Slight water damage / damp - should I buy ?

deadl0ck

Hi all,
Myself and my wife are going halves with my in-laws on a camper van.
We've been looking around and have a good idea what we want, and how much we're willing to spend.

We looked at an 02 5-berth camper in a dealers today and there are a few things as follows:

(1) Bad crack on one of the alkove windows - dealer said he has a replacement for it and it will be fixed
(2) Some of the locks on the outside compartments are broken - dealer will replace
(3) The little stay that holds the back window open is broken -which also means one of the latches for that window doesn't work.
(4) The biggie - some water damage / dampness at the back

At the back of the camper is a long couch along the side (1 berth) that goes to the back wall. The bit beside the back wall is tucked in beside the bathroom.
There is slight softness and blisters on the back wall about 3/4 of the way up and that continues into the bathroom along the back wall.
There is no damage above this up to the roof (that I can feel/find) and also none below. The damage seems to go over to the back window (in the bathroom).
It's worst where the bathroom wall meets the back of the camper (on both the couch side and the bathroom side).
The sealant in between the bathroom wall and the back wall is cracked open for about 3 inches, and this is where the softness is the worst.
Also - it seemed that the back window wouldn't close right - but it turned out that it just wasn't latched as tight as it could go.
God know how long the back window was like that as it seems rain would have blown in here and hit the crack in the sealant (I reckon that the crack is too far away from the shower for the damage to have been done from the shower).
We checked the outside of the camper at the back and it all seems fine and there is nowhere obvious (to us) that water could have got in. Also the top of the camper looks good and is very clean with no obvious cracks or damage.

Here's roughly what I mean (sorry - running Linux and dunno how to use the paint program...)
[PHP]
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#########||##
########@||##### +

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@|C@#### | |
@|C@#### | WINDOW |
@|C@#### | |
#########||#### +

---

+
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Wall between couch and
bathroom (90 degrees to back wall)

@ = Very Soft
# = Softish / lumpy
C = Crack in sealant[/PHP]

So - where is the water damage coming from ? Most obvious was the partially open window (about 1cm opening) but could it blow over and in the open gap in the sealant ?

Now I know that Water damage is a no-no if you can possibly avoid it BUT, and here's the thing, the camper is a VERY good price - about 3K or 4K less than comparable ones we've looked at. (and we'd offer even less to get the ball rolling of course)

The dealer reckons it not too bad and will dry out as long as we identify the source of the water, which he reckon is the window.

Also - he claims he's selling it for someone that he has does a lot of business with over the years - he didn't seem to pushed about selling it at all.
He said he would maybe give some warranty, but seeing as he's not selling it as one of his own (i.e. selling it on behalf of somebody) he wouldn't give much - basically said "we'd have to talk about it...."

So - any advice ? What do you all reckon ?
It's tempting, apart from the water issue, but at the same time it's hard to ignore the price......

Thanks !!

By the way - here's my Camper Van checklist I made up in case it's of use to anybody else (might be worth adding to in a separate thread so there's a comprehensive checklist boardies could use):

Camper Check List
Camper Details
Contact Name and Number :
Asking Price :
Camper Reg :
Mileage :
Engine Size :
Camper Type (Make and Model):
No. Of Berth :
LHD / RHD :
Weight :
Tax and Insurance Cost :
Service History & MOT :
Inside Checklist
- Inside 220V & 12V plugs :
- Blinds & Insect Screens :
- Solid Bed (especially in Alcove) & Check length to lie in :
- Damp/soft wood anywhere (press the walls and ceiling firmly to check for are any signs of softness which would indicate possible water ingress. In particular, do this low down in the corners under the seats and base units because this is often where water ingress first appears) :
- Air Conditioning & Heater :
- Seatbelts :
- Hob :
- Fridge :
- Shower :
- Toilet & Waste :
- Reversing camera/sensor :
- In the toilet/shower compartment, check the condition of the sealant around the toilet and the shower tray. If a mat is fitted in the shower tray lift it so that you can check for cracks in the tray:
- Try all appliances and lights :
Outside Checklist
- Outside charging plug for camp sites :
- Leisure Battery & how is it charged :
- Even Tyre Wear all around :
- Water tanks :
- Gas Tank :
- Clean Engine :
- Rust around windows and under camper:
- Check Roof if possible (Dirt may conceal cracks):
- Check the plastic windows for gouges and deep scratch damage:
- While you are examining the windows, gently lift the seal, at intervals. If the frame is black, this is almost certainly due to water ingress :
- Water heater :

peasant

My advice:

Walk away ...no, coming to think of it ...RUN !!

What you see (bad as it is) is only half of it. Water has the habit of running down , and if the upright wall is as bad as you say, the floor and some of the structural beams therein are most likely rotten. (this also leads me to belive that the window is not the only culprit, as the damp is beside it, not underneath ...you may find leaking fixing holes for a bike carier or ladder on the outside of the damp patch)

Once wood is rotten, all drying in the world will not reconstitute its stability, it'll be soft like turf. It is higly likely that over time that rear wall will either disintegrate or that the bottom will fall out of the yoke ...or both.

In order to fix this, all internal walls and furniture in the back would have to be removed (including the complete bathroom), everything ripped open and any and all affected bits removed and replaced, most likely including a section of the floor and some of the load bearing joists.

Unless you know a joiner who owes you a mountain of favours, not a job for DIY.

This thing is only 05, so even if you get it "cheap", the dealer is still looking for serious money, some of which you will want to re-coup on resale down the line. Well ...with water damage that bad there will be no resale unless you get it fixed and that is going to cost you several thousands and weeks of time.

So ...RUN!!

btw ..the seal on that 90 degree wall is purely cosmetic and only separates the bath from the rest. The reason why it is cracked is because the back wall has warped so badly already that it has moved away from the joint. This should give you some idea of the severity of the unseen damage.

again ...RUN!! :D

peasant

Here is a slideshow of repair to similar damage (caused by a leaking service hatch and leaking bike rack fixings)

http://img99.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img99/8329/1193774148thg.smil

taken from this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055172970

KoNiT

run.... don't look back, no resale value

wohnmobile

The dealer you are buying it from says that he is selling it for a friend, yet he is prepared to do almost anything that you want fixed. Water travels very well. Most internal wall structures are of a plastic finished paper and if water was blowing on it, it would be wet at floor level. Have you checked for dampness on the floor area. Is there a ladder of bicycle rack fitted ? I cant understand why there should be a gap in the wall between the bathroom and living area. Probalby floor is also gone. Have you examined it with a damp meter
Also - he claims he's selling it for someone that he has does a lot of business with over the years - he didn't seem to pushed about selling it at all. A good salesman. He said he would maybe give some warranty, but seeing as he's not selling it as one of his own (i.e. selling it on behalf of somebody) he wouldn't give much - basically said "we'd have to talk about it… I have heard this before. Part with your hard earned cash and that will be the end of it. Why should he give you any guarantee as it is not his

water ingress , can be a very costly repair. Most of today’s campers are of a bonded construction and removing a sheet of aluminium is a no no It is not ajob for the DIY man but a specialist
.Walk away from it. In your Camper Checklist you have mentioned dampness on two occasions yet you are even considering purchasing this one against all your own advice.

deadl0ck

Thanks for the advice guys - I was pretty convinced that I shouldn't buy it but I want to get assurance that I wasn't over reacting, as this is our first camper purchase.
I pieced together my checklist from various forums, so I don't have any first-hand experience myslef (yet)

Now to convice my fater-in-law to walk away with me

peasant

just as a matter of interest, what make and model is it?

deadl0ck

It a Carioca Ducato 5 Berth.

What are carioca generally like ?

KoNiT

Now to convice my fater-in-law to walk away with me

easy, tell him to buy it & you'll silicone some OSB board on the outside & paint it white, using your best DIY voice "great job..we'll do it on a saturday..."

What dealer is it & is this particular sponge on the net?
I'm sure no prospective "boards" buyer wants an aquarium!

stapeler

Is it possible the window was deliberatly left unlatched to give the impression that it's causing the problem?

Offer him a couple of thousand, we'll all pitch in and take it on as a "boards" project for the next 5 yrs:)

deadl0ck

Thanks again guys for all the advice.

Here's the camper in question : http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Other/Other/Carioca-Ducato/975877/

It's probably not that cheap - but is seemed to be based on Irish prices....

Anyhoo... we've walked away and feel good about it !!!

peasant

ok this is pure speculation now ...

looking at the pics, I'd say the water comes in at the holes for the reversing camera.

deadl0ck

God bless your eyesight !!!

Only for the fact that I know where the reversing camera is (as I saw it) , I would never be realise that was it from the pictures !!

You have a fair point though .......

*Kol*

peasant wrote: »

ok this is pure speculation now ...

looking at the pics, I'd say the water comes in at the holes for the reversing camera.

I would say you are right. It's a perfect place for water to accumulate between the brake light and the seam where the camera is screwed into. Especially when the MH is parked.