Taking my Oil boiler out had enough

Jason Clarke

Hi Guys,


Well I've had enough of the price of Oil, Its costing far to much and Its time for a change.

I've decided to Install a Wood Pellet Boiler as this will cost half the price of the Oil Boiler to run, yes I know Its expensive to buy but with the grant @ €3000 and pellets half the cost of oil I'll have the cost saved In a few years.

So what Wood Pellet systems are you using?

And where do you buy your pellets from?

Thanks Jason

Victor

Moved from Home Appliances to Renewable Energies.

BigglesMcGee

Jason Clarke wrote: »

Hi Guys,


Well I've had enough of the price of Oil, Its costing far to much and Its time for a change.

I've decided to Install a Wood Pellet Boiler as this will cost half the price of the Oil Boiler to run, yes I know Its expensive to buy but with the grant @ €3000 and pellets half the cost of oil I'll have the cost saved In a few years.

So what Wood Pellet systems are you using?

And where do you buy your pellets from?

Thanks Jason

You should do a little bit more homework on the energy conversion from pellets to heat in your home compared to oil. Its not really any less expensive at all.

AckwelFoley

To say it costs half the price of oil to run is not fully accurate.

Biomass such as wood pellet however is df a beter option than oil, but the key factor is preparation and compitent installation and comissioning. You need to be able to store the woodpellets properly, and only buy in bulk. If you dont buy in bulk.you will make no saving.

Im not trying to turn you off it .. im in the business and work for a leading supplier, we've sold hundreds of cast iron boilers and have only evr had problems from poor quality pellets being used and boiler installation by tradesmen that were not able to do what they were certified to do.

Just because th are regd and have done the course on installation sadly does not mean they will be suitable to do the work. Its cost us alot of money to send out our engineers to rectify poor comissioning.

Jason Clarke

BigglesMcGee

well I've done my sums and your wrong there is a saving by changing over.:D

snyper

Thanks for the info, I've been doing alot of research lately and also spoken to a number a people that have installed a wood pellet boiler, as you say if the Installation and comissioning is done correctly you will have a troble free system with a saving off around 40%
I've spoken with a company that seens to know what there doing and will more then likely be buying from them over the summer. Well thats if we get a summer:D

Thanks Jason

sydthebeat

jason, please post here the results of your 'sums'.....
wood pellets are getting a bad rep lately and some positive input would be greatly appreciated.

BigglesMcGee

sydthebeat wrote: »

jason, please post here the results of your 'sums'.....
wood pellets are getting a bad rep lately and some positive input would be greatly appreciated.

+1

Id love to see them too.

AckwelFoley

sydthebeat wrote: »

jason, please post here the results of your 'sums'.....
wood pellets are getting a bad rep lately and some positive input would be greatly appreciated.

The savings are in the region of 20 - 25%

The "bad rep" has really nothing to do with the principal of the woodpellet system.

Proper pellets, delieverd with a dust to pellet ratio of no more than 5% and properly stored in an adequet storage unit, you will have a virtually trouble free system.

Look, wood pellet tec is not new.. its just new to paddy, and when paddy gets his paws on some thing new you know hes going to fcuk it up.

I'm considering the idea of using a log boiler, because I have a large supply of scrap wood as well as the fact it could be used to burn other biomas materials.

jackblacky

I've been using a wood pellet boiler for the past 9 months and find it super compared to the gas guzzling oil system I had b4. I have only had one experience of a malfunction due to my pellets running low much to my embarrasment after a nasty call to the supplier, who in turn dispatched a technician rapidly and sorted the issue in ten seconds flat. I am saving at least 40% compared to my oil system as Jason has pointed out. What would anyone suggest as an alternative to wood pellets with oil prices spirraling???
It seems that the "they give too much trouble" and "new technology stay away" pundits are running out of puff and any issues are down to misuse or using bad plumbers/comissioners/pellets or shabby suppliers. Go with a reputable company and you should have no issues.

Sparky78

Was considering a wood pellet boiler but had a change of mind for now because
1 I'd have to spend 15000 now on building the garage which I don't need at the moment or have the cash for, to house the boiler and storage area.
2 they cost up to 15000 to buy a decent 1(again short on cash and 15000 will buy alot of insulation)
3 Now that all new builds have to have a renewable system there will be a much bigger demand for wood pellet boilers and therefore pellets. Will there be enough supply of pellets?If not you could see the price of pellets rising very quickly like oil is at the moment.

Instead I'm spending my money on insulation and putting in a condensing combi boiler. I'll plumb the house to accept the wood pellet system in the future when i have more money and the pellet supply is more clear.

Jason Clarke

OK here Is the Info I have been told.


Price of bulk pellet €245 per/ton

2 ton pellets = 1000 litres oil. so €490 = €830 ish

The Boiler I'm looking at Is 100 modulated.

I've spoke to 2 plumbers that have this system and this is what they had to say. (they have no link with the company i'm thinking of buying from but the do own the same system)

Plumber 1.In the winter months It was costing €50 per week on oil and now It is costing me €27 a week on pellets, my house is 2800 square feet and I'm using the 24kw boiler.

Plumber 2 I've been using 2 tanks of oil in average the last few years and now have to pellet system and in the last year I've used nearly 4 ton, yes there is a very good saving but use good quality pellets.


I've also spoken to several home owners that use the same system and have yet to hear negitive feedback.

Jason

Jason Clarke

Sparky78,

they cost up to 15000 to buy a decent 1(

WOW where have you been shopping, I've got a quote of €8300 which includes boiler,indoor silo, flue's etc. I'm getting €3000 of a grant so its going to cost me €5300

You could also check out an outdoor silo, no need to spend €15000 on a garage.

Or the all in one unit, thats insulated shed, boiler and indoor silo for under €12000

Ive looked at every option and never seen prices your talking about

Jason

jackblacky

Jason I would recommend the wp boiler and mine cost similar to the quotes you are getting (actually €8450 all in) Sparky what type of system are you being specced for? From what I see there are some systems that promote the bells and whistles but at the end of the day why spend double on a unit that will always be just a means of heating your gaff ,over a system that will do the same job for half the price......

Sparky78

Hi Jason and jack,
I was given a price of over 14000 for the KWB boiler.Might investigate the outdoor silo all the same.
Still concerned about the future supply of pellets!

Please PM me info on your boiler make.

Thanks

Mark

whitelightrider

Guys we too are looking at heating options for a new build. Have heard too many bad stories about wood pellet boilers so we're not going with that. We're looking to use solar panels and an LPG Gas boiler. How does Gas compare to Oil for running cost?

sydthebeat

whitelightrider wrote: »

Guys we too are looking at heating options for a new build. Have heard too many bad stories about wood pellet boilers so we're not going with that. We're looking to use solar panels and an LPG Gas boiler. How does Gas compare to Oil for running cost?

What bad stories have you heard??

Well there have been a number of threads here that have highlighted shortcomings in wpb's. They all appear to be pointing to poor installation & poor quality pellets rather than the boilers themselves.

Chimpster

Deleted User wrote: »

Well there have been a number of threads here that have highlighted shortcomings in wpb's. They all appear to be pointing to poor installation & poor quality pellets rather than the boilers themselves.

Wood Pellet Boiler.... I have one running in my house for the last 9 months. I have had no problems apart from my element going after 6 months and this was replaced by the supplier within 24 hours. Its a mid range Danish boiler. The whole solution including bulk outdoor silo cost just under 8500.

Important points...

1. Go with a reputable supplier. There are a few well established at this stage.

2. GO with a decent fuel provider : Kedco, Timber Pro, Firestix to name but a few.

3. Go bulk, and if you go bulk dont try and make your own silo. Get a proper one, indoor is preferable but JFC have an outdoor silo that looks robust but time will tell.

4. Make sure your supplier tells you how to run and maintain your boiler. If its a mid range boiler then you will have to clean the ash pan ever 2/3 weeks. Its no big deal but needs to be done.

5. Get it serviced once a year.

6. Use insulated piping between the garage and the house.

7. Make sure you flue has at least 1m clearance of the garage roof if possible. Alot of boilers rely on natural draft.

Thats my tuppence worth.

ardara1

This was on RTE a few weeks ago - worth the look

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/230-2341720-320-180.smil

sydthebeat

ardara1 wrote: »

This was on RTE a few weeks ago - worth the look

http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/230-2341720-320-180.smil

doesnt give any comparisons between what they were spending on WP vrs Oil...... seems again like a case of badly installed boilers.

whitelightrider

sydthebeat wrote: »

What bad stories have you heard??

Poor installation is the big one I guess. But the fact that you need a bulk tank to make it economical is another bad point.

How would gas compare to oil for heating a house?

Doctor_L

If you want to get good efficiencies from a pellet bolier system they recommend that you use a 1000 litre plus insulated buffer tank as the wood pellets take longer to get up to heat than oil.

The pellets heat the buffer tank and the buffer tank circulates.

Would be interested to hear how many people installed a buffer tank as part of their wood pellet system.

Liam

echristie

Is anyone prepared to share thoughts/ recommend suppliers/commissioning of wood pellet boilers? We will be buying one soon but not a clue what and from whom. Where do you start?
Cheers
eileen

Doctor_L

A good place to start is at Tom McGinely's wood pellet boiler blog. http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/. Tom has no hidden agenda but has plenty of experience with these boliers.

I spoke to my local plumber the other day. He has installed 7 and later taken back out 3 of them as the owners had multiple problems with them.

A colleague of mine has 1 and had numerous teething problems getting it up and running. (Wiring issues)

A wood pellet boiler needs to be serviced twice a year to keep it burning efficiently, an oil burner needs to be serviced once e year.

2.14 tonnes of pellets = 1000 litres of oil. so you really need to be buying in bulk as Tom points out in an article buying bagged pellets is not the most cost effective way to go http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/2008/03/wood-pellet-cost-more-than-oil.html

The old adage of buyer beware holds true, talk to people who have them as they have nothing to sell. Get a list of installations from a company that is trying to sell them and go look. Have a chat with your local plumbers, they are usually the people who get called in when things go wrong. Many of them would have also installed several types.

I would recommend a silo/hopper and a large insulated buffer tank. I haven't installed one yet as I feel that the market is still in its infancy and costs will come down. When I do install I intend to leave the oil burner in the shed on standby in case of breakdown etc.

I have spent about 5,000 Euros upgrading the insulation on my home so that it doesn't lose heat easily. Now thats complete I intend to have a look at the whole area again.

Heatmerchants supply decent burners and solar panels so I will probably start there.

As chimpster recommends use good quality pellets, my local plumber saw this problem a few times.

Regards

Liam

AckwelFoley

echristie wrote: »

Is anyone prepared to share thoughts/ recommend suppliers/commissioning of wood pellet boilers? We will be buying one soon but not a clue what and from whom. Where do you start?
Cheers
eileen

There is a new regulation comming out that will make alot of the ones on offer now not suitable for the grant.

Doctor_L

Doctor_L wrote: »

I spoke to my local plumber the other day. He has installed 7 and later taken back out 3 of them as the owners had multiple problems with them.

With nearly 50% of wpb's being removed (based on the above figures), does this mean that there is a ready supply of cheap secondhand units or are the manufacturers/suppliers taking them back?

echristie

Thanks Liam, will have a look at the blog tonight. Read somewhere else that when Paddy gets hold of something <new> it tends to go wrong. That seems to be my impression as well and I will defin buy a boiler from Germ/Austria or Scandinavia. Our calcs show bulk buying of pellet has 10+years payback due to cost of silo (nevermind space) so I am very happy with large quantities of bags. Installation and customer training seems to be crucial. Quality of pellet seems obvious. It cannot be worse than what we had --- freezing old house, no insulation and oil. Now it is massive, old bit well-insulated the rest hyper- insulated. Roll on summer. Been battening down the hatches this afternoon to try to stop the tons of hailstones ripping this morning's render off the walls. Think it was a success. Cheers
E

AckwelFoley

Deleted User wrote: »

With nearly 50% of wpb's being removed (based on the above figures), does this mean that there is a ready supply of cheap secondhand units or are the manufacturers/suppliers taking them back?

In our case we are taking the old model units off the displays in the shops and selling them off.

The thing is that you wont get the grant with them.. so im not sure if its worth it.

Jason Clarke

Hi Sparky, Hi Everyone.


Yes I do believe there are poor systems out there and poor quality pellets but I think the main problem is workmanship in regards to having it installed by someone who has no knowlege and wpb.

I've been visited by Kedco Energy a few weeks ago and was pretty impressed with what they had to offer, they have a Business Development Manager In the Galway area and he was more then helpfull,

I asked him every question under the sun, they have over 30,000 tonnes of pellets in there warehouse in Cork and they are made in Latvia, also there Kedco boilers don't need a buffer tank as they are 100% modulated and is made in Denmark.

So yesterday I was in Cork and decided to check out the show room and warehouse, I got chatting with a guy called Mehall Fitzgerald and he showed me everything from a running boiler to a big ware house full of pellets.

Overall I think I can trust this company and I do believe there producks works very well.

Jason Clarke

jackblacky

Jason

I am using this very system you mention and would highly recommend. I have had no issues but saying that I take care of the system and empty ash pans twice a month and do a quick clean every few months on the heat exchangers. There is nothing to it and once the simple maintenance is carried out I cant see you having a problem.
I think some users just ignore the maintenance side of things and do stupid things and then blame the product. You seem to be doing your homework and that will stand to you. They are also helpful to deal with which is a bonus.

Doctor_L

I see on the kedco website that they require a local plumber for the installation and Kedco supply and commission it.

Does that mean that the plumber has to be sei approved for the grant or is the grant covered by the fact that Kedco supply and commission it.

Would like to use my local plumber who has installed kedco but is not SEI approved.

Thanks

Liam

jackblacky

Also a buffer tank as mentioned by previous posters is an unnecessary expense if you buy a 100 step modulated boiler. There are arguments that if you have underfloor heating you need a buffer tank but I do and have no issues without a buffer tank. Also I have no lenghty delays in getting heat to the rads. My systems is in always on state and regulates the temperature as to the needs of my zones which makes the house a much nicer more controlled place to be, never too hot or cold so much so that you dont even think about it. Also this does not burn through pellets as you would expect it just ticks over when the house is warm enough just confirming the efficiency of these systems. It just works!

jackblacky

Doctor L

In my case my plumber installed it as part of the house plumbing and he was not sei approved they then came out and commisioned it and signed off grant forms. They did warn that plumber could not start boiler until they had inspected his work and all was in order. They also initialy offered to install should I need so but it worked out cheaper to get it done as a house plumbing package.
Most plimbers who are worth their grain of salt will be getting to grips with this form of heating as it will become more and more popular in years to come.

mtoner

whitelightrider wrote: »

How would gas compare to oil for heating a house?

If you know how many litres of oil you use each year, you can compare the cost of gas and oil here: www.CheapestOil.ie/articles/EnergyReport.aspx
However I hear the price of gas is about to increase soon.

The thing I'm considering is just upgrading my old oil boiler to a new condensing one as you can see (with the price of oil these days) it can make a huge difference to be burning your oil more efficiently. Old boilers are said to be 65% to 75% efficient whereas a new condensing one might be 95% efficient. Nowadays, thats a big saving.