How many 'pints at Fagans' would this buy?

darkman2

£452,800


Thats the total now being investigated about Bertie according to tomorrows Irish Times.......and thats sterling btw. After watching the Late Late tonight some of what Eoin Harris was saying was unbelievable. Its not curruption if its a 'small' amount apparently. I dont know about the rest of you but 400,000 pounds is not small money for me. Id love some one to buy me a gaff but it aint happening. The writings on the wall, its getting worse and worse, and at this stage its embarrasing our country. Im not saying Bertie is a bad guy but, come on, at this stage he has to do the honourable thing and resign for both his own good and the country's. I say give him his shindig in the US (he deserves at least that) and then go. Go with dignity and dont be forced.:(

biko

Many pints

bronte

Blimmin 'eck That's a lotta cash.
He should resign at this stage.

AlmightyCushion

I haven't been keeping up on this but seeing as you say investigating doesn't that mean that he hasn't been found guilty. Why should or would an innocent (for now, he may be proven guilty) resign?

useful_contacts

Fagans

wheres that?

AlmightyCushion

useful_contacts wrote: »

Fagans

wheres that?

It's a pub in Drumcondra, it's Bertie's local.

darkman2

Im not saying Bertie is a bad guy. Ive loads of respect for him but he lied to the tribunal and he lied on National television - his former secretary contradicted alot of what he said and there is no rush to contradict her. He needs to go. You would have to be a bit dim to not know where this is going. He has been a great servant for this country and it was in bad times for him personally but with his posistion carries responsibility and tbh the public are not idiots. Everyone knows where this is going. Most like Bertie and feel sorry for him but its gone too far now IMO.

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

tbh the public are not idiots.

After the last election I cannot believe that.

darkman2

Deleted User wrote: »

After the last election I cannot believe that.

Bertie played his sympathy card then - it worked. Your right in what you say though and I support Fianna Fail!:(

tolosenc

Honour? Dignity? He lost those when he joined FF, as well as his conscience. He, in his twisted mind, doesnt see this money laundering and fraud as a crime. And nowthat hes being told it is, he's lying so they won't bother him about it.

It's beyond a joke at this stage. The longer he stays in this pool of **** he's made for himself, the deeper he's going to sink. Bertie should resign before anyone has the balls to bring impeachment proceedings up. Cowan and the other FF cronies calling Bertie critics treasonous is laughable at best. The fact that they are defending their party leader rather than the law of the land on to whose power they so firmly wish to hold shows that they are not only incompetant themselves, but are also probably hiding their own skeletons.

He should go to jail for this, not resign and get out with his head held high.

pirelli

darkman2 wrote: »

£452,800
Thats the total now being investigated about Bertie according to tomorrows Irish Times.......and thats sterling btw. After watching the Late Late tonight some of what Eoin Harris was saying was unbelievable:(

My perspective was that Eoin Harris was perhaps trying to weight the criminal liability of the act of Bertie's accepting money and less so examining the level of corruption, if that is the correct phrase.

He was explaining that there was no criminal liability in what Bertie did or if any it was of the light end of the scale, and that scale was gilligans stud horse's to embezzelment for a porsche or armani suits and shirts or a yacht.

There is some merit in what he was saying although what keeps disturbing me is that Berties was finance minister and responsible for the cruel system of financially depriving elderly peope who need to stay in nursing home's. This forced some siblings to having to let their elder live alone in big and cold houses. It placed such scenarios into a situation where it was not economically viable to look after there elders by placing them in nursing homes or getting social services.

I am not excusing the extreme neglect that amounted to inhumanity that some sibling's left their elder in. This I have discovered has happened and it would shock people to see photographs of the conditions some old people have lived in.

Many Irish people have deeply cared for their elders and some siblings were unable to - due to financial or for other reasons - properly care for their mother or father.

Bertie really doesnt seem to care less, he has no remorse, he passes the buck. It's more than petty corruption it is an injustice to the people of ireland.

ninty9er

I (quite obviously) support Fianna Fáil. That is not to say I believe 100% of what Bertie has said or even 90% at this stage, but I certainly do not believe that at any stage he has gone out to mislead the people or scam the people.

Public service is his life...he lost his marriage to it (with a lot of personal fault too admittedly!!), saw his kids only once a week when growing up...left his mother's graveside to further the Good Friday Agreement, works in excess of 100 hours per week and continues to do so and will continue to do so until such a time as he can leave office of his own will and not because Brian Hayes has yet again purposely misinterpreted calls by Mary Harney and John Gormley for clarity on the Carruth issue (Tribunal Transcript here....bottom of page 7 on to page 8).

It will be quite clear to anyone that can read; that she does not recall lodging sterling; as the opposition, media and self styled commentators have "informed" the people.

Bertie Ahern will not leave office while he is being hounded by the press and the opposition. Further hounding will only serve to "get our back up" as a party and defend a man who has not yet been proven to be anything but misguided. This man is 10 steps ahead of the rest of us in his head...which is why we had such things as a 3 week election campaign, 91 TD government. The Greens AND PDs could walk and the Government would not fall as we only have 162 seats in play with everyone refusing to deal with Sinn Féin.

It does sadden me the image he has brought on the party of cloak and dagger, but in reality, if you read the transcripts this is not the truth. There are many thousands of members of Fianna Fáil (more than all other registered parties combined at last count) who are upstanding members of communities all over the country, and to call all of those 78000+ people bankrupt in conscience is not fair, is not true, is unacceptable and is something that I would ask people to consider before making ridiculous remarks like "Honour? Dignity? He lost those when he joined FF, as well as his conscience." I have also worked in banking, and for money laundering to take place, under the Anti Money Laundering Legislation in the Criminal Justice Act the money would originally be "dirty"

Money laundering, as a concept, may be described in simple terms as the process by which criminals
attempt to conceal the true origin and ownership of the proceeds of their criminal activities.

This does not apply. There were 92 tax defaulters names published yesterday...none of them can legally be forced to resign or will lose their jobs as a result. The Taoiseach is in the process of settling with the Revenue due to tax liabilities owing. This is a non-issue.

Quite honestly, the quicker the opposition and media shut up, the quicker Bertie will be gone.

DublinDilbert

ninty9er wrote: »

There are many thousands of members of Fianna Fáil (more than all other registered parties combined at last count) who are upstanding members of communities all over the country,

These are the people that stood at church gates in the rain collecting money for the party.... only to find out that the party is giving out loans ( the equivelent of 2 years wages at the time) for people to buy houses with... oh wait the money was for a house for her aunt, but the house was not put in her aunts name... but its ok the money was paid back 2 months ago...

Also the money which came from NCIB stock brokers was effectively laudered, as the FF fund raiser issued an invoice form his company for a safety survey which was never carried out... but NCB say it was deffinitely a FF party donation, bertie says "it was a political donation for my own use"...

tolosenc

ninty9er wrote: »

I (quite obviously) support Fianna Fáil.

Are your opinions not (quite obviously) tainted?

ninty9er wrote: »

I would ask people to consider before making ridiculous remarks like "Honour? Dignity? He lost those when he joined FF, as well as his conscience."

I would ask people to consider Fianna Fáil's history of outsadingly honest party memebers: Charlie Haughey, Éamonn DeValera, Ivor Calelly to name but a fraction of a percent...

ninty9er wrote: »

Quite honestly, the quicker the opposition and media shut up, the quicker Bertie will be gone.

Quite honestly, the quicker people with your disposition shut up, the quicker this will all play out and the quicker we get the god damn truth.

The man is an utter disgrace.

Is fogetting that murder is a crime defence enough in a court of law? Thought not... So how then, can one say that Bertie's forgetfulness absolves himself of all guilt. Lest we forget, these "misdemeanors" are far from minor. Hundreds of thousands of euros, STOLEN. He is a crook and a liar. He has the brass neck to try and put the blinkers on us all, but I, for one, won't have any of it. The more that comes to ligth, the more reminiscent of a Sardinian crime family this party becomes.

growler

if that man isn't behind bars within 5 years, it makes a total mockery of irish politics.

Red Alert

He has to go and those people who bat for him on the radio should know that truth comes before loyalty.

KdjaCL

Nice food in Fagans, grand spot for a pint before playing Home Farm or whoever plays there now.


kdjac

Denis Irwin

Yup Fagan's is a grand pub alright.


Btw it's funny how the media rarely mention the few hundred grand Garret FitzGerald had written off by of the banks (I think it was AIB) in the early '90s. Ohhh wait he's from Fine Gael so there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with that.:rolleyes:

skelliser

there is no irish times on sunday or does the op mean todays issue?

Eoin Harris seriously annoyed me last night with his blatant arrogance, he reminded me of that padraig flynn fool for a minute and he kept on harping on about that "3 tracts of 5,000 pounds was a small amount of money", maybe today it is but 15 years ago 5 grand was quite a substaintail amount of money, and i would defo remember getting that amount of money.
Pat the blank also made a good point that for a supposed accountant remembering amounts of money was in there genes etc.

CantGetNoSleep

£452,800 / 0.787564 = €574,937.40

Im not sure of the price of a pint in Fagan's, but in my local it's €4.30

€574,937.40 / 4.30 = 133,706 pints, with enough change left over for a pack of Tayto and some peanuts

So that would get you 133,706 pints OP

RoundyMooney

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Btw it's funny how the media rarely mention the few hundred grand Garret FitzGerald had written off by of the banks (I think it was AIB) in the early '90s. Ohhh wait he's from Fine Gael so there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with that.:rolleyes:

Funny that, especially considering the £400m digout AIB got in '84 from the FG led government, after they bit off more than they could chew with ICI...

It's a hoary old cliche that we get the government we deserve.

No one deserves the crap political alternatives available to us. Some of our leaders, past and present wouldn't get a job in a West African dictatorship.

It goes all the way down to local councillors. One FG member of a town council down here (as well as being a County Councillor) has refused to report on CC matters at town council meetings, amid questions surrounding a decision to rent premises in lieu of building a new facility, which will cost the council a tidy six figure sum going forward. I could add to this, but I won't

I've come to detest FF, their years in power have lent them an arrogance and sense of immunity, but let's not kid ourselves that the other crowd are, or were, any better.

ninty9er

darkman2 wrote: »

£452,800


Thats the total now being investigated about Bertie according to tomorrows Irish Times.......and thats sterling btw

It's Irish Punt btw!!

Today's Irish Times wrote:

THE TOTAL value of lodgements and other transactions that have to date been queried by the Mahon tribunal in its public inquiries into the finances of the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, exceeds £452,800, an analysis by The Irish Times shows. Colm Keena , Public Affairs Correspondent, reports.
The lodgements and transactions occurred between 1988 and 1997, although the vast bulk of the money was lodged in the period to 1995.

start 1988- end 1995 = 8 years which is about £56k a year. Some not all of that includes salary payments. It was a lot of money back than, It wasn't a one off £200,000 debt clearance for "no thanks", It wasn't a £4 million overdraft on a £10k salary.


I am quite frankly biased as has been pointed out. However noone has made an issue of Enda Kenny being the longest serving member of the Dáil and drawing a teacher's salary until 2005 (something which the majority of teaching TD do....but that's double standards)

I note that nobody has tried to contradict me on tax compliance as it happens to hundreds each year. The only person ever to get away with it was that w4nker Haughey.

The Irish public had a reasonable right to question their ownership to Kinsealey, Irish Helicopters and Inis Mhicealláin, but we didn't get it.

There is nothing Bertie Ahern owns that the Irish public can question being ripped off in the process of him getting it!

Bertie will not leave office under pressure from anyone but Fianna Fáil and Fianna Fáil has and never will be dictated to by the media or the opposition. That's a firmly held belief of mine.

I however have one issue...who'd do a better job...very few TD are suited to it (possibly 5 across all parties) and only 2 have a real shot. Who they are is my little secret as neither of them are likely to get the job and I'm not in the habit of unnecessarily embarassing myself:pac::pac:

If I was to add someone in the mix I'd bring back McCreevy.

skelliser wrote: »

there is no irish times on sunday or does the op mean todays issue?

Eoin Harris seriously annoyed me last night with his blatant arrogance, he reminded me of that padraig flynn fool for a minute and he kept on harping on about that "3 tracts of 5,000 pounds was a small amount of money", maybe today it is but 15 years ago 5 grand was quite a substaintail amount of money, and i would defo remember getting that amount of money.

Eogan Harris, has never and will never represent Fianna Fáil!! He is a twit and that interview was an embarrasment.

Having said that, my parents received loans in the 80s and if asked in front of a court would not name the source as it would not be fair to those people to drag them into proceedings.....in any case they knew they'd have to pay them back.

On the Celia/House debacle....it's not every cumann has €30k in the bank, most don't have €3k....Corú agus Riallacha states that Public Reps can't hold positions within cumainn, therefore Bertie could not have had an ultimate say in that loan, but could have recommended...not that it would have to be acted on.

guinnessdrinker

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

€574,937.40 / 4.30 = 133,706 pints, with enough change left over for a pack of Tayto and some peanuts

Whoooh!! Party!!

(Cool sig btw)

tolosenc

Your point on tax settlements, ninty9er, is true. But his someone who actively flaunts the law(ie doesn't pay tax) suitable to make the laws? I reckon if it came out that an accountant wasn't up to date on his or her taxes, they wouldn't get much trade...

ninty9er

obl wrote: »

I reckon if it came out that an accountant wasn't up to date on his or her taxes, they wouldn't get much trade...

Not sure, but I recall a good number of accountants being named over the years.

Dyr

The money was only resting in his account sure

Denis Irwin

ninty9er wrote: »

I am quite frankly biased as has been pointed out. However noone has made an issue of Enda Kenny being the longest serving member of the Dáil and drawing a teacher's salary until 2005 (something which the majority of teaching TD do....but that's double standards)

Yup and that's one thing that p*sses me right off if that had been Bertie or any other FF minister for arguments sake it would have been made an issue.:rolleyes:

There is nothing Bertie Ahern owns that the Irish public can question being ripped off in the process of him getting it!

Bertie will not leave office under pressure from anyone but Fianna Fáil and Fianna Fáil has and never will be dictated to by the media or the opposition. That's a firmly held belief of mine.

I'd agree with that but IMO I think there's a good chance that Bertie will probably step down before the end of the year.

I however have one issue...who'd do a better job...very few TD are suited to it (possibly 5 across all parties) and only 2 have a real shot. Who they are is my little secret as neither of them are likely to get the job and I'm not in the habit of unnecessarily embarassing myself:pac::pac:

If I was to add someone in the mix I'd bring back McCreevy.


.

As an FF supporter if McCreevey came back into the mix it would be interesting to say the least. But for me two people who would IMO be excellent candidates to takeover from Bertie (apart from Cowen) would be Micheal Martin or Dermot Ahern.

cdebru

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I haven't been keeping up on this but seeing as you say investigating doesn't that mean that he hasn't been found guilty. Why should or would an innocent (for now, he may be proven guilty) resign?

If that is the case then should a Taoiseach or Minister only resign if convicted in a court of law

In that case Ray Burke should not have gone when he did as in the eyes of the law he was a completely innocent man and CJ died a completely innocent man

juuge

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

he hasn't been found guilty. Why should or would an innocent resign?

Because he has already lied, under oath, Simple as that.

ninty9er

juuge wrote: »

Because he has already lied, under oath, Simple as that.

I've provided a link to backup my Tribunal claims...please elaborate...

RoundyMooney

Seems your leader isn't the only one suffering accountancy difficulties...

FF'ers sig wrote:

Fianna Fáil, bringing progress to the people since 1926
UK comparisons based on £1=78c

ninty9er

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Seems your leader isn't the only one suffering accountancy difficulties...

frightening thing is I'm training to be an accountant:D:D

will fix that immediately...thanks

RoundyMooney

Np.