!!

fathersymes

definitely put it out of its misery AND leave it for the fox

meathstevie

And be there when he comes to collect.

Kat1170

I would consider it far more unethical to leave any animal to suffer.

Grizzly 45

Why waste good roadkill and pheasents??:D Have had plenty of free dinner from the roadkill of dopey pheasents who get clipped by cars.If the critter isnt too badly banged up you should reuse ,recycle.:D

irish setter

personally id never interfere with nature. if it was hit with a car or shot by a poacher or some other man made problem id def put it out of its misery but not if its natural. also animals have an amazing ability to recover so id give it a chance. if you were injured in a car crash would you rather suffer a bit and recover or just be put down??

revan23

if it is too badly damaged to heal and therefore create more pheasants, then there is nothing to be gained by keeping it alive.

meathstevie

The biggest hare that ever made it to my oven was fresh roadkill. Clipped by the car about 50 yards ahead of me one night at the front gate of Intel in Leixlip believe it or not. The fringes of industrial estates are always good areas to look out for roadkill if you're looking for something to bait a trap with for example. A lot of those places really are small nature reserves Ballycoolin in Blanchardstown for example has a rake of hares and rabbits in it. A couple of ponds in it are frequented by mallards and I've seen a fair few badgers roaming around there as well.

ivanthehunter

irish setter wrote: »

personally id never interfere with nature. if it was hit with a car or shot by a poacher or some other man made problem id def put it out of its misery but not if its natural. also animals have an amazing ability to recover so id give it a chance. if you were injured in a car crash would you rather suffer a bit and recover or just be put down??

Well said...
i wouldnt worry about it recovering or it suffering, if it was caused by nature then let nature take it course. If anything, i'd be inclined to fell a bit of sympathy for the fox and i leave him to wait for his dinner to bleed out..

Mellor

I think people aren't giving this enough thought, especially from the view of the appliction of these ethics.

Firstly, I don't think it is right to leave the animal suffering if it will eventually die.
I also don't think it is wrong to put an animal out of its misery out of season.


But, I don't know if I would do it if I came across the chance in the field.
I know this appears to contradict what I said above, but I have good reason, or at least I believe it to be.

1. If somebody sees you shooting a phesant, out of season, or a hen at anytime, you may get into trouble. They then have to believe you story of the injuried bird and the fox. This could be alot of explaining, and it not a situation I want to be in.
   
2. I would definatly leave the bird for the fox, half because it was his kill. And half because, I don't want to be seen carrying a protected bird. Say you don't have a game bag, so keep the bird on a strap on the gear bag, on the way home you and the bird are seen by another member of the club. He says nothing about the hen, you go home and eat it hen for dinner, a few days later, a ranger calls about the hen (reported), its harder to explain the injuried bird story without the evidence.
   
3. The above are awkward situations, but should be ok once you explain. Once they know what hapened and believe it, few would have a problem ith it.
   But the main reason that I decide to leave it is because you never know what will happen. The hen looks badly injuried, but might survive. Obviously some cases will be obvious where the bird is mauled and has no hope, but alot of cases will be touch and go. It comes down to opinion.
   What if you decided to dispatch it, and you're seen, and the ranger (or whoever) after seeing the bird thinks it would of lived. An argument, brought to a vet, and he thinks it might of lived. Suddenly your in a problem area.

Grizzly 45

Funnily enough on the Continent,if you are a hunter,you will be prosecuted for not dispatching the injured animal quickly and humanely.Even in a non hunting situation.IE you come upon a road accident and you have a hunting knife and there is an injured deer besidethe road.you have the right to dispatch it,within reason of personal saftey of you and others.Other reason hunters are allowed to carry personal handguns,especially if your reserve is cut through with motorways.

Dealing with too many possibilites there Mellor.Even if the ranger did show up on your door and you admitted eating the bird.His body of evidence is gone literally. No case to answer or prove. Hens do get shot accidently even in season.Abit difficult to determine wether a high bird is a cock or hen.
The only person you have to answer anything to Re killing the bird is proably a Garda or ranger,not anyone else.... least of all a member of the public.Even then to a Garda it is name and address,and unless he arrests you and cautions you.Then you dont have to say anything.
You do have the advantage of claiming that you are a hunter and that in your Expert opinion the animal was badly injured to survive.It does count as well.Abit different if you are caught with a half dozen birds mind.:)

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The only person you have to answer anything to Re killing the bird is proably a Garda or ranger,not anyone else.... least of all a member of the public.Even then to a Garda it is name and address,and unless he arrests you and cautions you.Then you dont have to say anything.

Well that depends really, if another member of the gunclub asks about the hen, it would be stupid not to tell them.
Anyway, I was mostly playing devils advocate above, if I was sure there was nobody around (pretty easy to determine), and that if could not survive, I would give the bird a swift death, but if there were people around then I personally would kill it, least not carry it off. Just as I don't want to be in a situation were I could be accused of anything, or would have to defend actions that were completely in the right. Can't afford to fall out with anyone now that laand here is so scarce.

flanum

if there was somebody within earshot, then just call them over to act as witness/give second opinion!

Grizzly 45

Your Bad Flanum... if it turns out to be Jon and Jane Townie,who are card carrying members of ICABS.:D

It wasn't me!

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Your Bad Flanum... if it turns out to be Jon and Jane Townie,who are card carrying members of ICABS.:D

You give them a first-hand lesson in the harshness of nature, to be honest. Show them it's in utter misery, beyond hope of survival, and then give it the only aid and kindness you can.

Grizzly 45

Whereupon the proably both swoon from the shock of seeing this cruel act.Run off for therapy, for witnessing such a horiffic act and get onto Aideen Yourell to rant and rave on every letter colum and radio show in the land. ya just cant win with those people.

ivanthehunter

As bad as any bunch of "Do gooders" i ever seen:rolleyes: