First published photos :)

Cabaal

It may not be much but I got 8 photos published (portraits) in the Kilkenny People (4th April edition) on page 8 & 9 for the People Of The Year Awards

Its a start...

tywy

Congrats!

Eirebear

Nice one Cabaal...well done!:D

Paulw

It's always nice to see your images in print. The payment is also nice too.

Well done.

Cabaal

Paulw wrote: »

It's always nice to see your images in print. The payment is also nice too.

Well done.

I didn't get paid but sure its still nice to see them in print all the same, also I'm doing another thing for the awards so I can get my name mentioned there to

Paulw

Personally, I can't understand why people are happy to see their images printed, even if they don't get paid. The paper is making money, and your name in the paper doesn't buy camera equipment.

The more people that give free images away, the less papers want to pay, so in the end, you're only devaluing your own interest.

Ah well, they're your images.

Cabaal

Don't get me wrong I wanted to be paid but I figured its a first time and as things progress I can look for money

mike65

Pix or it didnt happen? Well done.

Mike.

Dragan

Well done!

Cabaal

mike65 wrote: »

Pix or it didnt happen? Well done.

Mike.

Buy a Kilkenny People
I'll see what I can do about the photos....

trishw78

Congratulations!!! yeah show us your pics

challengemaster

Cabaal wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I wanted to be paid but I figured its a first time and as things progress I can look for money

With an attitude like that to it, you'll become an easy pushover to the paper, and when you ask for money at a later stage when they're used to free pics, they'll get someone else.

First time or 100th time, why give away your pics for free? Do you work for no money too? Or did you figure in work you'd work for free for so long, then ask for money as you progress? Just for a comparison...

I'm with PaulW on this one, it's all well and good having your name/prints there, but that's not gonna buy you anything.

Congrats tho, btw

Cabaal

well it was between me doing the photos for free and another person who offered to do them for free, I'd rather do them and get stuff printed then not, specially for a first time,

Though I agree with your comments paulw/challengemaster, very valid point which I honestly do agree with

Paulw

Cabaal wrote: »

well it was between me doing the photos for free and another person who offered to do them for free, I'd rather do them and get stuff printed then not, specially for a first time,

I don't see the logic. So, you spent your time, effort, equipment etc, and all for free? Just so you can see your name in the paper?

Go out and rob a bank. You'll get your name in the paper, and have money to show for it.

If I go out and shoot for myself, then I know I'm doing it for me. But, if someone wants my images, they can certainly pay for them - no matter how little they pay. €20 or €200, it's still better than nothing. And don't think that papers are poor either.

Did you agree to do it for free, or have you just not billed them?

Freddie59

Cabaal wrote: »

It may not be much but I got 8 photos published (portraits) in the Kilkenny People (4th April edition) on page 8 & 9 for the People Of The Year Awards

Its a start...

Congrats Cabaal.:) Well done. You deserve it butty. I know you're getting a bit of stick, but do whatever suits you - not others. That's how you enjoy photography.

YeahOK

They're your photos. Do what you want with them.

Congrats!

Monasette

Paulw wrote: »

I don't see the logic. So, you spent your time, effort, equipment etc, and all for free? Just so you can see your name in the paper?

I see the logic. Someone gets to have a portfolio of published work, and the local newspaper show examples of his work along with his name. Much cheaper than buying an ad in the paper, and more useful.

Saint_Mel

Quick question, how do you go about getting your pictures published?
Is it a case of you bringing them to the paper/magazine and asking how much,
or do they approach you looking for shots of a particular event/place etc?

magicbastarder

Monasette wrote: »

I see the logic. Someone gets to have a portfolio of published work, and the local newspaper show examples of his work along with his name. Much cheaper than buying an ad in the paper, and more useful.

the issue being that with enough people doing this, photography (from a financial viewpoint) will be devalued to the point where you won't be able to make any money from it.

Cabaal

magicbastarder wrote: »

the issue being that with enough people doing this, photography (from a financial viewpoint) will be devalued to the point where you won't be able to make any money from it.

Both points are very valid imho, I would certainly agreement that it would massively affect people being paid and I de-value the whole job and this is something I am very wary about

At the end of the day the photos I took were for a community event and would have been taken for free regardless as they were to promote a local event so if I started looking for money from the paper its likely they wouldn't have done the two page spread they did

run_Forrest_run

well done Cabaal, never mind grief you are getting here for not trying to case in on the pics....it's not as if you gave your shots to National Geographic for free

as long as you are happy with the result then happy days.

magicbastarder

Cabaal wrote: »

At the end of the day the photos I took were for a community event and would have been taken for free regardless as they were to promote a local event so if I started looking for money from the paper its likely they wouldn't have done the two page spread they did

a friend of mine supplies sports shots to the local paper, from matches the club he plays for has taken part in. obviously, he's not in any position to ask for money, as there's as much in it for the club as there is for the paper.

Calina

Monasette wrote: »

I see the logic. Someone gets to have a portfolio of published work, and the local newspaper show examples of his work along with his name. Much cheaper than buying an ad in the paper, and more useful.

+1

I think we've been on this debate before and possibly the thread might need to be split off if it goes much further.

It's hard to break into the photography business yes, and there is a certain case to be made for the devaluation of the craft argument. However, reality and theory are two different things. It's damn hard to make money running a local newspaper and getting harder all the time. If I am not mistaken, the NUJ did a deal with some Louth newspaper that basically shafted their freelance photographers by allowing journalists to provide photographs sourced from mobile phones. So yes, it's getting very hard for photographers in certain niches.

An awful lot depends on how well you know your market. If you are aiming high, then reputation is hugely important and you will not get it by not having anything published at all unless you have something absolutely unique (like Muineach's helicopter crash a while back) that has an unusual sales value.

If you want to make money as a photographer in Ireland at the moment, with a few notable exceptions, the money is less in the art/freelance stuff and much, much more in the event side, weddings and family stuff etc. This would kill me. But there's a bit more money in that than there is in freelance sports photography.

I've heard both sides of the "don't let your pictures go for free" argument several times. The problem is there are an increasing number of semi/demisemi pros out there with DSLRs who might never have spent 1500E on a film SLR but who are flinging money hand over fist at digital accessories. Even the point and click armies are coming up with good printable photographs. The market is changing; the arguments are lining up on both sides in the area of stock and microstock for example. But I strongly believe that great photographers will always make money and that it is the mediocre pros who have most to fear from the democratisation of the photography market place.

Now, of course, I work in an extremely niche area and you have no idea how much time I spend thinking about world domination. Half our battle is marketing and sometimes, a well placed free photograph is worth more than the money you might have gotten if you sold a repro right to someone else. A lot depends on where that free repro takes you. In other words, the payback might not be immediate and it might not be in cold hard cash...it's up to you if you can see it.

Typhoon.

Well done Bar, i wouldnt worry too much about getting a few bob for that...the experience was worth more to you...and now the paper obviously know your capable so in the future when you do ask for money they'll know they'll get good pics

thumbs up

Paulw

Calina wrote: »

If you want to make money as a photographer in Ireland at the moment, with a few notable exceptions, the money is less in the art/freelance stuff and much, much more in the event side, weddings and family stuff etc. This would kill me. But there's a bit more money in that than there is in freelance sports photography.

There is clearly a lot more money in portraits/weddings and such, but there is still money to be made in sports and photojournalism. Even something is better than nothing. Every few euro add up and can be put towards more gear and stuff.

I don't know if you can make a living from sports photography, but don't forget that the majority of sports are at the weekends, and there is relatively easy money to be made there.

I have one paper group phoning me every week to cover events. Sometimes I take the assignment, and sometimes I don't. The joy of being freelance.

I wouldn't give away photos, unless there is a long term result from it - either in fully paid work later, or if it can be used for something (access to events etc).

My foot in to the paper was through a staff photographer of theirs that I talked to at the rugby games. He took my card (moo card), checked out my website and the images there, and a week later they were asking me to cover events for them. Since then I get a call a week to cover events.

There IS money out there to be made, but giving away your images isn't going to get you very far in the long run. They're in business, and the less they can pay staff and photographers, the more profit they make.

Just my experience.

YeahOK

Paulw wrote: »

My foot in to the paper was through a staff photographer of theirs that I talked to at the rugby games. He took my card (moo card), checked out my website and the images there, and a week later they were asking me to cover events for them. Since then I get a call a week to cover events.

Just my experience.

Anyone else want to share their story on how they got into paid work? I'd be interested to hear was it by knocking on doors constantly or right place right time?

kensutz

I just had the cheek to ask the local newspaper and it worked for me.

Zzippy

Well done Cabaal. The first of many hopefully.
Just got my first published too - if anyone has seen Irish Angler magazine (April edition) its the cover photo this month. Well chuffed!

LeoB

Well done on getting you images published, you will now be in the national library of Ireland having made a contribution to YOUR community!! I take photos at local G.A.A games and to see them in community news is great for me and the kids who are in them. Well done. They are your photos and be proud of the fact a eminent paper like that published your Images.

Paulw

It's always nice to be published. I enjoy seeing my images in my local paper. But, it's twice as nice to see the images and get paid. Money talks. Why shouldn't they pay you since they're not a charity, they're a business?

nilhg

Paulw wrote: »

There is clearly a lot more money in portraits/weddings and such, but there is still money to be made in sports and photojournalism. Even something is better than nothing. Every few euro add up and can be put towards more gear and stuff.

I don't know if you can make a living from sports photography, but don't forget that the majority of sports are at the weekends, and there is relatively easy money to be made there.





There IS money out there to be made, but giving away your images isn't going to get you very far in the long run. They're in business, and the less they can pay staff and photographers, the more profit they make.

Just my experience.

Paul, my understanding is that you have a decent dayjob which helps to finance your gear, do you think that it would be possible for somebody to survive and eventually make a reasonable living from full time freelance photography, and if not, do you think that a situation could arise where your (not you personally, but part-timers) presence will be seen as a threat by the full time pros?

Paulw

nilhg wrote: »

Paul, my understanding is that you have a decent dayjob which helps to finance your gear, do you think that it would be possible for somebody to survive and eventually make a reasonable living from full time freelance photography, and if not, do you think that a situation could arise where your (not you personally, but part-timers) presence will be seen as a threat by the full time pros?

Thankfully, my day job pays very well. Not quite as much as some people (looks at Leinsterman), but enough so I can afford all the nice gear.

The more people give images to the papers for free, the less papers need to buy images from freelance photographers.

The full time pros are either staff photographers, who would get the pick of the assignments first, or else are agency photographers who have contracts for images. I don't think these are really in danger.

It seems that most of the games that papers want freelancers to cover would be the lower league, local games.

To make any decent money though, you need to cover a good few events (2-3 per day at the weekend), and also get your images printed by a number of publications.

Some papers pay better than others, and it can depend on how many images they use too.

I don't know if you could make a living from it, but I know some in here are making a nice little bit from sports photography.

Of course, it's like everything. Supply and demand. If more hobby photographers submit to the papers, then there will be less need for staff and agency photographers, since the cheaper freelancer will be able to supply enough print quality images.

But, what's worse, the more people give away images, the less papers need to pay, and hence, the less money is out there for freelance photographers.

I can understand the logic that if you give them a free sample they may use you again, but personally I feel that if you can build up a quality portfolio (I used my website) then when you do contact them about submissions, they will see that you can consistently produce quality images. All the papers want is consistency.

There are certainly ways in to photography and getting images published that don't require giving away your photos for free.

Just my view, and I'm sure others will disagree, but I'm sure a few will agree too.