treeless saddles

kerrysgold

Does anyone know of any good treeless saddle suppliers in Ireland? Thanks.

togster

no but why? they are rubbish

fits

kerrysgold wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good treeless saddle suppliers in Ireland? Thanks.

Nope. You'll probably have to go through the UK. Most companies provide a trialling service.

togster wrote: »

they are rubbish

They can have their problems, yes, but I dont think they are all 'rubbish'. I certainly think a good treeless is a better option than a poorly fitting treed.

I'd quite like to try out one of those fhoenix saddles.

kerrysgold

togster wrote: »

no but why? they are rubbish

why?

Thanks fits, I thought as much! ebay seems like a good starting point I suppose. I think the one's made in India are supposed to be bad quality, that explains the too-good-to-be-true price anyway :rolleyes:

fits

kerrysgold wrote: »

Thanks fits, I thought as much! ebay seems like a good starting point I suppose. I think the one's made in India are supposed to be bad quality, that explains the too-good-to-be-true price anyway :rolleyes:

Be very careful about buying one on ebay. You'd still need to pay a premium for the good recognised brands such as barefoot, freeform etc and theres no return option if the saddle doesnt work out. From my limited knowledge, anyone I know whos tried treeless thinks that it can take a lot of trial and error before finding the right one for both horse and rider.

Its not really a 'cheap' option if thats what you're looking for. Its also important to get the padding right.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with a well-fitting treed saddle either btw. But I'm curious about the treeless myself.

kerrysgold

yep I'm a bit wary about ebay anyway since I've never bought anything of it before lol.

It's not really the money but it's supposed to be more comfy for the horse, which makes sense since it's all soft instead of having a hard treed saddle on his back. and at least there isn't danger of his back being ruined like it would be if a treed saddle didn't fit 100% perfect.

fits

kerrysgold wrote: »

It's not really the money but it's supposed to be more comfy for the horse,

Its supposed to be.
There are trees in saddles for a reason, and that reason is weight distribution. Trees serve to distribute a riders weight over a greater area on the horses back, therefore making it easier for the horse to carry a rider for long periods. If the saddle fits well, it works brilliantly. However if the saddle doesnt contour properly to the horses back, pressure points are created and this can cause severe back problems in the horse.

which makes sense since it's all soft instead of having a hard treed saddle on his back. and at least there isn't danger of his back being ruined like it would be if a treed saddle didn't fit 100% perfect.

Well, thats not quite true. There are problems with weight distribution on many treeless saddles and I've heard reports of horses developing severe back problems due to them. Its why you'll see weight limits on a lot of the saddles. Basically a lot of treeless are worse than riding bareback because the stirrup straps can run straight over the back, creating a nasty pressure point (the stirrups are attached to the trees in normal saddles). Some treeless saddles have a netting configuration that the stirrup leathers are attached to for weight distribution, but a lot dont.

In short, you need to do your research before buying one. NR has a lot of old threads on this subject and is a good place to start.

kerrysgold

thanks, I've already got a thread going on there myself but will search for old ones in a while trying to find the perfect saddle is like a minefield!

convert

Did you get your horse yet? If not, it'd probably be a good idea to wait until you have the horse so you can fit the saddle on him before you buy it. That way you can be sure that whatever saddle you finally purchase (either with or without a tree) fits him properly and won't cause any potential problems.
I've known people who have brought the horse with them to the tack shop so they can ensure that the saddle is suitable for both horse and rider!

kerrysgold

Nope not yet, that's another minefield :rolleyes: I've decided I hate looking for things and animals to buy! It's torture

napoles

convert wrote: »

Did you get your horse yet? If not, it'd probably be a good idea to wait until you have the horse so you can fit the saddle on him before you buy it. That way you can be sure that whatever saddle you finally purchase (either with or without a tree) fits him properly and won't cause any potential problems.
I've known people who have brought the horse with them to the tack shop so they can ensure that the saddle is suitable for both horse and rider!

Absolutely agreed! Presumably you're just checking out info on the saddles so that you can buy one once you get your horse? You may need to try on and out several different saddles until you get one which fits your horse. And as Convert said, many people get the advice of the tackshop owner as lots of them have been trained in the fitting of saddles.

On an aside - I actually bought a suede Fylde show saddle through Ebay last year and it worked out great. Obviously I weighed up all the risks and did a thorough check over it before putting it on the horse to make sure the tree was ok and everything, but it was perfect! Probably not the most recommended route for buying a first saddle though!

kerrysgold

kerrysgold wrote: »

Nope not yet, that's another minefield :rolleyes: I've decided I hate looking for things and animals to buy! It's torture

Buying a saddle is like buying shoes - you need to try it on first as all horses are different shapes and many saddles won't fit many horses.

fits

Deleted User wrote: »

Buying a saddle is like buying shoes - you need to try it on first as all horses are different shapes and many saddles won't fit many horses.

I actually think theres a case for having trained fitters here like in the UK who will adjust saddles for individual horses.

I rode my mare for years in a too-narrow saddle (recommended by a well-respected and liked saddler), the difference in her way of going when I got her one that fits was amazing.
I actually brought in my saddle to see how much it was worth recently and he was incredulous that I had such a wide saddle on my horse and would not believe me when I maintained that the width fitted her... he doesnt have a clue.

sunnyholly

try www.robinsons-uk.com they stock all sorts of treeless saddles

lenaw98

Goodwins in Mulhuddart sell the treeless Torsion - and also give you a trial

Lena

wombles

I would think treeless saddles a lot less comfortable than properly fitting saddle with tree. You are not distributing riders weight so well. Think of the pressure on one are just from riders weight in saddle.

Why do you think they are better?

lenaw98

Treeless saddles are neither better nor worse than treed ones in my opinion. I have ridden treeless for years and currently own a Barefoot that I use on the gallop when I canter my horse. I use a Prestige dressage saddle for flatwork or interchange with the treeless one.

I have never had any problems with the treeless saddles at all, bought my first one for my Arab mare as it was hopeless finding a treed saddle that fitted her. She loved it, I loved it - no problems and you really get tuned into what your horse is doing movement wise as your feel is heightened. My current horse, also an Arab but a stallion - is also very wide and I bought the Barefoot as I tried numerous treed ones and none fitted and I knew with the treeless I wouldn't do damage.

The good treeless ones have no pressure points and require a proper treeless saddle pad. They can be used for different horses with only a change of the saddle pad eventhough that is not even necessary in most cases.

My Prestige saddle was widened to fit the boy and I love that one too, but I adore my treeless and so does the horse. I also ride bitless on the gallop or out hacking, either in bitless bridle, rope head collar or cavesson - but in flatwork I use either snaffle or double bridle.

And the stallion is barefoot at all times

Lena

wombles

lenaw98 wrote: »

Treeless saddles are neither better nor worse than treed ones in my opinion. I have ridden treeless for years and currently own a Barefoot that I use on the gallop when I canter my horse. I use a Prestige dressage saddle for flatwork or interchange with the treeless one.

I have never had any problems with the treeless saddles at all, bought my first one for my Arab mare as it was hopeless finding a treed saddle that fitted her. She loved it, I loved it - no problems and you really get tuned into what your horse is doing movement wise as your feel is heightened. My current horse, also an Arab but a stallion - is also very wide and I bought the Barefoot as I tried numerous treed ones and none fitted and I knew with the treeless I wouldn't do damage.

The good treeless ones have no pressure points and require a proper treeless saddle pad. They can be used for different horses with only a change of the saddle pad eventhough that is not even necessary in most cases.

My Prestige saddle was widened to fit the boy and I love that one too, but I adore my treeless and so does the horse. I also ride bitless on the gallop or out hacking, either in bitless bridle, rope head collar or cavesson - but in flatwork I use either snaffle or double bridle.

And the stallion is barefoot at all times

Lena

Well as you have found one successful I cant disagree however surely the saddle pad is requires because the spine needs protection?

Think to discuss bitless and barefoot might be O/T on this thread.

lenaw98

saddle pads are required for spinal clearance yes and as horses differ in shape one might need to change inserts if applicable on pads - or change pads

didnt mean to discuss barefoot and bitless at all - just threw it in as those tend to go hand in hand with treeless saddles

Lena

fits

wombles wrote: »

Think to discuss bitless and barefoot might be O/T on this thread.

And backseat moderating is also off topic;). They werent discussed as such, merely mentioned in context

wombles wrote: »

I would think treeless saddles a lot less comfortable than properly fitting saddle with tree. You are not distributing riders weight so well. Think of the pressure on one are just from riders weight in saddle.

I would think that is a very general statement. A good treeless will be better than a treed of mediocre fit I'd imagine. But it depends on so many things. Not every option suits every horse/rider combination.

kerrysgold

lenaw98 wrote: »

Treeless saddles are neither better nor worse than treed ones in my opinion. I have ridden treeless for years and currently own a Barefoot that I use on the gallop when I canter my horse. I use a Prestige dressage saddle for flatwork or interchange with the treeless one.

I have never had any problems with the treeless saddles at all, bought my first one for my Arab mare as it was hopeless finding a treed saddle that fitted her. She loved it, I loved it - no problems and you really get tuned into what your horse is doing movement wise as your feel is heightened. My current horse, also an Arab but a stallion - is also very wide and I bought the Barefoot as I tried numerous treed ones and none fitted and I knew with the treeless I wouldn't do damage.

The good treeless ones have no pressure points and require a proper treeless saddle pad. They can be used for different horses with only a change of the saddle pad eventhough that is not even necessary in most cases.

My Prestige saddle was widened to fit the boy and I love that one too, but I adore my treeless and so does the horse. I also ride bitless on the gallop or out hacking, either in bitless bridle, rope head collar or cavesson - but in flatwork I use either snaffle or double bridle.

And the stallion is barefoot at all times

Lena

Thanks for the great post, it's always good to hear about personal experiences, first off, you're horses sound lovely, any chance of a few pics? don't tend to see many arabs in this country but I'm sure there are plenty of them around lol.

I'm still finding out about how treeless saddles work, the pads to go under them etc. I've never even ridden in one so I have no idea what they are like or how they are even put on etc lol, some people seem to think they are less stable than a treed saddle i.e. when mounting (I don't like to mount from the ground anyway though as it supposed to put a strain on the saddle and the horses back *shrug* but also if the horse spooks or something. What are they like for jumping? are they as stable as a treed saddle for that?

And feel free to mention barefoot and bitless, these are 2 things I'd really like to try with my future horse, I'm still looking into barefoot as, which seems normal with everything to do with horses, it's a bit confusing with some people saying it's not good, others saying it is, then other people saying it's fine if you don't want to ride on roads etc! Speaking of which, do you ride on roads/hard surfaces with your guy? Do you need to find a specialist barefoot farrier or can any farrier "do" a barefoot horse? Does it have to be a special trim or do they just do a normal trim like they would for a shod horse?

I think it'd be great to be more comfortable for the horse and go bitless for fun stuff like hacking and just use the bit for the more serious work like schooling and jumping etc.

convert

kerrysgold wrote: »

(I don't like to mount from the ground anyway though as it supposed to put a strain on the saddle and the horses back *shrug* but also if the horse spooks or something.:D

If mounting is done correctly (i.e. - you don't swing out of the stirrup and take all day to mount, and do it in one quick and sweeping motion) then it isn't that bad. It's actually worse on the stirrup leathers, as the one on the left hand side tends to stretch more than the one on the right. Swapping the leathers tends to help with that.

Regarding the horse spooking, that's always that chance whether your mounting, riding or leading the horse. It's just something you've got to contend with. Holding the reins short when you mount (and mounting quickly) can help contain the movement.

If you need practice mounting, then it's a good idea to start by using a mounting block. That way you've a lot less further to mount 'up', and it can be done much quicker. It's pretty handy to start off, or if you're on a young horse. (or if you're a little lazy! )

lenaw98

hi,
if I could figure out how to post a pic - I would Arabs are quite
difficult to get hold of in this country, unfortunately most Irish people think that Arabs are somehow highly strung and silly. I find them the exact opposite and I have owned a couple and worked with loads - they are very very intelligent (maybe thats where the highly strung comes from ) My boy is a covering stallion and he is very sensible, when working he doesnt take any notice of mares flirting wildly with him - and when he covers he is very gentle with the mares and I use a normal headcollar and lead rope for that job

Good on you kerrygold for not mounting from the ground - it does put a strain on the horse. As for treeless slipping when mounting - nope, but a badly fitted treed saddle will also slip so it depends on that. I dont think I'm lazy to mount from a mounting block or whatever is handy - as the last poster implied although right about the stretch in the leathers..

As for jumping in a treeless - work away... no bother there! If you have questions about pads and different treeless saddles - you will find the resellers and manufacturers are very helpful and dont be afraid to ask. All treeless saddles come with the appropriate pad as an extra.

As for the barefoot - I use a podiatrist from the north who is very knowledgeable and really helpful. I ride on gravel, roads, any surface is fine. I have not met many farriers that do barefoot but I am sure there are those as well. The trim is certainly different from a shod horse - and it will take a while to get the hoof in the right shape after being shod. I get my lad done every 6 or 7 weeks depending on the growth. I had a few barefoot horses in Finland and they were brilliant on icy roads, no balling of snow in the feet and they dont slip as the foot acts as a suction cup when done properly... not that snow and ice are much of a prob in this country

good luck with the horse hunting!

Right, can we keep on topic please here? Pics and discussions of arabs and the like can be kept to another thread.

Also, can we please ease off the smilies? One or two smilies per post is ok but we don't need one per line.

wombles

fits wrote: »

And backseat moderating is also off topic;). They werent discussed as such, merely mentioned in context



I would think that is a very general statement. A good treeless will be better than a treed of mediocre fit I'd imagine. But it depends on so many things. Not every option suits every horse/rider combination.

My apologies, I was not attempting to moderate, but I find that on so many forums topics always end up on the barefoot and bitless theme.

I still maintain that as a well fitting treed saddle is better than a saddle that is relying on a "pad" to keep pressure off the spinal column. The pad is not going to reduce the pressure of weight. How can it? If you had a corn on you toe, you can reduce the pressure by applying a pad around the corn to act as a barrier. If you put a plaster straight over the corn it's still going to hurt like hell.