My build(hopefully)

Skidmcmarx

Hey guys, I'm gettin paid nxt week n want to build my 1st pc. This is what i've looked at so far. All from HWV as they've bin getting great reviews on these forums ne way here it is,

Untitled.jpg

It'll b used for a bit o cod4, madden nfl, proevo08, gears of war and watchin alot o hd content thru sm226bw and jus general internet, wrd, exel etc. Nothing too crazy, so if ne 1 thinks the gfx card myt b a bit much for these i'm open to suggestions. Oh n i'll be using it to convert avi->dvd a gud bit also so is the cpu enuf?? Any suggestions wud be greatly appreciateed. This is my first FULL build(usually just do a bit of upgrading and general fiddling around ) so i'd really like to get it right. I'd hope to keep the prices as low as possible and do a bit of overclocking with sum help from around the forums as soon as i'm all set up.

Thanks in advance
Skidz

Virgil°

If your gooing to buy 4 gigs of ram get 2 x2 sticks as opposed to 4x1.
Other than that i probably wouldnt change anyhting.
Just make sure the stuff you're buying is in stock before you purchase.

TerrorFirmer

Looks good to me too - nice solid build, bit of overclocking and you're good.

blackgold>>

Very good choice on the parts and as a side note the most sensible build i've seen on here in a long time.I'd go with what Virgil said aswell.
Nice one.

Ishindar

nice build. personally i would cheap out on the case and power supply http://www2.hardwareversand.de/1/articledetail.jsp?aid=17592&agid=625 and put the extra 120e into a better cpu, http://www2.hardwareversand.de/1/articledetail.jsp?aid=8790&agid=398

RoyalMarine

Ishindar wrote: »

nice build. personally i would cheap out on the case and power supply http://www2.hardwareversand.de/1/articledetail.jsp?aid=17592&agid=625 and put the extra 120e into a better cpu, http://www2.hardwareversand.de/1/articledetail.jsp?aid=8790&agid=398

are ya mad?! cheaping out on the psu is the worst thing you could do.
its the main reason people have problems with their computer's.

the psu is like the heart of the machine.

TerrorFirmer

Would definitely agree, that is terrible advice...

Skidmcmarx

First off thanks for al the replies.

I gotta agree with RMC and TF. I've bin looking around this forum for awhile now to help me spec this machine and have come across more than a few cases where a cheap psu has caused problems. Plus i really wanna go with a modular psu, more so for convenience than looks.

About thae gfx card and case...is there any other gfx card i cud choose other than the 8800gt. I have this card in my xps 420 and i absolutly love it but like i said i want to keep the price down as much as possible(witout losing too much performance of course:)) and it myt be overkill for my needs at the min. As for the case, to be honest i'm not too gone on the look of the antec 900 but its got great reviews and i really wud prefer a base mounted psu. Are there any other options(preferably with a lower price) that have gud build quality and are as easy to use wen installing components.

Thanks in advance
Skidz

AlmightyCushion

The 9600gt should lower the costs a bit and would still be quite a good card. You could try the 3870 as well.

Ishindar

Skidmcmarx wrote: »

First off thanks for al the replies.

I gotta agree with RMC and TF. I've bin looking around this forum for awhile now to help me spec this machine and have come across more than a few cases where a cheap psu has caused problems. Plus i really wanna go with a modular psu, more so for convenience than looks.

Skidz

eh it cost like nothing and rarely a problem, ive never had an issue in years of building. how complex do u think a psu is lol? so if it fails which is unlikely u throw it out and get another cheap one. u save a bit too

anyway terrorfirmer/royalmarinecom thats a pretty arrogant thing to say! u may disagree with my advise but to say its terrible...

a psu is a basic component and adds nothing to the performance. its a 5min job to replace. I dont see the point in putting 100e into a psu when u can put it into a more powerfull CPU and enjoy better performance. just my opinion.

TerrorFirmer

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=9032&agid=394

Still a great card and can easily match the 9600GT at 1280x1024 or 1440x900 in the majority of games.

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=20542&agid=554

Or just get a 9600Gt itself, sweet card.

And it is terrible advice. A dodgy psu can damage other components in your machine, not just serve as an annoyance. Maybe if I was building a 200 euro office machine, but most certainly not a gaming machine. Nothing arrogant about it whatsoever - it's just plain bad advice. As for failure rates - go look up 'Q-Tec problem' in Google, or browse the feedback on a lot of Dabs.ie budget PSU's....loads of 'failed after 5 months' comments.

PogMoThoin

Have to agree with Terror,
NEVER SKIMP ON A PSU


Nice rig BTW, You've obviously done your homework

Ishindar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

A dodgy psu can damage other components in your machine

sorry but that is a common misconception. the chances are neglegable.

the arrogance comes from putting my opinion down and elevating yours. when a question is a matter of opinion rather than fact.

blackgold>>

Ishindar that company makes execellent power supplies if you must know.:)
hec --> compucase

Sqaull20

You could drop the E4500 and get a E2180...

E2180 is €28 cheaper and should overclock higher than the E4500, ( 3.4ghz or more on that board) leaving you enough to get the 8800gt...

http://www3.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=17482&agid=398

Corsairs 450 watt psu is class and only €50..

http://www3.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=17483&agid=240

It has more than enough power...

TerrorFirmer

Ishindar wrote: »

sorry but that is a common misconception. the chances are neglegable.

the arrogance comes from putting my opinion down and elevating yours. when a question is a matter of opinion rather than fact.

It has happened in the past, and while unlikely to happen on solid psu's it is far more likely to happen with a cheap, generic supply.

Why an earth would you buy a cheap power supply and plain hope for the best, with a high likelihood you'll have to replace it eventually, and in the long run end up spending as much on multiple low end parts as you initially would have on a reliable brand?

Again, it is no arrogance. If you had said, 'I think you should ditch the E4500, and get the E6750 instead of that extra 2gb ram' - that's a perfectly valid opinion. 'You should replace your nice case and good power supply with a case with crappy airflow and a budget power supply' is not only an opinion, but bad advice for someone looking to build a gaming machine. 9/10 people here aside from yourself would agree with that.

A budget PSU is fine for an office machine or a low end machine, it is not for gaming machine.

Let's visit a few links:

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3HF0&CategorySelectedId=11259&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11259

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=2J7Q&CategorySelectedId=11259&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11259

Most people posting positive reviews are using old tech.

I'm not saying that the Dabs PSU's are of the same quality of the Compucase PSU, but your general opinion was that you might as well just go for a cheap, low end budget job.

Hec do have some OK psu's, but the hp400d is hardly comparable to their other mainstream budget parts.

Ishindar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It has happened in the past, and while unlikely to happen on solid psu's it is far more likely to happen with a cheap, generic supply.

Why an earth would you buy a cheap power supply and plain hope for the best, with a high likelihood you'll have to replace it eventually, and in the long run end up spending as much on multiple low end parts as you initially would have on a reliable brand?

Again, it is no arrogance. If you had said, 'I think you should ditch the E4500, and get the E6750 instead of that extra 2gb ram' - that's a perfectly valid opinion. 'You should replace your nice case and good power supply with a case with crappy airflow and a budget power supply' is not only an opinion, but bad advice for someone looking to build a gaming machine. 9/10 people here aside from yourself would agree with that.

A budget PSU is fine for an office machine or a low end machine, it is not for gaming machine.

Let's visit a few links:

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=3HF0&CategorySelectedId=11259&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11259

http://www.dabs.ie/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=2J7Q&CategorySelectedId=11259&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11259

Most people posting positive reviews are using old tech.

i guess the arrogant are blind to their own arrogance.

TerrorFirmer

Ishindar wrote: »

i guess the arrogant are blind to their own arrogance.

You should send a letter to all the top tech sites, they've obviously been blind too in not realizing 20 euro PSU's are adequate for todays high end gaming machines.

blackgold>>

I'm not sure who makes corsairs psu's maybe seasonic?
But i can tell you hec -->> compucase are just as good as them.

TerrorFirmer

Hec make some OK power supplies. But you'd be pretty naive if you thought that the PSU included in a case for 45 euro was as good as a 400w Corsair. They do make decent budget psu's, but they're also a massive supplier of OEM parts....providing low end, basic power supplies.

I'm not trying to ruffle anyones feathers here. But I find it very ill informed to advise someone to get a cheap case/psu combo for a brand new gaming build.

Who here would use that case linked to in full confidence with their new build?

blackgold>>

I would because the psu is quality go read up on them a little more.
45 euro was as good as a 400w Corsair in what do you mean good exactly?

Ishindar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

You should send a letter to all the top tech sites, they've obviously been blind too in not realizing 20 euro PSU's are adequate for todays high end gaming machines.

i wouldnt consider it a high end gaming machine with an E4500 in it but thats my opinion. you are missing my points completely anyway and obviously have limited education & experience

TerrorFirmer

blackgold>> wrote: »

I would because the psu is quality go read up on them a little more.
45 euro was as good as a 400w Corsair in what do you mean good exactly?

You keep missing my point. HEC PSU's, as I have previously stated, are OK - cheap, but decent. But - they also supply a massive quanity of cheap OEM parts. The psu in that case bundle - is not one of their gaming orientated supplies, it's a cheap one - the model is HP400D. As for how it wouldn't be as good as the Corsair? Less efficient, less stable rails, etc...

You're talking about HEC in general, I'm talking specifically about this supply.

i wouldnt consider it a high end gaming machine with an E4500 in it but thats my opinion. you are missing my points completely anyway and obviously have limited education & experience.

Considering the video card, not to mention he'll obviously be overclocking. I'm not missing your point, I fail to see how I am. Your idea - cheap PSU = good saving. My idea - cheap PSU = potential failure and ultimately uneconomical.

Nice dig there you had to add. It's just pathetic. You can't have a discussion without getting personal, no?

Why don't you post on Tweaking and Modding, Guru3D, Toms Hardware, etc, asking if they think a 45 dollar Case/400w psu bundle is a good idea for a new gaming machine. See what they say? I'd say you'd only find they're all uneducated and inexperienced as well.

blackgold>>

I see where your comming from with the quality issues but what if i put an ocz sticker on it woukd you buy it then?

Ishindar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Considering the video card, not to mention he'll obviously be overclocking. I'm not missing your point, I fail to see how I am. Your idea - cheap PSU = good saving. My idea - cheap PSU = potential failure and ultimately uneconomical.

simple maths, potential failure of 1 cheap PSU which is less than 25% of the price of an expensive PSU is low. so even if it does fail it will mean 4 psu's have to fail before it actually costs. put this against the lifespan of a gamers PC and its costing u money that is better sepnt on a better cpu, thats a no brainer in my book.

blackgold>>

I can see your point ishindar but you referred to the psu and case as cheap implying that it's basically not great . Thats not great advice at all infact it's terrible and getting worse every sentence you type lol.

About that particualr psu .
I have one and it runs great
http://www.compucase.de/englisch/produkte/netzteile/windmill/s300350ptw-spec.html
Whats the big deal with corsair?

Sqaull20

Review

http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/cases/compucase_tower/index_4.shtml

Good value alright...

But the psu would be pushed to its limit by a 8800gt/3.4ghz overclock, leaving future upgrades like a better video card/ more hard drives/ fast Quad in the balance?

blackgold>>

I'm going to sleep ,
squal not every cpu overclocks to 3.4 either lol
And quad core cpu's are overhyped and a waste of money.:D

Sqaull20

blackgold>> wrote: »

Put an ocz sticker on it and i'm sure it will be fine

I had a 305watt dell psu, powering a E2160 @ 3.0ghz, 2 x 160gb hard drives, X1950pro, for a few weeks with no problems...

Longterm?

RoyalMarine

Ishindar wrote: »

simple maths, potential failure of 1 cheap PSU which is less than 25% of the price of an expensive PSU is low. so even if it does fail it will mean 4 psu's have to fail before it actually costs. put this against the lifespan of a gamers PC and its costing u money that is better sepnt on a better cpu, thats a no brainer in my book.

ok hope you didnt take any offence to my comment earlier on.

basically what i meant but didnt explain is

you reccomended him to get a 400w psu insted of the 530w psu he originally picked.
what if he decides to add another 8800gt later on?
what if he decides after 6 months he wants an 9800gx2?

do you think a 400w psu will handle them?

i know that a 400w from any company wether good or bad for 30 - 40 euro will last what ever amount of time and its easier to replace it with another 400w for another 30 quid if it goes kaput but why not re-assure you of ANY problems and get a very decent psu with more juice than needed so when you do want to upgrade/add components you have no hassle and dont need to replace anything then?

i bought an ocz 750w. thought it was overkill. then i bought an 8800gt.
then i bought another.
it works flawlessly. if i had taken advice like your's and got a 400w cheapy psu then i would have had to buy another psu and been left with a 400w doing nothing.

on saturday my aunt arrives from america with 3 9800gx2's.
1 for squall and 2 for me.
there aint no way im running them on a cheap psu regardless of any 25% cost if it fails or a 5% chance of it damaging my components due to not enough juice or any thing.
im sticking a 1000 - 1500w toughpower in with them.

even if there is 1% chance of it screwing up and dying its still a 1% chance i dont want to take and would rather spend an extra few quid on ensuring it doesnt happen.

Fnz

Skidmcmarx wrote: »

As for the case, to be honest i'm not too gone on the look of the antec 900 but its got great reviews and i really wud prefer a base mounted psu.

This is the case I'm going for: [Link]

Good reviews, bottom mounted PSU and cheaper than the Antec.

Some reviews:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/RC_690/6.html
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=7&artpage=2863&articID=620
http://techgage.com/article/cooler_master_cm_690/2
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=10255&page=11

Ishindar

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

ok hope you didnt take any offence to my comment earlier on.

basically what i meant but didnt explain is

you reccomended him to get a 400w psu insted of the 530w psu he originally picked.
what if he decides to add another 8800gt later on?
what if he decides after 6 months he wants an 9800gx2?

do you think a 400w psu will handle them?

i know that a 400w from any company wether good or bad for 30 - 40 euro will last what ever amount of time and its easier to replace it with another 400w for another 30 quid if it goes kaput but why not re-assure you of ANY problems and get a very decent psu with more juice than needed so when you do want to upgrade/add components you have no hassle and dont need to replace anything then?

i bought an ocz 750w. thought it was overkill. then i bought an 8800gt.
then i bought another.
it works flawlessly. if i had taken advice like your's and got a 400w cheapy psu then i would have had to buy another psu and been left with a 400w doing nothing.

on saturday my aunt arrives from america with 3 9800gx2's.
1 for squall and 2 for me.
there aint no way im running them on a cheap psu regardless of any 25% cost if it fails or a 5% chance of it damaging my components due to not enough juice or any thing.
im sticking a 1000 - 1500w toughpower in with them.

even if there is 1% chance of it screwing up and dying its still a 1% chance i dont want to take and would rather spend an extra few quid on ensuring it doesnt happen.

well your pov is that of an enthusiast and fair play. but the vast majority of people arent enthustasts they just want the best bang for the buck. the OP is looking to build a system for games and general purpose on a budget with a view to a small stable overclock. The mobo this guy chose only takes one graphics card etc so maybe u see how easy it is to misinterpit and clouded from your own pov. and a cheap **** psu will do in this application with its maybe 0.1% fail rate. if the OP was looking to build a system with fans everywhere trying to squeese the last drop out of the CPU then of course a competent PSU is required.

============================

all i read and see here is popular forum babble from enthusiasts with bobs to spend on the neverending latest and greatest. how dare anyone challenge the popular and often misinterpited forum info out there. coming from a vast technical education & backround and posting here to get told that your opinion is "terrible" is a big indicator that this forum is inhabited by those who prefer their comfort zone.

TerrorFirmer

http://forums.hexus.net/help-technical-advisory/111749-psu-exploded.html

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=247383

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=609

Some casual reading on cheap psu's with gaming builds.

Now, I have no problem with a mid range gaming machine using a cheap, recognized brand - HEC make some perfectly good supplies that get decent if not exactly spectacular reviews.

But this case and power supply linked to - the power supply is a cheap, basic part, and not a part of the line up aimed at performance and high draw machines.

and a cheap **** psu will do in this application with its maybe 0.1% fail rate

0.01%? Got a link for that? Funny how you seem to incite that we're self righteous yet you're doing the exact same thing regarding your opinion - quite simply, why an earth do you think not only enthusiasts, but normal users, professionals, reviewers and such recommend brand name power supplies an d strive to convince people that ultra cheap power supplies are a bad idea? That failure rate is something you just made up out of your head.

if the OP was looking to build a system with fans everywhere trying to squeese the last drop out of the CPU then of course a competent PSU is required.

It's about a bit more then simply reaching the maximum output. Not to mention on that point, a 400w cheapo PSU will not remotely be able to sustain 400w...probably close to 300 or 320w.

Cheap PSU = cheaper components, less stable rails, less efficiency. Are you ignoring this part entirely? If cheapo PSU's were so suitable for gaming machines, or budget machines with powerful video cards, everyone would buy them.

Check out Dabs for the reviews of the very cheap power supplies, multiple instances of hardware failing within short periods using old hardware. The tech spec's look 'decent' on a casual glance. And you would use new tech and a power hungry video card on those same units to save a few quid?

all i read and see here is popular forum babble from enthusiasts with bobs to spend on the neverending latest and greatest. how dare anyone challenge the popular and often misinterpited forum info out there. coming from a vast technical education & backround and posting here to get told that your opinion is "terrible" is a big indicator that this forum is inhabited by those who prefer their comfort zone.

Says the guy who actually edited his post to include that I was "obviously uneducated and had no experience" for stating my own opinion, when in reality his own advice was in stark contrast to about 90% of system builders (In reality, it's probably a higher percentage - I've actually never seen a decent post on any tech forum advocating the suitability of a cheapo PSU for any sort of a build, but they do obviously exist), in whatever aspect of their build be it high end performance or even budget. Is this the part where I insult you now?

As I have said - these sort of power supplies are acceptable for basic machines, office machines, that place little demand on the PSU. Not for a gaming machine that's going to strain the power supply and run a high probability of BSOD due to insufficient power, freezes due to drops, etc.

Fnz

Here's a build you might consider - though perhaps with your original 520w PSU - I'm not sure of the power requirements when overclocking.



I'd choose the Scythe cooler over the 7 Pro. The Scythe totally outperforms it when it comes to cooling and is a bit quieter too. [source]

Ishindar

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

http://forums.hexus.net/help-technical-advisory/111749-psu-exploded.html

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=247383

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=609

Some casual reading on cheap psu's with gaming builds.

u quote novices who dont have a clue what they are doing. how many people post that their power supply didnt fail? people like to complain and novices do mess up.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Now, I have no problem with a mid range gaming machine using a cheap, recognized brand - HEC make some perfectly good supplies that get decent if not exactly spectacular reviews.

agreed.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But this case and power supply linked to - the power supply is a cheap, basic part, and not a part of the line up aimed at performance and high draw machines.

all power supplies are cheap basic parts. saying the more u spend the better the quality for the application is nieve imho.
this guy is not building "a performance and high draw machine".

lets look a little closer here. the 2 main power consuming components.
CPU E4500 with a power consumption of 65w and a GPU with a power consumption of 105w = 170w, that leaves 230w for all the minor power consuming components, pleanty of headroom.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

0.01%? Got a link for that? Funny how you seem to incite that we're self righteous yet you're doing the exact same thing regarding your opinion - quite simply, why an earth do you think not only enthusiasts, but normal users, professionals, reviewers and such recommend brand name power supplies an d strive to convince people that ultra cheap power supplies are a bad idea? That failure rate is something you just made up out of your head.

yes it is a number pulled out of my ass but its more realistic than your assumption that the PSU is going to fail or cause issues.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

It's about a bit more then simply reaching the maximum output. Not to mention on that point, a 400w cheapo PSU will not remotely be able to sustain 400w...probably close to 300 or 320w.

so your saying that all manufacturers of cheapo PSUs specs are fabricated?
based on what? more forum babble?

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Cheap PSU = cheaper components, less stable rails, less efficiency. Are you ignoring this part entirely? If cheapo PSU's were so suitable for gaming machines, or budget machines with powerful video cards, everyone would buy them.

this just makes me think, that u think, a PSU is a complex device when in fact its one of the most simple of all. component reliability is not so bad in 2008 u know. manufacturers will market and get what they can for their product. reliability is always an issue with electronics but in 2008 i wouldnt base a build on worrying about it.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Check out Dabs for the reviews of the very cheap power supplies, multiple instances of hardware failing within short periods using old hardware. The tech spec's look 'decent' on a casual glance. And you would use new tech and a power hungry video card on those same units to save a few quid?

people like to complain. people dont post their happy stories. if it fails send it back and they will replace it. yes i would take that minute risk for a better performing system.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Says the guy who actually edited his post to include that I was "obviously uneducated and had no experience" for stating my own opinion, when in reality his own advice was in stark contrast to about 90% of system builders (In reality, it's probably a higher percentage - I've actually never seen a decent post on any tech forum advocating the suitability of a cheapo PSU for any sort of a build, but they do obviously exist), in whatever aspect of their build be it high end performance or even budget. Is this the part where I insult you now?

my advise is not in contrast with a large proportion of system builders because its specific to this one build proposed by the OP and needs to be viewed on the info given.

I do agree however, that if u are an enthusiast and use multiple gpus and change your system a lot etc. it is definitely better to get a good spec power supply.

the insult came from elevating your opinion and calling mine "terrible" which
as i said is arrogance.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

As I have said - these sort of power supplies are acceptable for basic machines, office machines, that place little demand on the PSU. Not for a gaming machine that's going to strain the power supply and run a high probability of BSOD due to insufficient power, freezes due to drops, etc.

as i illustrated earlier this particular PC build isnt going to strain anything when the main load is 170w and a chepo PSU is a very low risk against enjoying a much better cpu for a nice performance boost for the cash and thats just my opinion.

blackgold>>

so your saying that all manufacturers of cheapo PSUs specs are fabricated?
based on what? more forum babble?

They just don't have the massive advertising in place .
The review sites have monoplised what kids buy anyway.
On the Integrity of Hardware Review Sites
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/06/1719216

There's plenty of oem makers who are oem makers for the simple fact that they don't advetise because if they did they would have to increase the products price and slap on a sticker saying it's ocz ultra ubbver super duper power supply sli certified vista capable etc lol bollocks.

Ishindar

blackgold>> wrote: »

They just don't have the massive advertising in place .
The review sites have monoplised what kids buy anyway.
On the Integrity of Hardware Review Sites
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/06/1719216

There's plenty of oem makers who are oem makers for the simple fact that they don't advetise because if they did they would have to increase the products price and slap on a sticker saying it's ocz ultra ubbver super duper power supply sli certified vista capable etc lol bollocks.

exactly! the lack of technical detail and proper testing is the giveaway & the novice is blind, dont believe all you read.