Xtratherm substituted for Kingspan

beardybrewer

We are currently having our attic converted. Insulation was included in the agreed upon price. We opted to pay €500 extra for Kingspan. They have put in Xtratherm in instead. He claims it is meant for attics and is €1.10 more expensive per sq. m. When I asked, he was snarky and said he ate the cost for the more expensive stuff because he thought i'd want the best. Personality problems aside, is he lying about the cost?

AckwelFoley

Theres no difference in the two imo.

both need to meet regulations.

Kingspan are better known.. because of advertising.

What product did u get exactly? Both companies do several different products.. was it rafterloc?

beardybrewer

snyper wrote: »

What product did u get exactly? Both companies do several different products.. was it rafterloc?

Yes, it is indeed rafterloc.

AckwelFoley

newkie wrote: »

Yes, it is indeed rafterloc.

and did you want the exact same product in Kingspan?

There shouldnt be such a big difference in price.. because Kingspan need to be competative and there is a tiny margin on this product.. i know .. i worked in a hardware store for 10 years

The product he supplied you is perfect for the job. The reason he got xtratherm is perhaps because the store he deals with the most deals with Xtratherm, shops generally do one or the other but not both brands, and because hes a customer of that shop hes able to get a better deal, i will be gonest i dont think hes trying to "pull a fast one" they are essentially the same product, and i certainly wouldny pay an extra 500 for the same product.(if its the rafterloc eqv in Kingspan priced)

beardybrewer

Thanks for that. I think the €500 extra is instead of using standard cheap as chips insulation. If the products are comparable and are similar in price then I don't have a problem.

sinnerboy

both products are equally good . buy the builder a beer . or a breakfast roll:pac::pac::pac::pac:

gsxr1

www.howarth-timber.co.uk/files/upload_files/rafterloc-final-ad-mar-07.pdf -


fantastic product.

I am trying to cut the insulation soild type to exact size in my attic. It is quite difficult to get really tight.

AckwelFoley

gsxr1 wrote: »

www.howarth-timber.co.uk/files/upload_files/rafterloc-final-ad-mar-07.pdf -


fantastic product.

I am trying to cut the insulation soild type to exact size in my attic. It is quite difficult to get really tight.

Is this the insulation you took out of the skip in work?

gsxr1

snyper wrote: »

Is this the insulation you took out of the skip in work?

yeah.. my stuff is much better. Its free:)

JohnBoy

having done the whole cutting kingspan to size thing (in fact mine was quinn brand) i think the rafterloc style products are a great idea. its an awful job trying to get a tight fit, esp in an older roof.

ElectricP

Newkie what you need to check is the 'U value' of both products if they are both the same then they will 'insulate' the building the same. The lower the U value the better.

SEI website contanins useful info explaining it in more detail.
http://www.sei.ie/index.asp?docID=-1&locID=531

iSam

In fact Xtratherm's rafterloc is the superior product for attics when insulating between rafters. Because it has an accordian style squeeze feature it means you don't have to buy big boards and cut them to fit the rafters which saves time and waste and of course it makes a more airtight seal in the rafter gap.

Also Rafterloc is available to fit both 400 and 600 centred rafters. It is actually slightly more expensive but when you consider the time and waste saved and the neatness and efficiency of the job it's well worth the extra euro.

iamlegend2008

Hi

Having just last week installed 280 rafterloc boards and not being a builder by trade, I would also offer an overall positive review of the rafterloc. I found that

(a) The amount of wastage is quite small (and often these bits can be used to plug holes around the cross braces).

(b) Like any insulation product, gloves, masks and glasses are essential and the boards have a lot of dust in them.

(c) The boards tend to show off the limitiatons of the roof trusses where each joist is not not the same width (which is why the compression feature is so handy where you can squeeze the boards).

(d) I used expanding foam and aliminium foil tape to complement any gaps and am please with the results.

Its still a messy job but I found that the taping and filling took as long as installing the boards.

Cheers

9DSC01523.JPG

Nulty

Thats a pretty good job iamlegend

Yopu should see the botch up Iv got done.

Im using the kingspan and its a bitch. Im telling you.

now iver got to pull it out and extend the rafter depth because i wasnt aware of the "ventilation" issue.

Bad to worse!

Any one got experience extending rafter depth or installing ridge and soffit vents???

topcatcbr

Nulty wrote: »

Thats a pretty good job iamlegend

Yopu should see the botch up Iv got done.

Im using the kingspan and its a bitch. Im telling you.

now iver got to pull it out and extend the rafter depth because i wasnt aware of the "ventilation" issue.

Bad to worse!

Any one got experience extending rafter depth or installing ridge and soffit vents???

You could plant on the extra depth required to underside of rafter. Ive done this years ago. But if i had to do the same today i would use insulation backed plasterboard to required extra depth and fix directly to underside of rafters using a screwfix gun. Reduction in thermal bridging and less mess and material required.

JohnBoy

assuming you dont want to throw out the existing insulation then you can fit a 2x2 onto the underside of the rafters.

just dont pull the whole lot down in one go, only do a few at a time, your rafters are not equally spaced so if you've cut to a good fit you should fit the pieces back into the exact spot they came out of, otherwise you'll end up with gaps and trimming to do.

iamlegend2008

Hi Nulty

Sorry to hear about your woes.

My rafters are 150mm and the rafterloc is 100mm leaving a 50mm air gap for ventilation. My understanding is that this gap can be reduced to 25mm if using a good roffing membrane.

I should also have mentioned that I have hired a person to install a proclimba breathable membrane underneath these boards and this membrane will provide the true airtight seal to the dormer.

He felt (as some others did too) that the taping and sealing was probably overkill since his membrane application would ensure the airtightness (but he also felt it was a good job by me).

Ultimately, we all have to live in our houses for a long time and so I wanted to feel that I had done all that I could to stop draughts and since my house faces the atlantc on the west of Ireland, the west wind and I will have many battles over the coming years

Cheers

Franm

Hi Nulty,
I installed 2x2s to the underside and screwed a few 1"x4" pieces up 4" on the side of the rafters to stop the rafterloc from sliding up to far.
Re ridge ventilation, I installed a product called Fullmetal Rediroll which was simple enough to install. This gives a continuous ventilation under the ridge tiles. The hardest thing to do was to remove the original nails holding down the tiles. No leaks so far and it has been well tested over the past two months.
F.

EyeOnTheBall

Xtratherm is not airtight. It is more efficient at reducing air filtration and exfiltration than cheaper materials, but on it's own, it should not be confused with an airtight insulation product.

Many people get confused around this issue. Airtighness in conjucnction with a vapour barrier is really the only type of insulation to have. Everything else is an expensive waste of time.

tred

EyeOnTheBall wrote: »

Xtratherm is not airtight. It is more efficient at reducing air filtration and exfiltration than cheaper materials, but on it's own, it should not be confused with an airtight insulation product.

Many people get confused around this issue. Airtighness in conjucnction with a vapour barrier is really the only type of insulation to have. Everything else is an expensive waste of time.

So, is it waste of time, applying the rafterloc, and then covering that with a siga membrane?

NIMAN

As someone who has a storey and a half house, I have been thinking of adding insulation in my attic space, and recently got a quote for spray foam insulation.

It was a lot more than I though it would be,and I was wondering would the liked of Xtratherm Rafterloc be a lot cheaper whilst still doing a decent job?

Anyone know rough price per m2 of Rafterloc?

Gumbo

NIMAN wrote: »

As someone who has a storey and a half house, I have been thinking of adding insulation in my attic space, and recently got a quote for spray foam insulation.

It was a lot more than I though it would be,and I was wondering would the liked of Xtratherm Rafterloc be a lot cheaper whilst still doing a decent job?

Anyone know rough price per m2 of Rafterloc?

Might be better starting your own thread rather than reigniting a 6 year old one as the material properties of the insulation have changed over the years.

NIMAN

Apologies, I had Googled for Xtratherm and it linked me to a Board thread, I didn't even look at dates!

Gumbo

No worries.

There's a bit on the spray foam on these forums. Some like it, some don't. Most companies claim to have certificates and approval from this body and that body, but there's 2 types, open cell and closed cell iirc.

I'm not 100% clued up on it at the moment, but I will say this. I got into a 60's built attic yesterday, the rafters had been spray foamed and it was warm up there. Not warm enough to dance around naked now but warm enough to know it was insulated if you get me.

If I was spray foaming an attic, I would spray between the rafters and then put a thin insulated board on the inside of the rafters to create a continuous insulated layer bit someone might advise on what particular foam to use as you have to allow the timbers to be ventilated as per building regs.