ESB goes green

murphaph

I'm surprised nobody has started a thread on the revelation that the ESB is to invest 22bn up to 2035 in an effort to have a zero carbon footprint by that year. If they are succesful that would be an incredible achievement for any power producer anywhere in the world. I NEVER say I am proud to be irish or other such sentimental rubbish but I believe if the ESB (despite the usual industrial disputes down the years, easily Ireland's most forward thinking state or semi-state company since inception!) achieve this I will just have to be proud!

They intend making the ESB the forerunner in renewable energy in Europe. Imagine Ireland in 2035 having virtually no dependence on fossil imports and contributing no carbon to the environment due to power generation (one of the worst culprits). It would be an awesome achievement and would assure our country's future more than any roadsbuilding programme (also needed!).

I genuinely wish them all the very best with this.

lostexpectation

thats a very long time 2035 what precentage of their overall budget is it?

murphaph

dunno. I know they have more immediate targets for 2020 to halve carbon emissions. They have committed to decommissioning the oil fired stations completely.

Victor

murphaph wrote: »

They have committed to decommissioning the oil fired stations completely.

A smallish part of their generation capacity, 30 years old and in need of replacement anyway.

Although technically, any of the gas fired stations can also burn oil and the coal and peat stations use a nominal amount of oil.

spacetweek

Victor wrote: »

A smallish part of their generation capacity, 30 years old and in need of replacement anyway.

Although technically, any of the gas fired stations can also burn oil and the coal and peat stations use a nominal amount of oil.

I added up on EirGrid once and by 2020, the number of MW of wind electricity in Ireland will have increased from 800 to 2000. This is great news and presumably a major part of their strategy.

In this day and age isn't using peat no longer environmentally sustainable? What about the bog habitats? Also peat has a low energy yield as its energy density isn't high.

What plans are there for getting rid of the coal plants? I believe there are still many of those left.

Victor

There is only one coal station - Moneypoint - its just really big.

The problem with wind is like hydro, there a lot more generating capacity that actual electricity generated. However, at least hydro can be switched on at peak demand, with wind its a matter of use it or lose it, unless you have a large storage capacity or can export it.

Peat usage has been argued for diversity purposes.

paulm17781

How expensive / impracticable is it to store the energy generated from wind?

steve-o

paulm17781 wrote: »

How expensive / impracticable is it to store the energy generated from wind?

It doesn't matter how it's generated... it can't really be stored unless converted to something else.... the ESB uses the Turlough_Hill facility to store off-peak excess energy for use at peak times. It's a clever solution for short term storage (store at night, release during the day), but would never have the capacity to store, for example, lots of wind energy from a windy week and release over a calm week.

paulm17781

steve-o wrote: »

It doesn't matter how it's generated... it can't really be stored unless converted to something else.... the ESB uses the Turlough_Hill facility to store off-peak excess energy for use at peak times. It's a clever solution for short term storage (store at night, release during the day), but would never have the capacity to store, for example, lots of wind energy from a windy week and release over a calm week.

Ah ok. Are there any sort of battery storage options or is that impossible?

BendiBus

There is a trial involving a Redox battery (a big chemical battery) taking place in Donegal. It's sponsored by SEI.

google VRB Power & Sorne Hill wind farm.

dewsbury

paulm17781 wrote: »

Ah ok. Are there any sort of battery storage options or is that impossible?

I am no expert but...

I don't believe storage is a practical option at all.

Otherwise we put solar panels in thousands of square miles in the desert. These solar panels could charge batteries which could be transported throughout the world ! The transporting vehicles would be powered by the very same batteries

KenH

dewsbury wrote: »

Otherwise we put solar panels in thousands of square miles in the desert. These solar panels could charge batteries which could be transported throughout the world ! The transporting vehicles would be powered by the very same batteries

The electricity would be transported by large power lines not vehicles. Even if it was vehicles, they would be able to carry more batteries than they require.

If there was a Europe wide network of lines, wind power wouldn't need to be stored too much as there would be peak times almost all the time. The off peak countries would fill the gaps.

serfboard

KenH wrote: »

If there was a Europe wide network of lines, wind power wouldn't need to be stored too much as there would be peak times almost all the time. The off peak countries would fill the gaps.

Precisely. Same also with solar.

Solar panels on every roof and a windmill beside every house, I say. Export your spare electricity back to the grid and see your meter going backwards. I saw this years ago on the telly on an item from America - can't understand why it never came this side of the Atlantic.

Victor

serfboard wrote: »

Solar panels on every roof and a windmill beside every house, I say. Export your spare electricity back to the grid and see your meter going backwards. I saw this years ago on the telly on an item from America - can't understand why it never came this side of the Atlantic.

Such a scheme would be slightly gimicky. A larger central scheme would be more efficient.

One thing wind power could be used for is generating hydrogen.

D.S.

Does anyone have any info or links to this scheme? Any idea on what technologies the ESB see as being center stage for Ireland come 2035??

Thanks,
Dellboy

KenH

From this page:

http://www.esb.ie/main/news_events/press_release337.jsp

"The plan, which will establish ESB as a world class renewables company, makes emissions reduction and energy efficiency central to its ambitious targets.

By 2020, ESB will be delivering one-third of its electricity from renewable generation. This will include over 1,400 megawatts of wind generation, in addition to wave, tidal and biomass. To promote this, the company will invest in emerging green technologies."

D.S.

So if I have got this right - ESB's market share cannot exceed 40% and by 2020 1/3 of ESB's output will be from renewable sources (i.e. 13% of market share). The level and scale of investment is fantastic news. But from an overall perspective, could the government be doing more?

Amtmann

What's the latest on this ESB programme? Does anyone have any information?

dewsbury

dewsbury wrote: »

I am no expert but...

I don't believe storage is a practical option at all.

Otherwise we put solar panels in thousands of square miles in the desert. These solar panels could charge batteries which could be transported throughout the world ! The transporting vehicles would be powered by the very same batteries

If ultracapacators technology becomes viable, it may become possible for householders to have ultracapacators in their homes being constantly trickle charged from their solar panels wind turbines etc and the grid when surplus reneweable energy is being generated.

The stored energy can then be discharged in the house when devices like kettles are used, storing electricity this way has the advantage that the power generators will not have to cope with rapidly flucturating demand.

Using a distibuted storage system also reduces transmission losses as the power transmittted remains much closer to the average with far fewer spikes in demand.