At least we've the best hidden stations in Europe...

jetsonx

Think about you local DART (or train) station...If you were a a complete foreigner to your area could you actually find it?

Driving around Dublin recently, It stuck me - of all the DART stations I passed - not one of them was clearly marked as a station.

Go to London and you will see their infamous Underground or old BR sign in an elevated position outside their stations, Frankfurt you will see a huge "S" or "U" sign, Paris has its well marked "Metro" signs...the list goes on.

Ireland...well we like to hide our little stations.

Do you think our stations are well marked or do you think the lack of any clear signage outside stations is just another sign of the hubris of Irish Rail?

Colm R

I misread your title, and missed the word "hidden".

Your completely correct though. Major problem is a lot of stations are not in the center of the town, e.g. Shankill. Not only is the station badly signposted, its also not very clear which way Shankill Village is from the station.

Also, one thing that bugs me is sinage telling you which platform number you are on or going towards. Take Pearse St., which has signs for platform 1 & 2. Northbound or Southbound would be more helpful.

All it takes for Irish Rail is to look at other countries systems that work and use them. But instead, IR take a stuborn attitude, where they refuse to copy other countries even though it is best practise.

patrickc

totaly agree, i was in killester recently, (think that was the one) and the station was signposted i some estate, no sign of the station though

Victor

Colm R wrote: »

Take Pearse St., which has signs for platform 1 & 2. Northbound or Southbound would be more helpful.

But Pearse Stn. is aligned roughly east-west!

Given that trains will occassionally operate from the 'wrong' platform (I think they did on Monday due to a train failure), platform number is correct, although the station display should indicate what trains are operating from what platform.

But cue an announcement at Malahide that the next southbound train would operate from the wrong platfrom and a northbound train arrives with "Mullingar" on the front.

Run_to_da_hills

Much of the dart line serves just a 50% catchment area while the other half serves the sea side. The reason for this is that it is built on an ancient railway line that was purposly kept away from the populations because of pollution from steam trains hense many of the stations are hidden in the middle of nowhere, ie DunLaoghaire, Salt Hill, Booterstown, Blackrock, Killiney, Shank Hill, (Until they built a housing estate around it).

MOH

I couldn't find the one in Harmonstown recently - I'd come out of it once before when it was dark so had a rough idea where it was but wasn't sure. Eventually asked someone, it's down a lane that looks like it runs in behind houses, with a sign on the lane wall a few yards in which you can't possibly see if you're coming from one direction. I'd imagine Killester wouldn't be easy to find either. Took a lucky guess which turned out to be right when looking for the new back entrance to Tara St last week.

Giving information to passengers isn't really on the IE list of priorities.

mikemac

Was about to mention Harmonstown. Of all the Dart stations I've used, it's definitly the hardest to find.

Victor

I went out to Clongriffen today, up Station Hill, looked over the wall there, sure enough was a vacant site.

Ham'nd'egger

Victor wrote: »

I went out to Clongriffen today, up Station Hill, looked over the wall there, sure enough was a vacant site.

There was a Baldoyle halt in years gone by, Vic; it may have been a throwback name from that long ago.

Victor

No, its in the middle of a plain. The 'hill' is the roof of an underground car park.

icdg

Two issues here. First, Irish Rail is terrible at putting signs outside stations to tell you they are railway stations.

Its not just local stations, either. Hueston Station, the biggest station in the country, has not one sign outside it to tell you its a railway station, or what its name is! No IE logo outside the premises whatsoever. There are a couple of signs on the Luas platforms but they relate to the tram stop, not the mainline station. Connolly had very little signage outside it until it was reconstructed (and got a massive IE Connolly Station sign outside the main enterance last summer).

The Maynooth line and DART stations all mostly (except of course, the western world's worst maintained train station, Broombridge) have signage outside them however, which is good - both IE (or DART, or both) logo and station name. Most other stations have only either an IE logo or have no signage whatsover (as in the case of Hueston)

A second problem is the lack of signage pointing to stations. Finding a TSM road sign signing a station is rare. In the UK you'll find plenty of TSM-compliant signs with BR (or NIR in the North) logos to tell you where your nearest station is. In fact I can't remember if the Irish TSM actually tell's you how to sign a railway station - I don't think it does... Irish Rail did erect back in the nineties a lot of fingerpost signs pointing to "Station" but these tended to be right outside the stations and a lot of them are gone or are decripit now.

bryanw

Yeh, there is actually no consistency with proper signage to train stations. It's rubbish. Not to mention when you actually get to the station. My nearest DART station, Glenageary, has a sign with all the writing rubbed off, so there is no way of actually knowing that it is in fact Glenageary Dart Station.

Then of course the the road signs (to most stations), as mentioned, don't always point in the right direction or exist at all.

Simple things like this can't be done, just highlights the need for the DTA who are capable of sorting little things as well as the big things and bring about some consistency.

We need a common logo across all modes of transport, perhaps the Dublin Bus logo as it's probably most recognisable. And a consistent way of differentiating between different modes. Things taken for granted in other places...

brettmirl

One thing that's always bugged me about Irish Rail is on the Dublin-Waterford route.

They refer to Bagnelstown as Muine Bheag on tickets, website, timetables etc. but when they are arriving at the station they call it Bagnelstown over the intercom.

Must confuse tourists and people not familar with the area a lot.

Paulj

Even some luas stations need better signage. For example the ones at Kilmacud and Ballaly on the green line are below the level of the road under a bridge yet there is very little signage indicating where it is. For Kilmacud i dont think there is any sign, you'd just need to know its there.

icdg

bryanw wrote: »

We need a common logo across all modes of transport, perhaps the Dublin Bus logo as it's probably most recognisable. And a consistent way of differentiating between different modes. Things taken for granted in other places...

In Dublin anyway. What I would do given my way is for, on the establishment of the DTA, for the Dublin Bus logo to be transfered to the DTA and used as a "logo for transport in Dublin" in the same way as the London Transport roundel has become a logo for transport in London. Dublin Bus could adopt a new logo for corporate and internal purposes, but it would be the current DB logo that would be used accross all modes of transport - buses & bus stops (all scheduled services under the DTA, not just the Dublin Bus ones), DART/Commuter rail services, Luas, Metro. You could have a different colour for each mode (the new version of the DB logo actually lends itself better to that than the old version, since its two-colour - the buses could keep yellow, trains could use green, and the Luas some sort of purple-silver version).

I realise that the DB logo is a stylised lowercase "db", but not a lot of people seem to realise this and most simply think it is a castle, the symbol of Dublin. It would be the cheapest way of doing things as you would not need to have another expensive rebranding of all bus stops (given that is exactly what is going on at present under Dublin Bus). Alternatively if Dublin Bus cannot be parted from its logo, resurrecting the old DUTC/CIE flying snail might be an idea, although that is (a) also owned by CIE and (b) way too similar to the TFL logo.

Simple logos work best, not complicated designs - which is why the BRB logo is still going strong, thirteen years after rail privatisation in the UK began, and no one seems to have even discussed replacing it!

The Denouncer

Grand Canal Dock now has some signs near Google there pointing to the station, at last

jetsonx

MOH wrote: »

I couldn't find the one in Harmonstown recently - I'd come out of it once before when it was dark so had a rough idea where it was but wasn't sure. Eventually asked someone, it's down a lane that looks like it runs in behind houses, with a sign on the lane wall a few yards in which you can't possibly see if you're coming from one direction.

What other European capital places its suburban rail stations down a lane behind a couple of houses...

If Ireland ever needs secret nuclear bunkers built - I would award the contract to Irish Rail because they would really know where to put them.

Our man in Havana

mick_irl wrote: »

One thing that's always bugged me about Irish Rail is on the Dublin-Waterford route.

They refer to Bagnelstown as Muine Bheag on tickets, website, timetables etc. but when they are arriving at the station they call it Bagnelstown over the intercom.

Must confuse tourists and people not familar with the area a lot.

The locals call it Bagnelstown not Muine Bheag. Also most train drivers/guards also only call it Bagnelstown.

I have only ever known the town as Bagnelstown. The first time I saw Muine Bheag was when looking at a train timetable.

Ham'nd'egger

jetsonx wrote: »

What other European capital places its suburban rail stations down a lane behind a couple of houses...

If Ireland ever needs secret nuclear bunkers built - I would award the contract to Irish Rail because they would really know where to put them.

The station came after the houses. Irish Rail didn't build it in the first place.

jjbrien

Enniscorthy is another staion tat springs to mind no sign posts telling you where the place is. Seapoint is down a small lane way so is dalkey as other posters say in the north they have a massive sign outside the staion saying nir but here no IE sign.

icdg

Today Pearse Station has had its green exterior signs (it being one of the few stations that had some!), which dated I believe from the 1980s, replaced with new black/white/orange signage in CIE 2000 font and with the Iarnrod Éireann and DART logos.

Now if they could put up similar signage outside other stations, it would be nice...

jrar

Given our national ineptitude with all things signage-related, why would anybody expect anything different or better from our national rail company ?!!?

Occidental

Bond-007 wrote: »

The locals call it Bagnelstown not Muine Bheag. Also most train drivers/guards also only call it Bagnelstown.

I have only ever known the town as Bagnelstown. The first time I saw Muine Bheag was when looking at a train timetable.

We had years of Edgeworthstown on the timetable and drivers announcing it as Mostrim

jetsonx

Passing Connolly Station today- not one prominent sign that it was a railway station. Sure, they had an escalator going up somewhere - that could have easily just of been another office block.

This is Connolly station - one of the so-called major station in Ireland - and guess what Irish Rail have hidden it.

Well Done Irish Rail.

icdg

Now in fairness, at least Connolly Station has a massive "IE Connolly Station" over the main enterance to the station. Granted, most people tend to use the side enterances to the station rather than the main enterance (which tends to be used mostly by Luas passengers), even then there are "IE Connolly Station" signs on the doors (you need to be right next to it to see them though). Even back in the 1980s/1990s, there was a "Connolly" sign beside the old Connolly DART station enterance, further north on Amiens Street (the enterance is closed since the early 2000s and the sign is now gone, I believe).

Contrast this with Hueston, which has no exterior signage whatsover, and has never had any in my lifetime at any rate.

Solair

Ah sure it's Ireland. Why would you want a sign? Doesn't everyone know where the station is?

I actually think the people who put up signs in Ireland all suffer from some kind of a strange syndrome that causes them to be unable to realise that people may not be locals and may need information!

pork99

icdg wrote: »

Now in fairness, at least Connolly Station has a massive "IE Connolly Station" over the main enterance to the station.

No - it's when you go inside and try to find the platform the Belfast train leaves from that the fun starts. Completely inadequate signage. What sort of utter cretins are making these decisions?

The same with signage on the M50 for the Galway exit. Very easily missed.

Why can't we do information graphics? I suspect as a nation we suffer from a love of obscurity and the opaque & don't like letting any of those foreign feckers know what's going on!

Ham'nd'egger

pork99 wrote: »

No - it's when you go inside and try to find the platform the Belfast train leaves from that the fun starts. Completely inadequate signage. What sort of utter cretins are making these decisions?

The Belfast train leaves from the same platform that the 30 foot x70 foot destination board directly in front of the platform entrance says it leaves from; it usually being one of the 3 nearest with the dedicated Dublin Belfast trains parked in it for the last 13 years:rolleyes:

MOH

Hamndegger wrote: »

The Belfast train leaves from the same platform that the 30 foot x70 foot destination board directly in front of the platform entrance says it leaves from; it usually being one of the 3 nearest with the dedicated Dublin Belfast trains parked in it for the last 13 years:rolleyes:

I think the issue might be more with finding the actual platform than finding out which platform it goes from. They moved the Sligo train over there recently (whichever one starts way out - 1 or 2?) and it's not the easiest to work out exactly where you're supposed to go the first time, the sign seemed to be pointing into that partitioned off area off to the right.

And the whole point is that people who haven't been taking the train for the past 13 years might need to find it too, hence the need for adequate signage.

Ham'nd'egger

MOH wrote: »

I think the issue might be more with finding the actual platform than finding out which platform it goes from. They moved the Sligo train over there recently (whichever one starts way out - 1 or 2?) and it's not the easiest to work out exactly where you're supposed to go the first time, the sign seemed to be pointing into that partitioned off area off to the right.

And the whole point is that people who haven't been taking the train for the past 13 years might need to find it too, hence the need for adequate signage.

The signs actually are adequate. Big board says go to platform X, signs for platform X are rather large and bright and PA announces train at platform X. In Connolly the main station houses 1-4 so it is not as if they are hidden from view and hard to find.

KC61

Hamndegger wrote: »

The signs actually are adequate. Big board says go to platform X, signs for platform X are rather large and bright and PA announces train at platform X. In Connolly the main station houses 1-4 so it is not as if they are hidden from view and hard to find.

I'd have to admit that I didn't spot the side entrance from the main concourse to the waiting area for Platform 2 the first time that I used it.

MOH

There's a sign as you pass the turnstiles showing (and I might have the numbers wrong) platform 2 straight ahead, and platform 1 straight then right.
There's a kind of partly partitioned off area on the right (as you come from the other side it says enterprise passengers exit here), which I initially took to be the route to platform 1. There is a small sign a bit further directing you to platform , but it's easy to miss when it's crowded and there's trains on both platforms.

Or maybe I'm just blind

pork99

MOH wrote: »

I think the issue might be more with finding the actual platform than finding out which platform it goes from. They moved the Sligo train over there recently (whichever one starts way out - 1 or 2?) and it's not the easiest to work out exactly where you're supposed to go the first time, the sign seemed to be pointing into that partitioned off area off to the right.

And the whole point is that people who haven't been taking the train for the past 13 years might need to find it too, hence the need for adequate signage.

I knew which platform it left from as I'd used that train before - I missed the new entrance to the platform because I did not know it had moved and when I got to the old entrance to the platform - now shut off - there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to tell you were the entrance to that platform is now located. What's needed is something called "user-centered design" instead of "Iarnrod-Eireann-staff-who-don't-give-a-feck-centered design"

KC61

pork99 wrote: »

I knew which platform it left from as I'd used that train before - I missed the new entrance to the platform because I did not know it had moved and when I got to the old entrance to the platform - now shut off - there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to tell you were the entrance to that platform is now located. What's needed is something called "user-centered design" instead of "Iarnrod-Eireann-staff-who-don't-give-a-feck-centered design"

I have to say that I'd used the Enterprise on and off too and on my first visit after the new entrance to P2 was introduced I was somewhat confused as well, especially as I had got off a DART and walked down P4 and was trying to access P2 from the platform side of the barriers.

Polar101

KC61 wrote: »

I have to say that I'd used the Enterprise on and off too and on my first visit after the new entrance to P2 was introduced I was somewhat confused as well, especially as I had got off a DART and walked down P4 and was trying to access P2 from the platform side of the barriers.

Same here. The barriers were open so I walked to the platform -I was early so there was no-one else around. After a while IE staff showed up, and asked me where I was going, and then asked me to use the new entrance instead. I did notice the sign afterwards, but it wasn't too obvious. IE staff were very polite, though.

As for the original topic, I've noticed that there is usually a sign pointing to the stations - the not-so-simple problem is finding the sign.

Now, about tourists - I've had quite a few tourists and foreigners ask me which train to take, usually it's a DART station they want to travel to.. I understand "All stations to Howth/Bray" doesn't help a lot if you don't know the area or are in a hurry.