Warning To Waterford Motorists

ART6

If any of you Waterford drivers, commercial and private, don't already know of it, the City Corpo is planning to introduce what they (laughingly) call "green routes" on the Cork Road and the Dunmore Road. This will (apparently) mean bus lanes and cycle lanes all along them, with even more traffic lights that will allow buses to jump traffic queues. Traffic on both roads already tails back for over a mile most of the day, and in the case of the Dunmore Road this should result in tailbacks to Dunmore East in the mornings. The traffic problem occurred in the first place because of the incompetence of the planners in developing all of the industry on one side of the city and all of the residential estates on the other. Now we, who pay their b****y wages and fat pensions via our motoring and other taxes are to suffer even more disruption to soothe their "green" emotions. I urge you all to write to:

Paddy Power
Director of Planning, Culture & HR
Waterford City Council
Wallace House, Maritana Gate, Canada Street, Waterford

and tell him to start using the brain cell we pay him for before they really screw everything up again.

Seth Brundle

More Commuting & Transport than Motoring so thread moved!

Stark

Do they have buses planned to use the green routes?

corktina

fact of life...over the next few years there are going to be more and more measures designed to get people out of their cars and on to public transport....painful but it HAS to happen,,,building more and more roads for cars to queue on is not an option.

serfboard

ART6 wrote: »

The traffic problem occurred in the first place because of the incompetence of the planners in developing all of the industry on one side of the city and all of the residential estates on the other.

If it's any consolation the exact same thing was done in Galway. Throw in a river crossing for good measure with effectively only one useful bridge (for commuting) and what do you think happened?

(Slow) forward 15 years and still have no public transport which uses this bridge (they'd rather use slower ones!) and what do you think the position is now? Add in the number of extra people in work and the number of extra cars on the road ...

However, I'm not sure if it's always right to blame the planners ... most of the bad planning in this country is IMO, due to the vested-interested politicians over-ruling the planners, enriching the developers and ending up in the tribunals. But that's another day's work ...

Ham'nd'egger

I suspect that OP is one of these nice guys who drive jaded rally cars with full fog lights on 24 7 , Scooter CD playing loudly as he speeds to and from chippers every night in a vain attempt to see who can waste the most petrol I am going to Paddy Power to him to congratulate him on prioritizing public transport in a city that is choking with cars as it is.

Chris_533976

Warning to Waterford Motorists -

The N25/M9/N24 junction is going to be a disgrace of a thing.

fricatus

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Warning to Waterford Motorists -

The N25/M9/N24 junction is going to be a disgrace of a thing.

Off-topic I think, since we're talking about the Green Routes that the City Council is planning for the Cork Road and Dunmore Road - but an interesting topic nonetheless. I take it you're talking about the big junction that's under construction at Grannagh, Co Kilkenny, where the N24 and N9 currently meet?

Any chance of maybe creating a new thread along with a link to an image so that we can understand why you think it's going to be so bad? I for one have no idea what the finished product is supposed to look like...

ART6

fricatus wrote: »

Off-topic I think, since we're talking about the Green Routes that the City Council is planning for the Cork Road and Dunmore Road - but an interesting topic nonetheless. I take it you're talking about the big junction that's under construction at Grannagh, Co Kilkenny, where the N24 and N9 currently meet?

Any chance of maybe creating a new thread along with a link to an image so that we can understand why you think it's going to be so bad? I for one have no idea what the finished product is supposed to look like...

You can see what they plan to do by logginon the www.waterfordcity.ie, going to "Documents & Publications", "Waterford green routes".

ART6

Hamndegger wrote: »

I suspect that OP is one of these nice guys who drive jaded rally cars with full fog lights on 24 7 , Scooter CD playing loudly as he speeds to and from chippers every night in a vain attempt to see who can waste the most petrol I am going to Paddy Power to him to congratulate him on prioritizing public transport in a city that is choking with cars as it is.

I'm not what you think. Actually I'm a 67 year old company director driving a family saloon with no special souped up features. I have been driving on business and pleasure for long enough to know that if the planners can cock it up they will do. And prioritising public transport is fine if you have any that goes where everyone wants when they want.

fricatus

ART6 wrote: »

You can see what they plan to do by logginon the www.waterfordcity.ie, going to "Documents & Publications", "Waterford green routes".

I was actually asking Chris_533976 to create a new thread for the Grannagh junction, so as not to go off topic about the Green Routes, but thanks nevertheless for the link. I live on the Dunmore Road, so this is going to affect me. I'll be in town in the afternoon (early shift day) so I'll take a look at whatever they have on display.

To be honest though, if it meant reliable, frequent, punctual and sensible bus routes, I'd be all in favour. However the bus providers are Bus Éireann and Kenneally's, which I don't think are models of efficiency. I mean someone said earlier about Galway not having a cross-city route using the Quincentennial Bridge, and Waterford likewise doesn't yet have any sort of usable route from say the Dunmore Road or Williamstown to WIT or the IDA estate.

People on this forum complain (often rightly) about Dublin Bus, but at least it's a company that is focussed on delivering bus services to a particular urban area. The other cities such as Waterford and Galway are crying out for something like this, if only to bring in such simple concepts as proper route numbering. E.g. why don't Kenneally's and Suirway call up Bus Éireann and ask them for route numbers that don't conflict with BE's network? Kenneally's run a Knockboy-City Centre service and a Knockboy-Tramore service, but it's practically impossible to tell which one you're getting on because the routes are not numbered. How hard can it be?

Bards

fricatus wrote: »

I was actually asking Chris_533976 to create a new thread for the Grannagh junction, so as not to go off topic about the Green Routes, but thanks nevertheless for the link.

The guys over at Sabre have discussed this already (see JBK's post)

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19003&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

KC61

In fairness to Bus Éireann, there is a plan to improve the bus services in Waterford during 2008 and 2009, which has started with the delivery of new low floor buses.

It was announced last year , as follows on the Bus Éireann website:

Bus Éireann Outlines Vision for Future of Bus Services in Waterford 2008-2009
At a keynote briefing session in the city, attended by the Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen T.D, the Chairman of Bus Éireann and CIÉ, Dr John Lynch and Bus Éireann Chief Executive Tim Hayes, the company outlined how the existing network of bus services in Waterford could be transformed in just under three years, to cater for the increasing demand for transport in the city, which is rapidly developing.

The Bus Éireann Waterford Development Plan 2007-2009 was outlined by Mr Tim Daly, Manager, Bus Éireann, Waterford, to an audience including local Councillors, T.Ds, Local Authority management, officials from the Chamber of Commerce and local business people.

The plan envisages a dramatic increase in the number of buses, services, routes and departures, and will change the face of public transport in Waterford.

Speaking at the event Bus Éireann and CIÉ Chairman Dr John Lynch said: “A major bus service expansion programme is planned for Waterford. We aim to deliver, in a very short time frame, dramatic improvements for customers – new high-frequency services on the main City routes, additional routes to developing parts of the city, more Commuter services, and a new, low floor wheelchair accessible fleet. This plan, which is underpinned by Transport 21, is about providing for the future public transport needs of Waterford, which is a growing city and a strategic hub for the South East region.”

The plan was also endorsed by the Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen T.D who said: “Under Transport 21, the Government's investment programme for transport, major upgrade projects on road, bus and rail services are either in progress or in planning in Waterford and will ensure that the county is well placed to continue to thrive as a national gateway driving development in the region. Bus Éireann currently operates a wide range of city, rural and local, and expressway public transport services in Waterford. Bus Éireann's development proposals which aim to provide more widespread and better quality services for the customer are timely and I welcome the ambition underpinning them".

The Bus Éireann Waterford Development Plan: Delivery Potential
The Bus Éireann Waterford Development Plan is underpinned by additional and new fleet to be provided under Transport 21, the government’s 10 year transport and infrastructure investment programme.

The key improvements planned for Waterford:
The introduction of a new low floor wheelchair accessible city fleet
Additional buses to facilitate an expansion in services for customers
The upgrading of frequencies on key City routes to every 12/15 minutes
More departures
More services
New routes

New Buses – replacement and additional
Under Transport 21, a new fleet of 13 low floor wheelchair accessible city buses is to be provided in 2007/2008, replacing the existing Waterford city fleet.

Subject to funding being approved, a further 22 buses are due to come into service in 2008-2009, and will enable Bus Éireann to deliver on its service expansion plan.

The Bus Éireann service expansion plan will also deliver improved frequencies on city routes:
A new 12/15 minute service frequency is planned for the: 2c St John’s Park/Patrick Street route 4c the Logloss/Clock Tower route 5c Hillview/Farran Park route The 360 service Waterford/Tramore will be upgraded to a 20 minute service frequency.

New Sunday services
Under the terms of the plan Sunday services could be introduced for the first time on all city routes, operating every 30 minutes. The Waterford/Tramore route would get additional Sunday services.

Plans for Park n Ride and High Frequency Corridors:
A Park & Ride site (linking WIT, Whitfield Clinic and the City Centre) is also under consideration by Bus Éireann along with a High frequency transport corridor (N25 Cork Rd to the Quays).

New City and Commuter Routes and Services
New routes and services are also to be introduced in Waterford.

In the city, two new orbital bus routes are planned.

The existing 5c Hillview/Farran Park route will be split and expanded to create a dedicated service for both Hillview and for Farran Park.
Furthermore, the Farran Park service will be extended to Williamstown to cater for increased demand in the area.

Commuter services will also be enhanced. Three new services will be provided including 8 new services to operate between Waterford and Kilkenny each way, linking the two major centres of population in the South-East, 8 new services will operate each way between Waterford/ Mooncain / Fiddown /Portlaw and Kilmeaden and 6 new services each way for Waterford/Mullinvat/New Ross.

In summary, the Bus Éireann Waterford Development plan can deliver:
278 extra departures on existing routes
136 extra departures on new routes
A total increase in departures of nearly 200%

fricatus

KC61 wrote: »

In fairness to Bus Éireann, there is a plan to improve the bus services in Waterford during 2008 and 2009, which has started with the delivery of new low floor buses.

<snip>

Fair enough, but there's nothing whatsoever in there about the Dunmore Road, home to 15,000 people. There's also no plan as far as I can see to link residential areas on the east side to the IDA park or WIT (or the likes of Ballybeg and Lisduggan to Waterford Regional Hospital in Ardkeen, going in the other direction).

Both the inner and outer rings are packed with cars (taking the very journeys I mentioned above), yet there are no bus routes running along them, apart from a short stretch near St John's Park.

Has any analysis of traffic patterns ever been done in Waterford? Has BE ever created a route to mirror those demand patterns? These are the questions we need to be asking before we tear up the Dunmore Road (we'll need to, since there isn't the space for a third or maybe fourth lane on most of it) and stick traffic lights at every junction.

ART6

fricatus wrote: »

Fair enough, but there's nothing whatsoever in there about the Dunmore Road, home to 15,000 people. There's also no plan as far as I can see to link residential areas on the east side to the IDA park or WIT (or the likes of Ballybeg and Lisduggan to Waterford Regional Hospital in Ardkeen, going in the other direction).

Both the inner and outer rings are packed with cars (taking the very journeys I mentioned above), yet there are no bus routes running along them, apart from a short stretch near St John's Park.

Has any analysis of traffic patterns ever been done in Waterford? Has BE ever created a route to mirror those demand patterns? These are the questions we need to be asking before we tear up the Dunmore Road (we'll need to, since there isn't the space for a third or maybe fourth lane on most of it) and stick traffic lights at every junction.

Couldn't agree more, particularly with your last para since that was exactly the point I was trying to get across. I would welcome a good, frequent, realistically priced bus service to save me the hastle of driving through town, but there is no bus service at all from where I live. So, to catch a bus on the Dunmore Road i would have to drive to the bus stop. Then where do i park?

The council made an excellent job of park and ride for the Tall Ships event. Is it beyond their wit to set up such a scheme again, with a number of P&R's around the city with services that do actually go where people want and when they want? It doesn't have to use big coaches -- more frequent 20 seaters or so would probably do just as well, as it did before. If they did that first, then I wouldn't be too bothered by their bus lanes and proliferation of traffic lights (most of the latter probably won't work much of the time anyway, as usual).:rolleyes: