Reliability of old/used 4x4s (Land Rover vs. Mitsubishi vs. Jeep)

Stoned Hippy

My friend are currently looking for a car for an overland trip to Mongolia this summer. We have about 2-3 grand to spend.
Looking on eBay, adverts, autotrader etc has showen us that there are a large selection of vehicles of various ages out there with the majority of suitable ones (by being 4x4s under 3g) being Land Rover Discoveries (a few on ebay for about 2g, between 1990 - 1996 with NCTs and over 160,000 miles), Mitsubishi Pajeros and Jeep Cherokees (both with over 100,000 miles around 1996).

Basically how reliable is a 12 year old Land Rover Discovery with over 160,000 miles? I know Defenders and their rep well but does this extend to the Discovery too?

Also I know nothing about Mitsubishis and Jeeps for their reliability? We're not planning on doing any mental off roading so all three should be capable, reliability is the real concern.

We're planning on doing about 10,000 miles and then giving the car to charity.

Any advice is appreciated!

BeardyGit

Wouldn't touch a 2-3k Disco for an 'overland' trip. It won't be up to the job.

I'm a landy fan, but they're not up to the task in that kind of condition - Not at that budget.

Stick with something Japanese - An old Nissan/Mitsy pickup with a hardtop and some DIY work would be a better option I'd think at that budget.... You might even be lucky enough to buy a rough but mechanically sound 2.4 diesel Toyota hilux for that kind of money too, and it'll be serviceable en-route if required.

Gil

Stoned Hippy

Interesting. I'd obviously love an old Hilux (have driven some in other parts of the world and they're simply awesome) but I haven't been able to find one for under 5g. Depreciation doesn't seem to be too high on them!

Now this would be perfect! http://cgi.ebay.ie/TOYOTA-LANDCRUISER-AMAZON-VX-4-2-LIMITED-MANUAL-SUV_W0QQitemZ290219975440QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18290QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A pity it's already at our limit and hasn't met its' reserve yet though...

peasant

To Mongolia you say ..that means travelling through mostly former Soviet territory, yes?

Then this is what you need:


http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?isSearchRequest=true&scopeId=C&country=&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&lang=en&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=14400&makeModelVariant1.modelId=12&maxPrice=&minFirstRegistrationDate=&maxMileage=&fuel=&zipcode=&zipcodeRadius=&doSearch.x=66&doSearch.y=14

at least you will get spares (and a mechanic that has worked on one before) at every corner.

because, let's face it ...a budget of 3 grand and reliability don't really go together ...no matter what make of car.

Stoned Hippy

How cool would that be? Unfortunately my travelling companion has to be back in time for exams and the old "stuck in the "£$% end of Mongolia in a broken down/burnt out Lada" excuse is probably over used. Also there were suprisingly few (read: none) results on autotrader for Ladas...

Reliability is all relative! And Irish standards are high, I a 94 Ford Fiesta that had failed the NCT to Mali last summer without even getting a puncture so you never know what'll go where.

unkel

You seem a bit overly relaxed, tbh. Take peasants post seriously, it is sound advice

Stoned Hippy wrote: »

Also there were suprisingly few (read: none) results on autotrader for Ladas..

Why would you try to buy one here? Would you not be better off sourcing a LHD 4X4 on the continent? Plenty of Nivas for sale for next to nothing in any of the countries you'll be crossing during your trip

Senna

Not much choice for 3K, but there are a few options, you should defiantly go for a Japanese make.

Did you watch that ewan mcgregor long way round program, was that the inspiration? You should know that that took months of preparation and they had a support crew that wasn't shown on camera. They probably took a similar route to get to Mongolia.

I would think long and hard about this, you have a time limit which is the most worrying thing. If it was just for fun and you have money, supplies and no time limit then it could be a great adventure. But you WILL run into problems and it will not all go according to plan! Do you (or the others) have any mechanical experience?
Millage isn't your biggest concern when picking a 4x4, a diesel engine can go strong well past 250k, but its all about the way the jeep was looked after. If you do buy something, you'd need to take it to a garage and get it in 100% mechanical order, that will cost.


A 10000k mile trip around europe in a nissan micra would be a much easier option. But i'm guessing the trip to Mali was a good experience, so you have more knowledge about this sort of thing than anyone else on this forum. what were the roads like in Africa? If i remember right, in the Long way around, the roads got very bad when they reached the former USSR countries (i only watched a few episodes, so cant really remember)

here are some 4x4 that i'd look at.
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Isuzu/TFS/TROOPER/552596/
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Isuzu/Trooper/3.1/928980/
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Mitsubishi/L200/PICK-UP/843132/

Dabko

bought mitiz pajero 2 months ago. 1993 model, 100,000 miles = 2800.00euro.

Im still in shock as to how well its running! Its an animal you can not kill!

It even has electric mirrors that still work perfect.

galwaytt

peasant wrote: »

To Mongolia you say ..that means travelling through mostly former Soviet territory, yes?

Then this is what you need:


http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?isSearchRequest=true&scopeId=C&country=&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&lang=en&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=14400&makeModelVariant1.modelId=12&maxPrice=&minFirstRegistrationDate=&maxMileage=&fuel=&zipcode=&zipcodeRadius=&doSearch.x=66&doSearch.y=14

at least you will get spares (and a mechanic that has worked on one before) at every corner.

because, let's face it ...a budget of 3 grand and reliability don't really go together ...no matter what make of car.

+1 on that - buy something the local's can fix. Can you imagine trying to fix a Disco in Mongolia LOL !! :eek:

And, perversely, by buying that NIVA, you'll probably find it won't break down in the first place - that comment on old Lada's is wide of the mark for the Niva.

Slidey

DO NOT buy a 3l trooper no matter how cheap you get it for.
Mate of mine has a 95 3.1 trooper with/out seats for sale. He is a mechanic too and works in an isuzu dealership, wen i'm chattin him again i'll ask how much he wants for it. Its a jap import but in good nick
Tbh i'd prob source something in one of the eastern bloc countires. Sounds like a blast, you want a mechanic as a travel companion??

bcmf

I have a 1991 Mitsi Pajero.I drive it down to SW France loade to the gills every summer.Only ever had 1 prob with it.Stills starts every time first ecery time.pm me if you want any further info

coolbeans

Right,
First off, you do seem to have a fairly 'devil may care' attitude to this overland trip. If I was beside you in the pub I'd be patting you on the back, buying you another vodka and talkin' up da foreign wimmen etc.
HOWEVER your vehicle of choice is crucial and you can't afford to **** this up. Forget the Disco number one. Total POS at your budget. Same goes for Jeep and anything that aint Japanese. Go for a Pajero or a similar vintage Toyota. There is merit however to the Lada Niva argument. Parts will be plentiful and they're a very robust, albeit crude vehicle AFAIK. If you can find a good one snap it up. Try the UK. Failing that go with the Japs.

Stoned Hippy

Firstly I would like to dispell the thought that I have a devil may care attitude. We have put a lot of effort into planning this trip and getting the car is the last step (biggest cost so left it last). Similarily to last year I do not expect the car to make it all the way, last year I said that if we got to the South of Spain I would be happy with the car and was prepared to hitchhike the rest of the way (this was after our now ex mechanic told us it was "like an old burnt out man and wouldn't make it to Rosslare). It turned out we were lucky and got there no problem. Similarily I don't expect a car bought for <€3000 to make it to Mongolia, it would be a bonus if it did. We're planning to not go off relatively frequently used pistes so if the worst comes to the worst we can abandon the car.
For a number of reasons including not expecting to make it in the car the whole way we are NOT doing any fundraising towards the cost of the car or equipment AT ALL as we may not get it there to give to the charity (if someone wants to offer us a better deal on a car understanding this fact that's their choice and fine however).

Secondly, I did think about buying a car in another country but decided against it for a number of reasons.
1) Buying a car in a foreign language when you don't have a lot of experience in dealing with cars could lead to trouble.
2) If we buy a car on a budget like ours it will definately need to see a mechanic to get checked out before we go for safety reasons at least and once again finding an honest mechanic in a strange land...
3) Paying for a car in a foreign country.
4) Insuring a car in a foreign country (with no local address etc.)
5) I would like to drive the car for a few weeks to see if there is anything that needs to be done before departure (things that the mechanic even may have missed or didn't think of).
6) Getting/collecting spare parts for a specific car before leaving.
7) We will have a fair amount of luggage (inc spares) when leaving so flying them all over would be a pain.

However it would be great to have a left hand drive car and the market is better in most other EU countries by the looks of things...
Does anyone think I should re-consider even buying in England and bringing it back here before going?

Thirdly, good to hear about the Pajeros, will definately keep a very keen out for them now.

Also, I see a Nissan Terrano for sale at a good price, 2.7L diesel. Anyone have any opinions on them? I know they're not hard core off roaders but we're not going to be doing anything too major...

Thanks,
S.h.2001

Stoned Hippy

Sorry Senna, skipped your post there when I was reading down!

Senna wrote: »

Did you watch that ewan mcgregor long way round program, was that the inspiration? You should know that that took months of preparation and they had a support crew that wasn't shown on camera. They probably took a similar route to get to Mongolia.

I did watch the long way round alright but it wasn't the inspiration for the trip. I've read other books about the area and i've travelled fairly widely and never been to Central Asia so that was the main draw really. I loved the idea of Ewan and Charlies trips but I have issues with how they ended up doing it, especially the Long Way Down.

Senna wrote: »

what were the roads like in Africa? If i remember right, in the Long way around, the roads got very bad when they reached the former USSR countries (i only watched a few episodes, so cant really remember)

For anyone interested the roads were remarkably good in the route we took down the West Coast of Africa. I've travelled widely in Eastern Africa and Southern Africa and the only other comparable roads I've driven on were the ones in South Africa. This was mainly because we stayed firmly on the main/only road going South accross the desert!!

For parts of Kazahkstan and Mongolia there simply aren't any roads, just tracks so GPS will become vitally important.

Senna wrote: »

here are some 4x4 that i'd look at.
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Isuzu/TFS/TROOPER/552596/
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Isuzu/Trooper/3.1/928980/
http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Mitsubishi/L200/PICK-UP/843132/

Those cars look like what we're looking for alright, a pity about Slideways comment... Anyone else have opinions on Troopers?

Thanks,
S.h.2001

landydef

i don't have any experience with troopers but ive heard a lot of bad things about there reliability
i used to have a 93 pajero (the 2.8 version) and i had a lot of trouble with it,had to replace the brake servo the water pump and the turbo just to mention a few parts
it all came to a head when i took it off road and it blew up on me, having said that from my experience you can get a bad apple from every type of car
if it was my money on that budget i think you couldnt go wrong with a hilux
plus if your going to be doing any off roading a decent set of tyres might pay off

Slidey

Stoned Hippy wrote: »

Those cars look like what we're looking for alright, a pity about Slideways comment... Anyone else have opinions on Troopers?

Thanks,
S.h.2001

I know that looke d like a good buy but trust me it isnt. I have spent numerous hours with full diagnostic equipmet in an isuzu agents tryin to get these heaps going, the 3l engine basically ruined their image and all because they wanted to be one of the first passenger common rail diesels on the market.
The 3.1 will run for ever and ever, they really are bullet proof.

astraboy

If you watch "the long way around" both support crew vehicles are Misti's, a Pajero and an L200 pickup. An old pajero might be a good bet. Also, in the long way down, they used Nissan Patrols, these I'm not so sure on, I think other posters can fill you in. If you are looking at an older model patrol, maybe head over to the Military forum, they are used extensively by the Irish army and some of the older mid nighties models are still in service despite their age and the abuse they would have taken!

Also, have you much off road experience?

farva

I have a 97 Pajero SWB Commercial Manual, they are generally bulletproof and hardly ever go wrong but when they go wrong, they go wrong BIG TIME!!
I have BFGoodrich All Terrain(A/T) tyres on mine and with the low range gear box + torque of the 2.8 its fantastic off road! On a trip like what your planning pay special attention to the tyres, Highway Terrain (H/T) tyres are USELESS off road and will get punctured easily, I've driven over whole glass Budweier bottles and smashed them twice with my BFG A/Ts and the tyres were perfect, I'd reccommend a hard compound A/T tyre for your trip.

If your interested in Pajero check out the Pajeros owners club UK; www.pocuk.com/forums they have all sorts of buyers guides and info for potential owners.

Traumadoc

Would not buy a pajero again, I had one in Australia, cooked the engine in the outback because a thermostat failed. Also my mother had one in the 90s which I ruined the gear box coming back from Sweden.

Slidey

it is hardly the pajeros fault that you didnt watch the temp gauge...

maims3875

Traumadoc wrote: »

Would not buy a pajero again, I had one in Australia, cooked the engine in the outback because a thermostat failed. Also my mother had one in the 90s which I ruined the gear box coming back from Sweden.

I would highly recommend the pajero, you can easily get one in the 2-3k price band, I sold one last year (92 reg), I had it for over 14 years and had 330k on the clock when I sold it (for €2150).

Alternatively get a toyota, hilux or landcruiser. you can't go far wrong with a Toyota /mitsuibishi!


What ever you intend to buy, get a mechanic to look over it first, it might costs €100 to get an opinion, but it will be worth it.



keep away from discovery's and land rovers. they are capable machines, WHEN they work. reliability is the biggest issue with all LR, even to this day.

Buy a Jap!

maims3875

try these links,



http://cars.motornet.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=644382

http://cars.motornet.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=972786

if you can strtch to €3500 k

then

http://www.add.ie/1991_toyota_hi_lux-o9685-en.html

cormac_byrne

If it was me (and I'm biased, since I drive Military 1963 Series IIa with 1 ton chassis) I would go for a 1974 - 1977 Series III UK Land Rover + Haynes manual + large box of tools & spare parts.

The logic is as follows.

The simpler the vehicle the less there is to go wrong and the easier it is to fix.

A series land rover is basically a big mechanno kit, you won't get a more basic 4x4. There isn't anything complicated that a backstreet mechanic in the middle of nowhere won't be able to deal with.

I would guess that in remote areas you are more likely to find Series Land Rovers still in daily use. (Where could you go and not see one?)

Older cars, particularly Land Rover Series & Defender, share more common parts, so finding the right bits should be easier.

Why 74 - 77 from the UK?

Post 73 in the UK don't qualify for classic status there, hence are less desirable i.e. cheaper

Pre 77 (or early 78) are 30 years old and therefore qualify for only €50 VRT and vintage road tax here which is about €49 per year.

You will easily be able to get such a vehicle for your budget.
Which if (some would say when) it breaks should be fixable.

Yes there are newer, more reliable cars, but will you get one for €3k?
And if it does breakdown in the middle of nowhere, how fixable will it be?

peasant

cormac_byrne wrote: »

(Where could you go and not see one?)

Kasachstan ? :D:D

cormac_byrne

peasant wrote: »

Kasachstan ? :D:D

Nope they have at least 24 Land Rovers in Kazakhstan !

http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=407&issue_id=3365&article_id=2369876

Tonka

As a few people have already mentioned i would strongly recommend the Lada Niva. Drive what the locals drive. the Lada is the peoples car. ie any vodka swilling farmer will be able to fix it with the minimum of mechnical aptitude and tools. They are extremely useful off road as well.

the Lada is also built to withstand the local conditions and drivers.

My mate traveled through mongoalia in an ex army 4x4 he bought over there.

be wary of using a japanese car. have you ever tried getting parts for a jap import here in ireland?? now think about trying to get the same part in the middle of post soviet world were the japanese manufacturers would not have had good market penetration of the particular budgeted vehicle youre talking about.

Yep youd have seen alot of Tojos Subbies and Landies in Africa, but i doubt you'll see many in northern Aisa.

nogoodnamesleft

I was in Mongolia last year for about a month working. One thing about older Japanese vehicles over there is that there is a huge market in second hand parts on the black market. These parts are sourced from stealing from parked vehicles. Older Japanese cars and jeeps are easier to rob parts from and people resorted to using modified screws to make the practice harder Mongolia is a massive country and not many people speak good english, roads are non existent outside of the main towns and capitals and it would be beneficial to have a second fuel tank in the vehicle your taking. I was based in Ullanbatar or UB as the locals call it and the driving was crazy over there forget any concept of indicating, yielding for ped crossings etc. Its an ex soviet block country. There are lada equivilivents over there but there are also plenty of Jap cars. Toyota landcruisers hilux's are the standard for the rough terrain over there. Is it the Mongol rally your going over for?

peasant

Moved to the "proper" forum ...now that we have it

Stoned Hippy

Firstly glad to see this thread resurrected from the dead!

Thanks for all your replies, especially nogoodnamesleft as we have just been given a 1992 Toyota Hilux Surf (well almost, waiting for the owner to call me to arrange the exchange of keys and documnets)!!

The car is in good nick apart from a frost plug which needs to be replaced. I found the seller through my local friend/mechanic who is a neighbour of the previous owner. He said that the car was in perfect condition (mechanically, a few bumps and other cosmetic blemishes) a year ago when the frost plug went and it hasn't been driven since. He reckons it'll need €700-€800 to get it up and running fully again.

In response to nogoodnamesleft, your report of the roads and driving seem to be in line to what i've heard from other sources alright. In regards to the vulnerability of old Jap 4x4s, do you have any other tips for improving security? When you say people were using modified screws do you mean safety nuts on wheels or anywhere with visable screws on the car or anywhere at all?

We're waiting to get the full car details before signing up to the http://mongolia.charityrallies.org/ rally. Tbh we're only signing on to get them to import the car for us and give it to a good cause, not much else.

Thanks again,
S.h.

Stoned Hippy

I forgot to say that there was a Lada listed on eBay, in Cork, a few weeks ago (can't seem to find it now). The buy it now price was an enticing €900, buyer said it was in good nick too. I was genuinely interested after reading some of the above comments but I think i'll settle for my Hilux, they've never done me wrong before, love the things!!

Max_Damage

If you go to www.mongolrally.com , there is alot of useful tips on going to Mongolia by car. Some of those boys on that site do it in Nissan Micra's and Ford Fiesta's to make it even more interesting, and alot do make it!

I'd go with the previous suggestions of a Lada Niva. They are absolutely bullet proof, nothing will kill them. Only problem is that they are not in much supply in this country. I'd also suggest a Toyota Hilux, again, you just can't beat them. If you go for a Hilux Surf, at least it'll have place in the back to put all your equipment. There is also plenty of Jap-import cars in Central/Eastern Russia, so parts for it shouldn't be hard to get.

A Land Rover Defender would also probably make it, but as other posters said, bring something that is mechanically simple to fix, because you'll probably end up broken down in the arse hole of Kazakhstan or somewhere.

Also, these lads drove to Australia from Dublin in a BMW 316i :eek:

http://www.dublintosydney.com/NewWebSite/menu.htm

You could get some very useful tips from their site aswell.