Debit card stolen and used

Lamps

Doing this for a friend to see if any of yis can help out.

While recently on a holiday in Moscow, my mate got mugged and had his wallet stolen with his debit card in it. He got a few punches in the process and therefore it took him a good hour before he got onto AIB and got the card cancelled.

In that hour, the theifs amanged to clear 1.5k from his account.This didnt show up on the account till 2 weeks later and the bank then rang him to inform him.

He was totally shocked cos he thought his card was just in fact an ATM card, whereas we all know (except him) that AIB just stopped the old bank cards and changed them all to debit cards.

Now hes never used it as a debit card (he thought thats whay he had a credit card - hes from Leitrim) and just used it as an ATM card, is his money gone or will the bank give it back to him o the basis it was never used as a debit card until he was robbed??

Hes going down to the AIB 2mrw to speak with them about it, is there any hope or anything he can say to them??

rainbowtrout

http://www.aib.ie/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=ROIPersonalPortal/AIBContent_C/pp_article&cid=1141324852217&c=AIBContent_C&channel=P004


From AIB website:

Loss or misuse of a Card
11) You will take reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the Card. If you think someone else knows your PIN, or if your Card is lost, copied, mislaid, stolen, used, or likely to be used, for a fraudulent or improper purpose, you must tell us immediately by telephoning 1800 242227 (24 hours a day) (or +353-1-269-5022 from abroad). We may request that you confirm the same in writing to us but without affecting the validity of any action taken by us in response to your telephone call.

12) Notification of loss or theft of a Card will be accepted by us from card protection service organisations.

13) By reporting a Card as lost, copied, mislaid or stolen or as being used, or likely to be used, for a fraudulent or improper purpose, you will be deemed to have thereby authorised us to cancel that Card. It must not be used again. If found, it must be cut in two (through the signature box, magnetic strip and Chip) for security reasons and returned to us immediately at the address below.

14) You will be responsible for any loss sustained, up to the time of notification to us in accordance with clause 11 or 12. Your liability will be limited to an overall limit of €63.49, except in the following circumstances:


if you acted, knowingly, fraudulently or with gross negligence; or

if any Transactions were effected as a result of the breach of clause 4; or

if any Card is used by any other person outside the terms of this Agreement and who has possession of it with your consent; or

if you do not notify us in accordance with clause 11 that a Card has been lost, mislaid or stolen or used, or likely to be used, for a fraudulent or improper purpose.

15) In the event of notification by you in accordance with clause 11 above you will co-operate with us and the relevant police authority in any investigation and give us and the police all information relating to such loss, theft or disclosure and all reasonable assistance to lead to the recovery of the Card. You authorise us to inform any appropriate third party of the loss, mislaying, theft or possible misuse of the Card and to give them such other information as may be required.

16) If we suspect that a Card is being used improperly or fraudulently or in breach of this Agreement we may decline to authorise any further transactions on the Account until we have contacted you. We will endeavour to contact you before we take this decision but this may not be possible. You hereby agree and authorise us to take such actions as we deem necessary including suspending the Card in such circumstances. You agree that any contact by us is for the purposes of combating wrongdoing and is not connected to this Agreement.

AIB may or may not reimburse him going on what they have on their website and how soon he notified them. It shouldn't matter whether it was a debit card or not - nor should it matter Lamps whether he knew it was a debit card, or the fact that he's from Leitrim.

pow wow

If the card was used before he cancelled it then no, I doubt he'll get a sympathetic ear from AIB. The new Laser/ATM cards were mailed with an extensive explanatory leaflet so his argument that he didn't know it could be used as a Laser card won't fly.

Be sure to give it a go though, you never know. But realistically even though he was incapacitated, why should the bank have to cover it? Sometimes bad things happen, and he's just been incredibly unfortunate.

That said, clearing 1.5k out in an hour is pretty hefty, but when you say a 'good hour' is it more likely it was a lot longer than 60 minutes?

Lamps

No i'd say it was no more than an hour, probably less. It took about half an hour to get a phoen that worked which was the main problem.

They bought something for 1200quid which was where the main damage was done.

And rainbowtrout I think him being from Leitrim had a lot to do with it, the lad isnt in the slightest bit streetwise having been brought up on a farm all his life which i think was a factor in him getting robbed in the first place.

So it doesnt look good for him then, dam....

rainbowtrout

Lamps wrote: »

No i'd say it was no more than an hour, probably less. It took about half an hour to get a phoen that worked which was the main problem.

They bought something for 1200quid which was where the main damage was done.

And rainbowtrout I think him being from Leitrim had a lot to do with it, the lad isnt in the slightest bit streetwise having been brought up on a farm all his life which i think was a factor in him getting robbed in the first place.

So it doesnt look good for him then, dam....

Just my opinion, but your original post seemed a little patronising of your friend. He may not be streetwise but to generalise like that is unfair.

Anyway back on topic, if it took an hour to get to a phone that worked, I don't think AIB are going to buy that, it is Moscow, not outer Mongolia, they will probably reckon it's not that hard to get to a phone, I was there 2 weeks ago, and things work pretty well. And Irish mobiles work out there too. The police/militsia are all over the place, so it wouldn't take too long to report it either.

griffdaddy

does he have any other big accounts with them? a mortgage or a savings account or something? i've heard of instances where people have been lent a more sympathetic ear if they are a 'bigger customer.'

Danno

Is there no insurance in place? Does his farm insurance cover it?

jor el

Did he have travel insurance at all?

As to the payment, was it PIN verified or signature? If it was PIN verified, then he must have had is PIN in his wallet, in which case tough shit on him. If the sig doesn't match up when the Bank (presumably) check it out then he should get the money back.

BuffyBot

What jor_el said.

If it was PIN verified (but I'm not sure that Chip and Pin is all that widespread in Russia as of yet) then he's not got much chance.

If it was a signed for purchase, or online he might have more hope - but it's still going to be the banks desicion.

TheDriver

On a whole other point and it is something which came into my head, I asked about the bank about if my card was stolen and used through laser, even though Idon't use it and never want to, can a) laser be stopped b) Will govt stamp duty be applied even though it was fraudently used

The Rooster

If, God forbid, this had happened to me, given my experiences with AIB and in particular with my branch, I would be very confident that I would not be charged for any of the loss.

So long as I hadnt my PIN written down somewhere in my wallet....

ircoha

Lamps wrote: »

Doing this for a friend to see if any of yis can help out.

While recently on a holiday in Moscow, my mate got mugged and had his wallet stolen with his debit card in it. He got a few punches in the process and therefore it took him a good hour before he got onto AIB and got the card cancelled.
In that hour, the theifs amanged to clear 1.5k from his account.This didnt show up on the account till 2 weeks later and the bank then rang him to inform him.
He was totally shocked cos he thought his card was just in fact an ATM card, whereas we all know (except him) that AIB just stopped the old bank cards and changed them all to debit cards.

Now hes never used it as a debit card (he thought thats whay he had a credit card - hes from Leitrim) and just used it as an ATM card, is his money gone or will the bank give it back to him o the basis it was never used as a debit card until he was robbed??

Hes going down to the AIB 2mrw to speak with them about it, is there any hope or anything he can say to them??

Am sorry quys but the bolded bit above does not make sense: just draw the // with what happens when u use your cc or dc outside the chip and pin area: they call you and they ahve the option of rejecting the transaction: this is done in realtime whereas in this case the transactions were manual.
seems to me that the stolen card message was lost, otherwise wtf did they call him 2 weeks later.

Lamps

Heres an update lads.

Nope the stolen card message wasnt lost, AIB confimred contact was made to cancel the card at 9.30am Irish time. He didnt have his pin written in his wallet or written anywhere, there was one transaction for 1500euros which is where the bulk of the money went. Aib confirmed this transaction went through at 9.54am and thus are letting him off with that (which is the main one!!). But why the hell did the transaction go through if the card was cancelled?

The said they still cant confirm what time the other 500euros worth of tranactions went ahead at and will call him back tommorrow (this happened weeks ago!). Theres something a bit dodgy about it all, but at least he gets the 1500quid refunded, thats the main thing

DonJose

What did the scumbags purchase that cost so much. Most likely it was an inside job, the scumbags having connections within the store.

The_Conductor

DonJose wrote: »

What did the scumbags purchase that cost so much. Most likely it was an inside job, the scumbags having connections within the store.

Probably consumer electronics- a laptop or a large screen tv.
I had similar happen to me in Paris a few months ago.
I keep a spare wallet in my pocket anytime I'm abroad with about a tenner in change in it, along with an out-of-date credit card and some old ID- just incase. Its ridiculous really.

Lamps

Well AIB called my mate back today. Get this, they said they got their times mixed up and in fact all the transactions were done before it was cancelled - so he owes them 2k.

They also said they used the pin number on the card, not a signature. he said theres no way in hell the number was written on the card or in his wallet and there is no way they could of got his pin. The only way is, 11 o clock that night he went to an ATM, maybe there was a pin recorder or soemthing on it. He didnt get robbed till the next morning though??

And we went through phone records, it took 29minutes from the beating to getting the cards cancelled, which considering he got the hiding of his life isnt bad going.

Hes a sick as a dog, we've thought of everything, has anyone esle any suggestions??

okidoki987

Very strange if he didn't have the number written down anywhere.
He was obviously watched or recorded putting the number into the machine so then all they had to do was mug him, get the card and
card+number =.........
Fight them over it, threaten all sorts legal action, Joe Duffy, papers etc.
If he can show he was attacked and they took the funds after he got a beating, can't see the bank insisting he is out of pocket.
Think of the bad publicity.

Sangre

if cash was stolen from your wallet would you insist the bank you withdrew it from pay you back? No? This is the exact same.

Man, I used to hate dealing with gob****es threatening Joe Duffy. Cue me tuning out.

Lamps

We did, threated solicitors/papers/moving bank/having his father move bank account - while staying really cool about it all. AIB said they'd love to be able to help him but thats just the way it is, theres nothing they can do.


Also he said his pin wasnt something obvious like 1234 or whatever, there was no way they could have guessed it.

Its so frustrating, feel so bad for him

Lamps

Sangre wrote: »

if cash was stolen from your wallet would you insist the bank you withdrew it from pay you back? No? This is the exact.

Man, I used to hate dealing with gob****es threatening Joe Duffy. Cue me tuning out.

Its hardly the same, he never wanted it to be used as a laser card in the first place he just wanted a regualr ATM card, it was AIB who insited he have a laser card and it was AIB who let 2k worth of transactions go ahead in a half hour period in a foreign country even though it had never been used as a laser card before. And it 2k were talking about, not 50euro.

Sangre

ask them to check the signature on the receipt. If it no way resembles the card then maybe the bank could push the shop for it as they didn't follow proper security procedures.

Lamps

Ill say that to him to say it to them, cheers. CAnt see a shop In RUssia giving a **** though!! But anything is worth a try at this stage

stepbar

Financial ombudsman TBH. Cut the bull. Go to them and document every conversation had with AIB. If does sound like a ridiculus suitation. And forget about Joe Duffy. Only gobsh1tes go to Duffy.

BuffyBot

If they had the PIN for the card he's got a very small chance tbh, unless AIB are feeling in a particularily generous mood and a) waive it as goodwill or b) are extremely lucky and have some kind of investigative breakthrough (which seems unlikely).

He can "say" he didn't have the PIN on it/with it, but until he can provide a decent explantion as to how the might have got hold of it to make a transaction with it, you can see why he might be on shaky ground. Anyone can claim it wasn't with it/easily guessed/written on card etc. If the PIN was *only* in his head - it's kind of tough to come up with an alternative explanation that they're going to buy.

As for skipping to the Financial Ombudsan, hold your horses. If he isn't going to fess up, then it's the chain of (written) complaint is Branch Manager, banks own headquarters Customer Care department, then Financial Ombudsman.

As for Joe Duffy..well, yeah. Classy