DART Carriage Types - What's with the Recent Poorly Designed Models?

ixoy

The last week I've noticed that my train (8:09 from Malahide) is using some particularly poor types of carriage. This also occurred at the 7:46 train today (and happened with the 8:09 later).

The carriages in question are very narrow. The roof of the carriage is sharply angular, not leaving much headroom. The standing area, across from the doors looks to me to be a lot smaller and has four poles to hold onto. However they're spaced I've seen people unable to have anything to hold on and fall as the train lurches about. The windows are also very small, with the seating areas no bigger than any others.

The whole design reminds me of a subway train, as if it was planned to go through small narrow tunnels. It seems to offer reduced capacity and a more uncomfortable ride than any of the other carriage types (new or otherwise), so I'm wondering why on earth they're here and if they're a permanent addition? Especially at peak hours when people now have even more trouble pushing onto the cramped train.
I'm hoping I'm only seeing them as they shuffle around their stock to get it refurbished.

Decuc500

Yeah, I've noticed those new carriages with no pole to hold onto. It's completely ridiculous and also a bit dangerous that when the carriage is packed people have nothing to hold onto and have to stumble around to keep their balance.

What was the designer of these carriages thinking about? What were Irish Rail thinking about when they bought them? Are they even aware of this dangerous situation?

Colm R

They were cheap

Tipsy Mac

There's another model with seats designed for Leprechauns where two Irish people can't sit facing each other as there's not enough space.
There's another model where there's no opening windows fitted in the carriages and the air conditioning doesn't work.
There's another model where the door opening buttons are in a completely different place to the others making life extremely difficult for a blind person.
There's another model where the heating is under seat and gets so warm that it could actually burn you.
There's another model where the information display tells you your approaching a station on the southside when the train is actually on the northside.

Run_to_da_hills

These carriages were built for an underground railway. CIE should store these away for another 20 years for its proposed metro.

ixoy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

These carriages were built for an underground railway. CIE should store these away for another 20 years for its proposed metro.

That's what I thought - the narrow design reminded me of a subway/underground train. They certainly don't make maximum use of the potential space offered by a less restricted overland line.
So why on earth did IE buy them? Other than they were on a "2-for-1" special in the Bargain Bin.

bryanw

Hmm... sounds interesting. I'm curious as to which carriages they are. I don't think I'm familiar with them. Are they new ones? Any pictures?

L1011

8200 series, the Spanish ones. You rarely see them as they're not out of the workshops very often!

They were 'the new ones' once upon a time, first ones introduced after the 1984 LHB units.

Edward Ryan

The 8200 class were built by Alstom Spain in 2001. There is only 10 carrages 8 are currently in service although they spend most time out of service. They are total muck and are always breaking down. IE also bought a diesel version of the 8200 classed 2700. They were bannished to Limerick and Cork as they too were rubbish.

corktina

Limerick and Cork are rubbish??? :eek:





pictures would help us here i think..(not of CVork and Limerick though...:rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

The 8200's are back and running again, I saw an 8 car set of them bray bound at about 4.30 from Killiney unusual formation of all powered cars ie 4 pairs of EMU. They may have been on a trials.

TirEoghain

They have been in service about a month or so now.

Thankfully I havent had the pleasure of travelling in them yet, I'm not a fan of them at all. 4 of the 2 car units are in one rake, and the remaining set is sitting at Fairview with the pantograph down.

I was travelling on the remaining operating non refurbished LHB unit (8122+8322 I think) last week, I'd say it won't be in service much longer before being sent to Germany.

TirEoghain

Edward Ryan wrote: »

IE also bought a diesel version of the 8200 classed 2700. They were bannished to Limerick and Cork as they too were rubbish.

Are the 2700's just as unreliable? I have just travelled on one once, from Mallow to Tralee. I didn't mind it so much, was dreading the journey after travelling on the 8200's before, but it was grand.

Are they Alstom powered? I thought they sounded similar to the 2800 class, but maybe it was my hangover on the day that caused me to imagine that..

icdg

Yep, the 2700 were built by what was at the time GEC Alsthom. Oddly for sets in Commuter livery they are rarely seen in Dublin these days. I personally don't really mind them but prefer the 2900s.

Run_to_da_hills

I cannot unsuestand the story with Alstohm, http://www.alstom.com/home/ they are a huge company that have been making Locamotives, DMUs. EMUs, Trams for SNCF (TGV), BNCF, Renfe, DB, London Underground, Channel Tunnel and more, they even have a subsidiary that overhaul ESB turbines through out Ireland every year. All of a sudden they produce a nasty batch of trains for this country. http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/products_and_services/rail_vehicles/31115.EN.php?languageId=EN&dir=/home/products_and_services/rail_vehicles/
Iarnrod Eireann have been very lucky not to have invested too much into this crowd.

TirEoghain

icdg wrote: »

Yep, the 2700 were built by what was at the time GEC Alsthom. Oddly for sets in Commuter livery they are rarely seen in Dublin these days. I personally don't really mind them but prefer the 2900s.

I like the 29000s myself. Haven't been on one in a long time though. Used to get one accasionally when I was working in Blackrock, but now that I'm working in the town, it's always a DART.

First time I travelled on a 29000, I didnt like it though, but that's probably because it was substituting a loco hauled train on the Enterprise service.

Back to the 8200 DART though, does anyone know if it's any more reliable now that they are back in service after being off for so long.

Also, does anyone know if that other 8200 set will return to service? Maybe it might replace 8122+8322 coupling with the 8500 set to keep that as a 6 car rake?

On the subject of the DART too, does anyone else think it would be a good idea for them to display at the station the length of the next train? It's annoying standing at the platform waiting to board the rear carraige of a train, and not knowing whether it will be a 6 or 8 car rake. They have this in Munich, and it saves a lot of running along the platform when people catch on what length the train actually is.

Run_to_da_hills

TirEoghain wrote: »

They have this in Munich, and it saves a lot of running along the platform when people catch on what length the train actually is.

DB is about 10 years ahead of us in rail transportion. We will have to wait another 10 years for this

TirEoghain

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

DB is about 10 years ahead of us in rail transportion. We will have to wait another 10 years for this

Some of the displays that show this seem to be well over 10 years old, so I would imagine that it could be more like 20 years.

How old are the underground trains over there? The ones that are like the LHB DARTS. They do seem a lot older, but it seems that they were made my Siemens. This confuses me, as the LHBs here were refurbished by Siemens a lot later.

TirEoghain

TirEoghain wrote: »

I was travelling on the remaining operating non refurbished LHB unit (8122+8322 I think) last week, I'd say it won't be in service much longer before being sent to Germany.

Just read today on another forum that 8122+8322 is now out of service, and that 8611+8511+8512+8612 is now sitting in Fairview as a spare, so it looks likely that 8122+8322 and 8116+8316 are be soon heading to Germany for the refurb job, leaving no original LHB DARTs in service.

L1011

TirEoghain wrote: »

Some of the displays that show this seem to be well over 10 years old, so I would imagine that it could be more like 20 years.

How old are the underground trains over there? The ones that are like the LHB DARTS. They do seem a lot older, but it seems that they were made my Siemens. This confuses me, as the LHBs here were refurbished by Siemens a lot later.

1920s German electric units have the same shape/profile as LHB units, so I suspect Siemens made very similar gear for years also.