Is it worth buying a 95 Carina with rust

workaccount

Hi there,
I have just looked at a 95 Carina which has been well looked after and runs and drives very well.

The only problem with it is it's starting to rust around the sunroof and the edge of the bonnet. There is also abit on the side where it once got a rub. Great nick overall otherwise.

The rust is rind of crumply though especially around the sunroof.

These things seem to go for around a grand or 1100....I can get this for 500 but it has no NCT. I think it will pass through the NCT fairly easily. The guy just wants rid of it so he does not want the hassle of the NCT.

So I was thinking of buying it, putting it through the NCT. I;m not sure whether I would hold on the it for a while or sell it for a little profit.

I just don't know about the rust thing though. I do not have the opportunity to take photographs but I'm sure if I look around the net I will find a pic with similiar type rust if you need to see it.

Thanks and regards.

DublinDilbert

Wouldn't worry about the rust if its just on the surface...

They are a great car, lovely and comfortable, fairly powerful and great on petrol....

sc4rf4ce

as far as im aware. the car would fail the nct due to rust

S.I.R

grind the rust out then fill and paint it....

cost you about 40 euro in supplys ( not sure of the going rate on paint ) but still they are among the best cars made by toyota to this day.

workaccount

sc4rf4ce wrote: »

as far as im aware. the car would fail the nct due to rust

Can somebody please confirm this? I would imagined it would only be bad structural rust.

S.I.R wrote: »

grind the rust out then fill and paint it....

cost you about 40 euro in supplys ( not sure of the going rate on paint ) but still they are among the best cars made by toyota to this day.

I would like to do this alright....is there some book I could get to show me the correct way to take out the sunroof etc. Also can a amateur really pull something like this off?

bman

workaccount wrote: »

I would like to do this alright....is there some book I could get to show me the correct way to take out the sunroof etc. Also can a amateur really pull something like this off?

Just done this with a similar car that had 4 patches of rust on the roof (two were quite bad). Very easy to fix. Lots of info on the net on how to go about it. It'll be time consuming though (depending on how exact you are). And it probably won't turn out perfect if it's your first time but it'll definitely pass the NCT.

Word of advise: smoothing down the isopon to make it look and feel like the roof and the isopon are one is the most important part (as I found out afterwards!). Otherwise it'll be noticeable that there's bumps in the repaired area when the paint goes on.

peasant

Theres, rust, rust and rust.

Rust on which you fail the NCT as far as I know has to be structural, i.e holes in parts that are essential for vehicle safety, none of which you seem to have.

Then there is cosmetical rust ...edge of the bonnet, along a scrape. Grind it down, fill it, primer it, paint it ...done

And lastly there is pain in the ass rust. The sunroof would fall into that category. Left untreated sooner or later you will have water running down your neck and into the car after every rain, starting rust in all sorts of inaccessible places (if it hasn't done so already)

Rust around sunroofs isn't that easy to fix. You usually can't get at it with a grinder, never mind doing a proper job with filler. Instead it will need rusty bits cut out and good ones welded in instead. Which is difficult and expensive, if not altogether impossible in some cases.

The state of the rust on/near the sunroof would be the decision maker for me.
Is it just a bit brown or are there actual holes? Poke around and find out. If there are holes that look difficult to fix, I'd recommend walking away.

EDIT
I don't mean the actual sunroof panel itself, but the guide channels and seals ...that's where water collects and then finds its way inside the vehicle, only to start a nasty rust nest in a pillar or sill somewhere that you can't see until one day the bottom falls out of the car.

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

Theres, rust, rust and rust.

Rust on which you fail the NCT as far as I know has to be structural, i.e holes in parts that are essential for vehicle safety, none of which you seem to have.

Then there is cosmetical rust ...edge of the bonnet, along a scrape. Grind it down, fill it, primer it, paint it ...done

And lastly there is pain in the ass rust. The sunroof would fall into that category. Left untreated sooner or later you will have water running down your neck and into the car after every rain, starting rust in all sorts of inaccessible places (if it hasn't done so already)

Rust around sunroofs isn't that easy to fix. You usually can't get at it with a grinder, never mind doing a proper job with filler. Instead it will need rusty bits cut out and good ones welded in instead. Which is difficult and expensive, if not altogether impossible in some cases.

The state of the rust on/near the sunroof would be the decision maker for me.
Is it just a bit brown or are there actual holes? Poke around and find out. If there are holes that look difficult to fix, I'd recommend walking away.

EDIT
I don't mean the actual sunroof panel itself, but the guide channels and seals ...that's where water collects and then finds its way inside the vehicle, only to start a nasty rust nest in a pillar or sill somewhere that you can't see until one day the bottom falls out of the car.

Ok I bought it after checking the rust again. Rust looks cosmetic and if water is getting through anywhere I would imagine it's very very little.

I have attached a few pics....Does this look like I can do a DIY job on these?....I have one or two books on the way from amazon on repairing bodywork including repairing rust.







It's like this at both sides.


I've also got a little problem with air leaking around the sunroof while driving. I hope to get that if I take the sunroof off to do repairs.

peasant

how long are you planning on keeping this car?

If not too long and unwilling to to a "full restoration" kind of job on it, here's my suggestion for a cheap and nasty fix:

1) the rust needs to go.
get yourself (a loan of) a Dremel like tool and grind off all the rusty bits down to shiny metal, try to get in under the sunroof frame as far as you can (hence the Dremel with its small grinding bits)

2) the area needs to be protected
get yourself rust inhibiting primer and paint the blank metal with that. Use a brush and force the primer right under the sunroof frame with that.

3) the area needs to protected further
get normal primer and paint over the rust inhibitor one

4) the area can be levelled
if you are in a perfectionist frame of mind you can now get youself some filler and sandpaper and fill/ sand/fill /sand all those gauges that you ground into the sheetmetal with your Dremel to a nice and even finish ..if you're not a perfectionist you can omit this step and let everybody see that actually tried to stop the rust

5) the area needs to be sealed
get yourself some sikaflex 221 black, or some polyurethane based windscreen sealant (black) from your nearest windscreen place and run a nice bead of sealant around the sunroof frame, making sure that the sealant creeps in right under the frame and forms a nice seal from top of frame to top of roof

6) now the whole area can be painted
If you've done step 4) I'd suggest to try and do a nice job in the original colour ...if not, run some masking tape as far out as the primer goes around the whole sunroof, cover the rest of the roof (and sunroof itself) and paint the inside in sunroof-frame-black (alternatively satin matt black out of a can will do just fine)


all this only works of course if your Dremel DOESNT go right through the roof in several places (which it just might) ...in that case, buy sunroof next size up and have that professionally fitted

biko

www.ncts.ie/nctmanual.pdf

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

how long are you planning on keeping this car?

If not too long and unwilling to to a "full restoration" kind of job on it, here's my suggestion for a cheap and nasty fix:

1) the rust needs to go.
get yourself (a loan of) a Dremel like tool and grind off all the rusty bits down to shiny metal, try to get in under the sunroof frame as far as you can (hence the Dremel with its small grinding bits)

2) the area needs to be protected
get yourself rust inhibiting primer and paint the blank metal with that. Use a brush and force the primer right under the sunroof frame with that.

3) the area needs to protected further
get normal primer and paint over the rust inhibitor one

4) the area can be levelled
if you are in a perfectionist frame of mind you can now get youself some filler and sandpaper and fill/ sand/fill /sand all those gauges that you ground into the sheetmetal with your Dremel to a nice and even finish ..if you're not a perfectionist you can omit this step and let everybody see that actually tried to stop the rust

5) the area needs to be sealed
get yourself some sikaflex 221 black, or some polyurethane based windscreen sealant (black) from your nearest windscreen place and run a nice bead of sealant around the sunroof frame, making sure that the sealant creeps in right under the frame and forms a nice seal from top of frame to top of roof

6) now the whole area can be painted
If you've done step 4) I'd suggest to try and do a nice job in the original colour ...if not, run some masking tape as far out as the primer goes around the whole sunroof, cover the rest of the roof (and sunroof itself) and paint the inside in sunroof-frame-black (alternatively satin matt black out of a can will do just fine)


all this only works of course if your Dremel DOESNT go right through the roof in several places (which it just might) ...in that case, buy sunroof next size up and have that professionally fitted

In a rush now so don't have time to answer this post properly....I will be back to do so shortly.

Just to throw this out though and rule it out as early as possible if it's just "stupid" but what about getting a new roof (off an old car). Sanding it all down etc.....do a nice paint job and stick it on again.
Would this be feasible?? I have not actually looked to see how large that whole panel is but I assume it just comes down to the bottom of the pillars. I'd do away with the sunroof to feck....twould be nice to have it but too much hassle to fit one back in!

I might just invest in a spray gun and compressor as I am looking into building kit cars and stuff in the near future.

peasant

workaccount wrote: »

but what about getting a new roof (off an old car). Sanding it all down etc.....do a nice paint job and stick it on again.
Would this be feasible??

no way, Jose

simply impossible to do correctly for an amateur ...


Having thought about this some more, the simplest solution for your rust problem really is to get a new (or second hand) sunroof that is slightly bigger than the old one + rust.

Cut a nice big hole into roof, thus removing rust, fill with new/replacement sunroof, done.

and nobody will ever know about the rust.

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

no way, Jose

simply impossible to do correctly for an amateur ...


Having thought about this some more, the simplest solution for your rust problem really is to get a new (or second hand) sunroof that is slightly bigger than the old one + rust.

Cut a nice big hole into roof, thus removing rust, fill with new/replacement sunroof, done.

and nobody will ever know about the rust.

When you say simply impossible to do, do you mean the spray job or to fit a new panel?

As regards fitting a bigger sunroof, dya reckon I'd be able to manage it?

peasant

You cannot simply "cut off" the roof of a car and "put on" a new one. There are complex joints at the pillars with multiple welds that all have structural significance.

As for fitting the sunroof ..I don't know your skill level ..but some windscreen place would fit one of those aftermarket type sunroofs in about an hour (or at least they used to)

Senna

Dont think anyone mentioned it but you know the rust treatment stuff, cant remember what its call, but you brush it onto the rust, then leave it to work for a while, it turns the rush solid and then you grind it etc..

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

You cannot simply "cut off" the roof of a car and "put on" a new one. There are complex joints at the pillars with multiple welds that all have structural significance.

As for fitting the sunroof ..I don't know your skill level ..but some windscreen place would fit one of those aftermarket type sunroofs in about an hour (or at least they used to)

Senna wrote: »

Dont think anyone mentioned it but you know the rust treatment stuff, cant remember what its call, but you brush it onto the rust, then leave it to work for a while, it turns the rush solid and then you grind it etc..

So then what do you think?

Grind and fill
or
Cut and fit

btw what do you make of that rust peasant?? It's beginning to look really bad isn't it, what has caused it do you think?

peasant

Wouldn't like to comment on exactly how bad the rust is without having poked around in it myself.

What caused it is bad fitting of the (most likely aftermarket) sunroof. Water could get in under the frame and just sit there and desolve the metal.

If it was my car, I'd grind and fill ...and if the grinding shows up massive holes, rund and find a bigger sunroof.

Slidey

I actually bought a 94 carinna e last week with the exact same prob, tho a little more advanced. 200 euro.
Sold it to a taxi driver a few hours later for 300, he needed an engine. It is really a non starter in my opinon. I believe the roof will fail under strucual rust and the prob will fail ya for it and fixing it in a way that you dont get bubbles of rust in a few months time would cost a fortune

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

Wouldn't like to comment on exactly how bad the rust is without having poked around in it myself.

What caused it is bad fitting of the (most likely aftermarket) sunroof. Water could get in under the frame and just sit there and desolve the metal.

If it was my car, I'd grind and fill ...and if the grinding shows up massive holes, rund and find a bigger sunroof.

Just when you said that there I realised that it is aftermarket and badly fitted. The roof light inside was moved a little too far back and the fabric on the ceiling is not pulled across very tightly.

If there was big holes after grinding could I not just weld a plate underneath and then fill it? Would that not be better than fitting a new sunroof?

slideways wrote: »

and fixing it in a way that you dont get bubbles of rust in a few months time would cost a fortune

Do you think so...how would the rust return so quickly if it was properly primed etc.?

peasant

Rust always returns ...the question just is how quickly.

It is impossible to remove all rust by grinding, there will always be a rest left behind (usually looking black from the grinding, but underneath it's still rust) that will bubble up again. If you've done a really thorough job in grinding, priming and painting, it will take a good while for that to happen, if you were sloppy it could be back within weeks.


The only way to get rid of rust is to cut out all affected areas and replace with new sheet metal (welded in). The problem is that it is a tad difficult to weld in patches on the roof and make it look somewhat decent, there's a skill involved (that I, for one, wouldn't have)

Running a jigsaw around all the rust and fitting a bigger roof on the other hand is comparatively simpler. (just don't forget to treat the edges against rust)

workaccount

peasant wrote: »

Rust always returns ...the question just is how quickly.

It is impossible to remove all rust by grinding, there will always be a rest left behind (usually looking black from the grinding, but underneath it's still rust) that will bubble up again. If you've done a really thorough job in grinding, priming and painting, it will take a good while for that to happen, if you were sloppy it could be back within weeks.


The only way to get rid of rust is to cut out all affected areas and replace with new sheet metal (welded in). The problem is that it is a tad difficult to weld in patches on the roof and make it look somewhat decent, there's a skill involved (that I, for one, wouldn't have)

Running a jigsaw around all the rust and fitting a bigger roof on the other hand is comparatively simpler. (just don't forget to treat the edges against rust)

Hmmm, I understand your logic regarding the rust.

I just don't understand how wrecks to riches sell their cars on discovery turbo.

They take old cars from the 60's and restore and modernise them. I think I have only seen one episode where they had to replace all the panels due to the rust being too bad.

Most of the times they just take out the rust and repair the panels. These cars then sell for a 10's of thousands. Who'd pay something like that if it's going to rust inside a year or two?

xt40

this is a 500€ car and hardly a classic. would it not be more sensible to just drive it and not worry about how it looks. if the op wanted one that looked good,, he should have bought another one

workaccount

xt40 wrote: »

this is a 500€ car and hardly a classic. would it not be more sensible to just drive it and not worry about how it looks. if the op wanted one that looked good,, he should have bought another one

Eh who ever said anything about it looking good? I wanted to treat it as it continuously decays the bodywork...looking good would just be an added benefit.

It would probably need to be done for the NCT aswell.

Jeez, read the feckin' thread like!

maidhc

workaccount wrote: »

Most of the times they just take out the rust and repair the panels. These cars then sell for a 10's of thousands. Who'd pay something like that if it's going to rust inside a year or two?

That is the way things are! Most owners of classic cars will tell you it is a constant battle to keep rust at bay!

xt40

workaccount wrote: »

Eh who ever said anything about it looking good? I wanted to treat it as it continuously decays the bodywork...looking good would just be an added benefit.

It would probably need to be done for the NCT aswell.

Jeez, read the feckin' thread like!

if you read the thread yourself you yould know that its not structural, therefore nothing to do with the nct. if you are worried about the sunroof leaking, spend a fiver on some carpet tape and seal it up

xt40

workaccount wrote: »

Most of the times they just take out the rust and repair the panels. These cars then sell for a 10's of thousands. Who'd pay something like that if it's going to rust inside a year or two?

it wont. this time round it will have been properly treated and any new owner will probably look after it a lot better, garage it and drive it less than the original owner

Timmaay

If your only concern is getting it though the nct, I would do nothing, see if it passes the nct, and if it doesnt, grider off the rust and slap some paint of it. Its only a few bubbles, The arse isn't going to fall out of the car because of it!!!

And I definitely wouldn't bother taking the sun roof out and jig sawing a bigger hole in it! How much will a bigger sunroof cost, you will have lots of fun fitting a new one:rolleyes:. I think some of the poeple here are loosing the run of themselves, the usual BS on the motors forum.

Slidey

Now thats a rusty carina e sunroof!