Pregnant Man!!

NAGGIE03

Not to sure if this is even the correct forum to be posting this thread! Apologies if its not but im jus flabbergasted by the pictures in the paper this morning of a man named Thomas Beatie who is 22 weeks pregnant!
He was born a woman and had a sex change later on! His wife was not able to concieve so as he still had da bits he decided to give it a go! The pics really are something else! A man with a beard, underarm hair and man boobs!
Dont get me wrong, Im all for trans genders having sex changes etc but i jus think this is wrong on so many levels!!
Am i a prude or does anyone else feel like this!!!

tbh

maybe start off by explaining why you think it's wrong?

ShaneU

Was it this man?

NAGGIE03

I know im prob being really narrow minded but i jus cant help feeling theres something reallg wrong with seeing a pregnant man!

JC 2K3

Yes you are narrow minded and a prude.

Now I haven't googled it yet to verify that it's false, but it if it happens to be true then that rocks!

Reminds me of this site, which was a hoax but an interesting concept.

EDIT: He's a pre-op transexual man, which means it's not really a pregnant man, still sorta cool though.

tbh

well, obviously it's weird, like seeing someone flying. But I have to say, it's just a woman with no boobs and a hairy chest.

Nevyn

It is not a hoax.

http://advocate.com/issue_story.asp?id=52664&page=1

Labor of Love
Is society ready for this pregnant husband?
By Thomas Beatie
From The Advocate April 8, 2008
Labor of Love

To our neighbors, my wife, Nancy, and I don’t appear in the least unusual. To those in the quiet Oregon community where we live, we are viewed just as we are -- a happy couple deeply in love. Our desire to work hard, buy our first home, and start a family was nothing out of the ordinary. That is, until we decided that I would carry our child.

I am transgender, legally male, and legally married to Nancy. Unlike those in same-sex marriages, domestic partnerships, or civil unions, Nancy and I are afforded the more than 1,100 federal rights of marriage. Sterilization is not a requirement for sex reassignment, so I decided to have chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy but kept my reproductive rights. Wanting to have a biological child is neither a male nor female desire, but a human desire.

Ten years ago, when Nancy and I became a couple, the idea of us having a child was more dream than plan. I always wanted to have children. However, due to severe endometriosis 20 years ago, Nancy had to undergo a hysterectomy and is unable to carry a child. But after the success of our custom screen-printing business and a move from Hawaii to the Pacific Northwest two years ago, the timing finally seemed right. I stopped taking my bimonthly testosterone injections. It had been roughly eight years since I had my last menstrual cycle, so this wasn’t a decision that I took lightly. My body regulated itself after about four months, and I didn’t have to take any exogenous estrogen, progesterone, or fertility drugs to aid my pregnancy.
Our situation sparks legal, political, and social unknowns. We have only begun experiencing opposition from people who are upset by our situation. Doctors have discriminated against us, turning us away due to their religious beliefs. Health care professionals have refused to call me by a male pronoun or recognize Nancy as my wife. Receptionists have laughed at us. Friends and family have been unsupportive; most of Nancy’s family doesn’t even know I’m transgender.

This whole process, from trying to get pregnant to being pregnant, has been a challenge for us. The first doctor we approached was a reproductive endocrinologist. He was shocked by our situation and told me to shave my facial hair. After a $300 consultation, he reluctantly performed my initial checkups. He then required us to see the clinic’s psychologist to see if we were fit to bring a child into this world and consulted with the ethics board of his hospital. A few months and a couple thousand dollars later, he told us that he would no longer treat us, saying he and his staff felt uncomfortable working with “someone like me.”

In total, nine different doctors have been involved. This is why it took over one year to get access to a cryogenic sperm bank to purchase anonymous donor vials, and why Nancy and I eventually resorted to home insemination.

When I finally got pregnant for the first time, I ended up having an ectopic pregnancy with triplets. It was a life-threatening event that required surgical intervention, resulting in the loss of all embryos and my right fallopian tube. When my brother found out about my loss, he said, “It’s a good thing that happened. Who knows what kind of monster it would have been.”

On successfully getting pregnant a second time, we are proud to announce that this pregnancy is free of complications and our baby girl has a clean bill of health. We are happily awaiting her birth, with an estimated due date of July 3, 2008.

How does it feel to be a pregnant man? Incredible. Despite the fact that my belly is growing with a new life inside me, I am stable and confident being the man that I am. In a technical sense I see myself as my own surrogate, though my gender identity as male is constant. To Nancy, I am her husband carrying our child—I am so lucky to have such a loving, supportive wife. I will be my daughter’s father, and Nancy will be her mother. We will be a family.

Outside the local medical community, people don’t know I’m five months’ pregnant. But our situation ultimately will ask everyone to embrace the gamut of human possibility and to define for themselves what is normal.

Once a person has surgery to alter their gender they can legally apply to have their recorded gender changed. A person born female who has their breasts removed and has hormone treatment can then apply to have their recorded gender changed and is legally male and can get married as such.

I would suggest that everyone read the full article.

This couple have worked hard to be able to have a child and it seems it will be born to a married couple and into a loving and caring relationship and will be cherished which is what should be wished for all children.

Shelli

I think it's amazing and more power to them!!

The only thing I was a bit disappointed by was that he is a transgender.....so there's no hope of my OH carrying the next one when the time comes

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

it's a woman having a baby, so... nothing whatsoever strange about this.

Sherifu

Mordeth wrote: »

it's a woman having a baby, so... nothing whatsoever strange about this.

I agree, what's the big deal OP?

Redpunto

yeh, dont really see the problem as long as theyre loving parents does it really matter. There are plenty of heterosexual parents who do not deserve to be parents.

po0k

Move to BG&RH forum.

Nice contribution Redpunto.

First against the wall, eh?

Nevyn

Lets try and keep this civil and on topic.

Parenting Charter wrote:

Please be polite, and courteous when posting new threads and replying to existing threads.

No advice, or experiences related on this board of a medical nature is to be taken as a substitute for professional medical advice or attention.

REMEMBER that parenting is a subject which is extremely close to people's hearts, and try not to troll or flame.

Make allowances for the fact that some people dont think exactly like you do, and therefore will have different styles of parenting... Remember that just because they are different, doesn't mean they are wrong.

NAGGIE03

But he is a man by law! They should have tried a different path towards becomin parents, perhaps surrogacy.
If thats the way they want to go about it fair enough! But they should have not gone to the press with this! Have they given any consideration to how the child will be treated growing up or the effects of having so much testosterone in his body!!

JC 2K3

Who cares if he's man by law? He no longer takes testosterone now he's pregnant, so that's not really an issue. Your point about the child will be treated by their peers is valid, but ultimately a problem with society, and I don't think society being intolerant of "alternative" parents should be a reason to stop them having children.

Oryx

NAGGIE03 wrote: »

But he is a man by law! They should have tried a different path towards becomin parents, perhaps surrogacy.
If thats the way they want to go about it fair enough! But they should have not gone to the press with this! Have they given any consideration to how the child will be treated growing up or the effects of having so much testosterone in his body!!

Is your issue aesthetic, medical or legal? If this person is physically still able to carry a child to term then whether he should be nobodys concern but the parents. Why should they have tried a different path? Do you think its fairer to bring another completely different woman into the equation? Why should that be morally or even physiologically better? Im sure they researched any possible implications of their decision on the babys health. They sound like they will cherish their child truly and fully and see her as the gift she is. Better than lots of so called 'normal' parents out there who shouldnt have a dog, let alone kids.


And why not go to press if it helps to challenge the inconsiderate and ugly way they have been treated?

simu

NAGGIE03 wrote: »

Am i a prude or does anyone else feel like this!!!

In fairness, it is a pretty freakish story although I don't think it's wrong - they'll probably be ok as parents.

As for the article, what did that guy expect? Of course, people are going to be uncomfortable with it and act strangely when you're doing something so unusual. If he's trying to convince people he's male, carrying a child isn't the most effective way of going about it.

MDTyKe

They may be a man by law, but our laws today are hardly anything to go by. (s)He's still a woman by nature.

Rev Hellfire

Mordeth wrote: »

it's a woman having a baby, so... nothing whatsoever strange about this.

qft

I'm sure the headline "Woman has baby!" wouldn't have shifted as many papers

cooperguy

Im sorry but she is a woman! She is slightly hairier than your average woman but a woman all the same. What makes a man a man? The first thing I would put on the list is male genitals which she is severly lacking.

Even post-op I still believe that she would be a woman because scientifically speaking that is what she is, taking a knife to yourself/adding plastic wont change that. Though dont get me wrong I have nothing against him/her and would refer to her as male etc. out of respect for her wishes but saying there is a pregnant man out there is a bit extreme!

AckwelFoley

Being a pre op trans gender male, having all the reproductive organs of a female its not very supriing that this person can have a baby.

But there are alot of people that are born one in the body of the wrong gender. They are born male but female by heart and mind. I would respect these ppls wishes to be accepted as they gender they need to identify with.

It has taken me a long long time to come to this stage.. ten years ago i would be of the mindset that being gay was disgusting, now - while i still have no wish watch the intimate moments of a homosexual couple, i do feel very strongly that people that are of a different orientation than "the norm" involving concenting adults need to be treaed with respect and equality. The same goes for trans gender people. I can only imagine the dificulties these people have in life death their identity.

pork99

MDTyKe wrote: »

They may be a man by law, but our laws today are hardly anything to go by. (s)He's still a woman by nature.

Yes in this case the law is an ass. She is a bearded woman - in a less enlightened era she could have made a living appearing in a traveling freakshow.

We're into Monty Python territory here, "symbolic of his struggle against reality"

Nevyn

and your banned.

The_Minister

Kevin Myers wrote a very good article in the Irish Times today about this very case. Notions of gender have been corrupted by sexual politics
I disagree with some of his points, and as always he is OTT and aggresive, but I agree with alot of what he has to say.
Someone without a penis is not IMO, a man. Someone with a vagina, is a woman.

Nevyn

The_Minister wrote: »

Someone without a penis is not IMO, a man. Someone with a vagina, is a woman.

I consider that to be a very limited way of defining gender, but that argument is more suited to humanities.

Gauge

cooperguy wrote: »

Im sorry but she is a woman! She is slightly hairier than your average woman but a woman all the same. What makes a man a man? The first thing I would put on the list is male genitals which she is severly lacking

That's funny, the first thing I would put on the list is 'identifies as male.'

I suggest you look up the differences between gender and sex.

Carrigart Exile

Th elaw might say he is a man but nature says she is a woman, and now she is pregnant, methinks nature has won that argument.

Zee Deveel

I have to admit, at first, my reaction was a bit - arrgh, wtf, weirded... But, as it came up in debate in other message boards, and reading more about the actual case.. I say fair play to him/her. Arguments on the other board ranged from the sex/gender of him, to how the kid would get picked on, to it being just plain wrong, to there being nothing wrong with it...

Two posts on that board, I think were particularly enlightened, and definitely changed my view on the whole thing, to finding it a definitely positive thing, as opposed to the previous doubt/uncertainty/weirdedout-edness. I think, for me, it really emphasised the way that the unknown does often breed fear and doubt. One of those moments I really stopped and thought about the way I was thinking, and the processes that brought me to the conclusions I came to.

Anyway, these are the posts which I thought were particularly good...

On the other hand, sex change operations, especially the genitals, are cost-prohibitive. It's cheaper to do the hormones and the breasts than the genitals. I have a friend who is very much like this person. He appears to be a man, but he still has a vagina. He simply cannot afford to have a full sex change. If he (as he prefers to be known) was married to a woman who could not have children, and he decided to carry the child for her, I would think that's a wonderful sacrifice for someone who never wanted to be a woman in the first place.

[and when someone used the term 'gnarly' to describe their feelings on the article..

You know what's gnarly to me? Crack whores having babies, kids born with fetal alcohol syndrome or worse, parents I see every day with their kids out in the middle of the night crossing a five-line thoroughfare to get to Wal-Mart for diapers and some colored sugar water in plastic barrels they pass off as drinks for kids. There's a whole lot worse this kid could do where parents are concerned.

As for the stigma of having a transgendered parent, as long as that parent is loving and supportive, hell, it will probably hurt him (the tranny) more than the kid. Kids can be resilient IF they have parents who give them the esteem they need to muddle through.

- 30 something female, Atlanta, US

This just goes to show that for all the bleating on we do about equal rights for everyone, as soon as someone comes along who genuinely DOES have a different case requiring understanding and a level of compassion, all some people can do is see what is wrong with it.

I say good luck to him and his wife and I hope that they give birth to a healthy daughter and that she wants for nothing, but sadly I fear that xenophobes will make their lives a misery. That is not his problem, however. People need to check themselves.

-20something Scottish lady in England.

metrovelvet

Gauge wrote: »

That's funny, the first thing I would put on the list is 'identifies as male.'

I suggest you look up the differences between gender and sex.

Denial is very powerful. If he wanted to be a man so badly I wonder why he didnt have a hysterectomy.

Nevyn

Because of the shock to the endocrine system which means the testosterone treatments would be rejected.

metrovelvet

^ So in order to be a "man" which as far as I can see only extends to his haircut and facial hair, he had to remain a woman?

Nevyn

Again you are confusing phyiscal sex adn gender.

There is a big difference between a person in drag and a person dressing and behaving and conforming to a certain gender.

JC 2K3

But what does "conforming to a certain gender" mean?

Is "gender" just a societal mentality?

Nevyn

Again interesting qestion but the fact of the matter is this person had to pass the phyc tests and evauluations, live as a man and be checked upon before getting the testosterone treatments and then the surgery before becoming legally male.