Anyone using Bio-degradable bbs?

kevteljeur

Something I'm personally interested in is not having a big long-term environmental effect on where I'm playing airsoft; and I'm talking here about leaving behind millions of bbs everywhere. The majority of bbs being used here are non-bio-degradable and are likely to remain intact for a very, very long time, and one of the first things I noticed when I was reading up about what is airsoft, is that it is considered to be an environmentally-unfriendly sport.

Although I understood from Derek @ MIA that Gorse Hill is a bio-degradable bb only site, most of the others seem to be non-specific. I noticed from the second of the following links that even the so-called bio-degradable bbs are mostly not very different from the regular type, and aren't actually truly bio-degradable:

http://www.skirmish.nl/bbtest.php
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=/articles/bio_tests/bio_tests.htm


Are any of you using bio-degradable bbs? Does anyone else have a strong opinion about them, or am I alone in worrying about this?

(As a disclaimer, I've worked through a couple of bags of standard bbs, before having my wake-up call... )

Genghiz Cohen

kevteljeur wrote: »

I was reading up about what is airsoft, is that it is considered to be an environmentally-unfriendly sport.

Real steel shooters (like myself) do much more damage to the environment.
Which is worse;
300 odd grains of lead per shot (5-ish shots a day normal hunting, 100+ on a day of clay shooting)
Or
3000 (at the very most for me) plastic bbs.

I think in either America or central Europe, they changed to steel shot for shotguns for this very reason, the lead was found to be poisoning the lakes and stuff.

I'm going to avoid using Bios until I'm fully convinced there is no chance of them damaging my rifle/pistol, or until I get going to Gorse-Hill.

Lemming

I use Bio-BB's and have done pretty much exclusively since I started. Started iwth the old excel bio-x .25g which are now discontinued and were considered reasonably biodegradable, although I've now switched to Biotech BB (alias Bioval) which are supposedly the real deal biodegradable. I've seen no adverse effects on any of my kit, ranging from support, rifle, and GBB airsoft devices.

Fallschirmjager

well i used them a while back, i cannot remember the brand but they were terrible. they had a high rate of splitting or shattering, and i binned them as i did not trust them while people use the mesh face mask. also bb's do degrade, the time frame is measured in months to a year from memory, its that bio degradeable ones are faster....


edit: where do you buy those one Lemming, i might gove them a go??

Lemming

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

well i used them a while back, i cannot remember the brand but they were terrible. they had a high rate of splitting or shattering, and i binned them as i did not trust them while people use the mesh face mask. also bb's do degrade, the time frame is measured in months to a year from memory, its that bio degradeable ones are faster....

Most BBs afaik are in the five years time-frame vs. about a couple of years for the Bio-BBs. The Biotech ones apparently break done far faster (within a year, months depending on the climate).

edit: where do you buy those one Lemming, i might gove them a go??

Bought from ironfoot in the UK, although Eirsoft have the new [Bioval] .2g ones (bigger bags; 4000 rounds) in stock and have .25g on the way.

andros

Like Lemming said Bio-BBs have tendency to shatter more easly on impact eg. hitting mesh in the mask (not nice).

Bio-Val are made from bio-degradable compund but not only also Xtreme Presision are made form starch and other bio-degradable compunds. From this what I know Exel is making their BBs form BaSO4 (Barium Sulfate - Doesn't disolve in water so obviusly plants can't absorb it but even if they will absorb this - they will die because Barium is toxic. Barium Sulfate is more less safe because is nearly not water soluble.

In terms of quality, I can't say too much as not using them to long. (got them today and shoot 200-300 rounds). They seem to have same accuracy as plastic ones (Production technology is almost the same)

Lemming

andros wrote: »

Like Lemming said Bio-BBs have tendency to shatter more easly on impact eg. hitting mesh in the mask (not nice).

Fallschirmjager said that, not me :-p

But I've had no issues with Bio-BB's shattering; unless I'm firin them point-blank at a wall or something. So in which case ... well ... point blank into the face would be either negligence or acting like an asshole.

Bio-Val are made from bio-degradable compund but not only also Xtreme Presision are made form starch and other bio-degradable compunds. From this what I know Exel is making their BBs form BaSO4 (Barium Sulfate - Doesn't disolve in water so obviusly plants can't absorb it but even if they will absorb this - they will die because Barium is toxic. Barium Sulfate is more less safe because is nearly not water soluble.

The new Xtreme Precision biodegradable BBs use a starch compound (mimicking the BioTech/BioVal ones to an extent) but I'm not sure what else is in them since I've not seen any reviews of them yet. The older Bio-BBs do use a lot of compounds that are about as environmentally friendly as an oil-spill.

Have a read

andros

I know they use polystyren for instance. I guess purpose of this is to make them perish over the time. But they wouldn't be absorbed by plants and stuff.

kevteljeur

There was I was, crafting a response to all of the above, when you came along with the sort of link I needed. Thanks for that, Lemming! Perhaps when I've been around a bit longer I'll make this my cause and I'll evangelise this issue, and maybe you might help?

Yes, the problem is that the majority of the so-called biodegradable bbs are in fact about as environmentally friendly as the regular sort, which is not at all. The truly biodegradable ones are few and far between, but I'm hoping to get the Bioval type tomorrow.

Fallschirmjager

well the ones i had (fairly sure i got them from ehobby) where shattering on impact when i was test firing at home at a plastic target, also quite a few were shattering in the hopup and then jamming the barrel. i dont mean one in a 1000 either, it was pretty much every mag or every other mag. i was most worried when i went to check the target they had splintered quite badly hece my fear on the mesh masks. Now i would point out this was quite a while ago (early last year). so that put me off them but it looks like the technology has come on so i might try the ones Lemming uses...if an m60 can take it i guess that good enough for me...:D

5 years is a long time to decay, jeeze i guess my age and memory are going

Lemming

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

well the ones i had (fairly sure i got them from ehobby) where shattering on impact when i was test firing at home at a plastic target, also quite a few were shattering in the hopup and then jamming the barrel. i dont mean one in a 1000 either, it was pretty much every mag or every other mag. i was most worried when i went to check the target they had splintered quite badly hece my fear on the mesh masks. Now i would point out this was quite a while ago (early last year). so that put me off them but it looks like the technology has come on so i might try the ones Lemming uses...if an m60 can take it i guess that good enough for me...:D

5 years is a long time to decay, jeeze i guess my age and memory are going

Jeez that sounds like fairly shoddy quality Falls

I've gone through three brands of Bio-BBs (all in .25g) and not had a break/disintegration of BBs from any of my kit, save hitting something like a metal girder at point-blank range and then only sometimes; Steyr AUG, M15A4, BAR, M60, M1911 (GBB), or USP Compact (GBB) - I've yet to fire the MP7 so can't speak for that - all good.

I pay more for the Bio-BBs, but I don't mind paying for quality. I've tried Excel BIO-X (discontinued), Super King, and have settled with Biotech/BioVal.

Fallschirmjager

i will give the ones you recommended a go Lemming, also the price is about the same as far as i can see so thats good news as well.

it was one of those battery operated pop up target boxes (which incidentally are complete kak). what was scary was the distance i was firing at was not close, about 10 to 15 meters...i do remember thinking at the time that they may have been an old batch and perhaps had become fragile or compromised in some way.

anyways as i said it was a long time ago...so it looks like the new ones you got are the way to go.

kevteljeur

I'm going to go to Eirsoft today and pick up a bag of the Bioval bbs - I'll see if Tony has any interest in stocking alternatives to try out; there are a few and although I could order from one of the bb specialists, I'd like to buy local where possible. That said, the Bioval bbs got good write-ups.

If any of the dealers are following this, have you any interest in stocking any of the biodegradable bbs? And I don't mean the slightly biodegradable types like Excel, more like the ones they approved at the site that Lemming linked to: http://www.biodegradable-bb.com/

kevteljeur

On the off-chance that anyone is interested in biodegradable bbs, I received my shipment from Begadi.com yesterday, which included:

1st Target - bottle of 5000 biodegradable 'Colour' bbs, .23g
1st Target - bottle of 5000 biodegradable 'Colour' bbs, .25g
King Bio - 2 x bag of 2000 biodegradable black bbs, .25g

Not sure about the quality of the 1st Target bbs yet - I noticed a few duds in the bottle, and they're not very highly polished (not supposed to be, I think). If anyone is genuinely interested in them for whatever reason, I'll give you some to see what you think, PM me. I'll be trying them out at the All-Ireland and probably the weekend after at HRTA if they haven't toasted my AEGs by then.

senordingdong

Oh dear!

I thought my bbs were bio degradable!
Now I'll have to go pick them all up out of the garden!

Masada

2 of the lads on my team did a test with Bio BBs last week where one has goggles and a mesh mask on and the other shot him in the face from a reasonable distance, from what i have heard of it the BBs were just smashing and bits comming through the mesh mask, hitting the gogles underneath.,

kevteljeur

vtec wrote: »

2 of the lads on my team did a test with Bio BBs last week where one has goggles and a mesh mask on and the other shot him in the face from a reasonable distance, from what i have heard of it the BBs were just smashing and bits comming through the mesh mask, hitting the gogles underneath.,

Ouch. Do you know what brand they were? Close up, with enough power, even the Excels break up, but that doesn't sound promising. I'm still dubious about these now that I have them. You might get to see them tomorrow if you're about and fire a few to see.

If they are crap then I'll feel like a right eejit because they cost enough in shipping costs

Oglon93

I was there during that test v-tec was talking about and he is correct. They just broke apart at contact with anything some even broke inside the aeg but they were bbs made from potato starch, they biodegrade in 2 weeks which is not a reasonable time it is to quikley. Tony of eirsoft is selling biodegradable bbs(see link) http://www.eirsoft.ie/store/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=208 I use these and they biodegrade in around 3 months and are as strong as any other bb so nothing to worry about with them.:D

Cheeky monkey

I was one of the ones testing them we fired them out of an electric glock which would chrono around the 200 mark according to wgc and the bbs exploded from about 20 feet away. I had them shoot a mask that was in my hand and the bb got cut up and turned to little pellets which I'd say would be enough to cause some serious pain in your eye. Also they were easily chewed dar was scoffing them down :D

I think they were these bbs or atleast in that kind of packaging I'll try find out from Dave he owned them

http://www.wgcshop.com/pcart/shopper.php?itm=GG-07-103_cat_BBs

kevteljeur

I'll test 'em tomorrow to see. I can't imagine that the better brands have this kind oflack of integrity under stress, but we'll see. They're proving slightly more difficult to get into my mid-caps so far. I sort of expected that since they don't have a very high-gloss finish (such as the Bioval bbs). I have the Bioval bbs too.

kevteljeur

Informal testing with a hammer and a hard place (not very scientific, but effective) shows that the 1st Target have similar cohesiveness to the Bioval and Excel bbs. The Excel 'biodegradable' (they aren't really) were crap and a lot weaker - they split with little force applied.

I did have some trouble with getting the 1st Target bbs into my mid-caps though. Not sure if that was the bbs, the crap speed-loader or my haphazard technique though.

horgan_p

We are going to be trialing the starch bbs in a weeks time at ctg.
I dont have high hopes though.If they shatter on contact with a mesh mask then they are out the door.
they are Xtreme 0.20g (3500 bb’s) Biodegradable BB.

Lemming

Dear christ .... the amount of misinformed "omfuxx0r bio = teh noes" is crazy.

State the brand you're using rather than making crazy sweeping statements of "the starch BBs" or the like. To anyone not clued in, it reads as if all bio BBs are the anti-christ and to be avoided. I could buy plastic BBs of ill-repute, come up with similar behavioural characteristics and then make sweeping statements about plastic BBs.

kevteljeur

Lemming wrote: »

Dear christ .... the amount of misinformed "omfuxx0r bio = teh noes" is crazy.

State the brand you're using rather than making crazy sweeping statements of "the starch BBs" or the like. To anyone not clued in, it reads as if all bio BBs are the anti-christ and to be avoided. I could buy plastic BBs of ill-repute, come up with similar behavioural characteristics and then make sweeping statements about plastic BBs.

lol! "bio fudz = teh noes!" - this is a big part of my persistent posting in this thread - I want to test various brands and let people know if they're any good or not. I have seen some of what seems to me to be FUD directed at the biodegradable bbs, and I believe that a number of the brands are definitely better than the average bb. On the other hand, the Excel biodegradable seem quite fragile to me, and then all biodegradables get tarred with the same brush.

For the record, Excel biodegradable bbs are not true biodegradable bbs, and worse still they have a hollow centre (as well as being somewhat weak).


To be fair to the guys, Cheeky monkey did say that he thought they were G&G bio bbs. The downside of any is that they have a definite 'best before' - if the bbs were kept in light or damp conditions, I can't imagine they'd be good for anything after a couple of weeks.

And I hope that one day all the outdoor sites will be biodegradable bb only.

horgan_p

Lemming wrote: »

Dear christ .... the amount of misinformed "omfuxx0r bio = teh noes" is crazy.

State the brand you're using rather than making crazy sweeping statements of "the starch BBs" or the like. To anyone not clued in, it reads as if all bio BBs are the anti-christ and to be avoided. I could buy plastic BBs of ill-repute, come up with similar behavioural characteristics and then make sweeping statements about plastic BBs.

i believe its me you were quoting , now i've posted the brand.
my point was , if we cannot find "starch type" bbs which are safe for players then we arent going to stock them.
I did buy some before , they are long gone thank god because they were appalling and no i do not know what brand they were.

Lemming

horgan_p wrote: »

i believe its me you were quoting , now i've posted the brand.
my point was , if we cannot find "starch type" bbs which are safe for players then we arent going to stock them.
I did buy some before , they are long gone thank god because they were appalling and no i do not know what brand they were.

I quoted you since you were the last to post before me so it wasn't parcticularly aimed at you. There has been a lot of mention of "biodegradable" BBs and not much else.

Here's a thought;

Person 1: OMFG I bought an AEG and it suxx0rs! Watch out when you buy an AEG LOLZ
Person 2: Yeah, mine fell apart after like three weeks! So bummed out


Now, what's wrong with the above? Rinse, repeat, and apply to this thread replacing AEG with BB.

My point is (and backed up by kev) that there are a some dud brands of BIO-bbs out there, much the same way there are P-for-plenty of dud plastic BB brands out there. Bio-BBs are a fairly recent invention in airsoft, so naturally people don't know much about them. Simply stating a generic "they suck" or whatever is not particularly informative or knowledgable.

horgan_p

Lemming wrote: »

My point is (and backed up by kev) that there are a some dud brands of BIO-bbs out there, much the same way there are P-for-plenty of dud plastic BB brands out there. Bio-BBs are a fairly recent invention in airsoft, so naturally people don't know much about them. Simply stating a generic "they suck" or whatever is not particularly informative or knowledgable.

i agree completely ,which is why we (corkairsoftshop)will be testing as many different brands of bbs as we can get our hands on.

hoplite

Disappointed that the excel biodegradebable BB's dont do what they say on the tin, as they are easy enough to source from Irish retailers. Though probably not for much longer if they are such a poor product.

BIOVAL have released a new bioD BB

The BIOVAL BBB Max

According to their site:

Major Advantages:

1) 100% natural ingredients
2) 100% inert
3) 100% non toxic
4) Environmental friendly!
5) Perfectly spherical, no air pockets.
6) color = transparent! :eek: :cool:
7) Designed for tight high performance barrels
8) Big 1KG bags!

Linky
http://www.biovalbbb.eu/


I'd be interested in trying them if I could get my hands on some.

Lemming

hoplite wrote: »

I'd be interested in trying them if I could get my hands on some.

I'm currently sourcing 160k rounds of .25g BioVals, so whilst they aren't of the Max variety, you're welcome to try some of the .25g beasties

As for brands to test;

thus far I've tried the old Excel Bio-X (.25g) which are now discontinued, Super King Bio (.25g), and Biotech BB (aka BBB) in .25g. Biotech are rebranded now as BioVal. Performance-wise I've had no issues with any of the brands tried thus far, and breakage wise I've only noticed BBs coming apart (sometimes) at point-blank range to a hard surface like a structural girder or the like. Not sure as to how biodegradable the super kings are though.