DTT will not be Totally FTA?

Elmo

It seems to me that their will be about 10 free channels on the new DTT system in Ireland.

RTE 1, 2, TV3, TG4, their HD service, their plus one service and a teletext channel.

If UPC or anyone else gets their hands on the other multiplexs all other channels will be Pay Per View or Pay Channels.

Any thoughts?

TheDriver

I thought this was a foregone conclusion that other mux would be pay or controlled by a commercial organisation.
And don't forget the Dail channels they have promised us!

Mossy Monk

Not surprised and not bothered really. There are 4 channels FTA at the moment across the country. 10 would be an increase.

Elmo

Not surprised and not bothered really. There are 4 channels FTA at the moment across the country. 10 would be an increase.

Of 6 of the same

RTE One + 1
RTE Two + 1
TV3 + 1
TG4 + 1
HD Ireland for Live Sporting events
Dail TV (The only new service)
Teletext (Aertel: Not really a channel but it has to fit somewhere)

So the BCI will never control any of the services on their platform. Sounds like a wasted organisation IMO.

Mossy Monk

Who announced that there will be a +1 channel for the four terrestrials?

watty

Two "new" chs, Senead & Dail. They arn't new exactly either as they are on web and waiting to get plugged into DTT for "years".

They can't fit HD and four +1 channels

In fact without horrid quality you can't have more than the 6 channels (4 x regular, Seanead & Dail) without MPEG4. maybe 7 Channels.

There is supposed "eventually" to be a News24 and Education/kids channel.

RTE is up to something though. But I can't find out what exactly without hearing Black helicopter noises. I expect a surprise. I hope it's not a bad one.

The other Muxes (various numbers at various times since 1999) were always meant to be payTV.

Elmo

Who announced that there will be a +1 channel for the four terrestrials?

I have been informed that RTÉ want +1 services for their channels. I would be surprised if TV3 did something a little more orginal.

DMC

Elmo wrote: »

I have been informed that RTÉ want +1 services for their channels. I would be surprised if TV3 did something a little more orginal.

I've not seen this "news" anywhere else. I can't believe it will be the case.

byte

Elmo wrote: »

I have been informed that RTÉ want +1 services for their channels. I would be surprised if TV3 did something a little more orginal.

Can we have sources for this information? Or is it just an "opinion piece"?

If its just your opinions, I ask that you edit your posts as neccessary

channelsurfer

isnt it all going to be mpeg4 watty? someone posted the specifications here from the the DCMNR and it said MPEG4 .. no mention of mpeg2 for any of the muxes.

icdg

DTT will only be popular if it offers an incentive for the refusniks to go digital. If all that's being offered is the Dáil service (which will, I presume, be simply the existing Lenister House internal TV feed with some branding added) there will be no incentive for people to change to digital.

As for Pay-TV, most people interested already have Sky or Chorus NTL. Any DTT pay-TV service would be a downgrade from these and would need to be signifcantly cheaper in order to pick up viewers.

To be successful, DTT needs to offer the FTA-only viewer a significant amount of new channels. I think the ONdigital / Freeview experience highlights this only all too well.

Neither UPC or Sky should get the BCI muxes. They both have a vested interest in DTT NOT being successful.

watty

Maybe RTE will change to MPEG4, but they seem to be rolling out MPEG2 at the moment.

It's only a change of modulator and added head end encoders at Donnybrook. The Power Amplifier, aerials, feeds, backhaul all remain the same.

I agree that Sky & UPC should not have the Muxes. If there isn't a viable new party then RTENL should run it all.

Elmo

Maybe RTE will change to MPEG4

From what I have heard they are going with MPEG4.

Can we have sources for this information? Or is it just an "opinion piece"?

I can only state that it is what some people in RTÉ want, I cann't say anything else. (I do not work for RTÉ). I don't agree with it.

I agree that Sky & UPC should not have the Muxes. If there isn't a viable new party then RTENL should run it all.

Yeah I cann't imagine anyone being attracted to DTT because they have to pay for it. It has to be FTA.

rogue-entity

Ive probably said this already in other topics, but IMHO no DTT service will be successful unless it can provide FTA, the existing range of channels/services that those of us outside the cities can get for free anyway i.e:
RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, TG4, BBC 1, BBC 2, ITV and Channel 4.

UPC only operates (decently) in the cities where they have the fixed cable network and its only in these areas they really compete with Sky IMO. Outside the cities, you have to rely on MMDS, which doesnt carry the same range of channels, so Sky is a more appealing option, with the added bonus of providing all the BBC and ITV channels as well as Channel 4.

As I understand it, the total number of multiplexes available in the UHF band is limited as each transmitter will carry the same multiplex on a different frequency to avoid co-transmitter interference or something like that. I dont think it would be a bad thing, to allow UPC to provide PayTV services using the transmitters that cover the area's where UPC dont operate a cable network to give them potential of national service coverage, and allow them to compete more effectivly with Sky. To rent space as it where on an otherwise national network.

Sponge Bob

Elmo wrote: »

Yeah I cann't imagine anyone being attracted to DTT because they have to pay for it. It has to be FTA.

Well €3ma year has to be found to pay for transmission per chaannel( not per mux) , then there are programme rights etc.

UTV may opt to pay €3m a year and go in the clear.

Setanta will not want to be FTA . TV3 may pay €3m a year to go on the RTE mux .

Its not beyond reason that RTE would take a commercial mux(es) as well as 'their' mux . After all they ran cable TV carrying BBC and UTV for years did they not ??

Elmo

Its not beyond reason that RTE would take a commercial mux(es) as well as 'their' mux . After all they ran cable TV carrying BBC and UTV for years did they not ??

RTÉ and Eircom are seeking the extra commerical licences.

Ive probably said this already in other topics, but IMHO no DTT service will be successful unless it can provide FTA, the existing range of channels/services that those of us outside the cities can get for free anyway i.e:
RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3, TG4, BBC 1, BBC 2, ITV and Channel 4.

Those extra channels should be put on the extra commerical services and you should be charged a fee just like those of us in the cities. Either that or get a FTA sat.

DTT will have to be rolled out by 2012 regardless of what services are on it, BUZZ TV could be on it for all it matters. :eek:

Frisian

As I understand it, the total number of multiplexes available in the UHF band is limited as each transmitter will carry the same multiplex on a different frequency to avoid co-transmitter interference or something like that.

No, same Muxes can be on same frequency.(SFN)

icdg

icdg wrote: »

Neither UPC or Sky should get the BCI muxes. They both have a vested interest in DTT NOT being successful.

True.
It's possible that they see the writing on the wall also and are going to get their hands on those muxes to make them unviable or just to transfer their now mmds service over to them.
The latter might make cost saving commercial sense for them.

rogue-entity

Frisian wrote: »

No, same Muxes can be on same frequency.(SFN)

So how many possible muxes can you have on the UHF band, if analogue is turned off ? *looks over in Watty's direction*

@Elmo: Those in the cities can get the UK terrestrials for free also, if they have good reception from the local deflector. For those living in the cities, both Cable and Sattelite provide them and more. Those in the countryside are likely to either make do with what they get on the ariel, or get Sky. If I had the choice of paying a subscription to get something I can get for free, id rather be the stingy git and not fork a cent. I'd turn to Freesat or get a Sky subscription.

icdg

rogue-entity wrote: »

So how many possible muxes can you have on the UHF band, if analogue is turned off ? *looks over in Watty's direction*

@Elmo: Those in the cities can get the UK terrestrials for free also, if they have good reception from the local deflector. For those living in the cities, both Cable and Sattelite provide them and more. Those in the countryside are likely to either make do with what they get on the ariel, or get Sky. If I had the choice of paying a subscription to get something I can get for free, id rather be the stingy git and not fork a cent. I'd turn to Freesat or get a Sky subscription.

There are no deflectors in Dublin, at any rate, thanks to the massive take-up rate in homes passed Cablelink had during its era (when the only competition was Sky analgoue). NTL & UPC have let the near 100% take-up slip quite a bit thanks to tougher competition from Sky.

Deflectors had a condition in their licence that they were to switch off when DTT became available in their area. The licences are expired now anyway so they are supposed to be gone, but I would expect a crackdown when DTT begins in earnest.

gorm

watty wrote: »

RTE is up to something though. But I can't find out what exactly without hearing Black helicopter noises. I expect a surprise. I hope it's not a bad one.
.

maybe RTE wants all channels encrypted and you obtain a FTV card every time you pay your TV licence.

byte

Well, the 4 mainstay channels won't be encrypted, that's for sure. Unlikely that any digital-only RTE-owned channel will be encrypted either.

KeRbDoG

Any update if BBC and/or UTV and/or C4 will be on the Irish DTT service?

DMC

Don't expect an announcement on BBC1/2/UTV/Ch4 before the end of the trial in later in the summer.

scath

See http://www.rte2fta.com/2008/dtt-fta/#comment-1391 if not. I see a combo box of DTT/cable as a solution in exchange for UPC withdrawing their EC complaint on that aspect and let reciprocity deal go ahead. Business logic- UPC would save fees to BBC. They would save money, could even offer a FTA option via DTT-Cable combo to get in the door and make money from DTT pay sub commission per channel subscribed.

I suspect BBC would prefer to monetise on irish cable and satellite but Sky and BBC-ITV footprint beamed over here for free in here then charge the Irish operators isn't really fair,and not respecting spectrum soverignty. Sounds like Irish gov would wanna talk to Uk gov so that the Uk PSb BBC can be prevailed upon if needed to allow reciprocity on nil or matching cost as originally invisaged. Sky as a commercial operator have a right to do what they like and they must carry BBC ITV anyhow under Ofcom license requirements. Currently they take advantage of satellite for rte offering to help it respect programme rights by charging modestly for carriage so sky can offer irish service. One would expect RTE now to support DTT by dropping off Sky in support of RTE NL part platform (DTT)

Alternative sounds like slice of TV license for UK TV to make it FTA as such. Sub isn't viable for Irish DTT or Cable and would hand sky a differentiator. Looks like UPC overlooked this, didn't think about combo option!!!!

You can guarantee if RTE drop from Sky than Sky will be onto them for the combo box deal to upgrade all customers for multi-room hold onto customers here and continue multi-room!! Do UPC wanna really lose out by that? Best to a deal with DTT otherwise free UK FTA on Sky will get out and people will flock to freesat Sky in droves for the DTT-Sat box!!!! Loser-not Irish DTT, Irish cable and mmds! This part of complaint wise now in cold light of day? Doubt it! Time is shortening! Easy to get right before public launch when most of public not confused!

Move my thread if already discussed elsewhere.

scath

Also UTV unlikely to have problem with fta as advertising reach increased. It wants an Island of Ireland market. Problem is it would need to split with ITV except for UK news and compete with TV3 and RTE as some TV3 rights clash with it. Understandably TV3 would require black out of these here. It would have to break with ITV to be fair to TV3 so these two would compete with each other. Inevitably a merger would make sense resulting in more irish programming similar to RTE BBC NI partnership.

Also there's sense in BBC NI becoming a programming and advertising partner and news channel partner in RTE Group. This would offset monetisation costs, boost BBC NI coffers through slice of advert revenue for making NI programming, allow an Island of Ireland news channel with BBC News 24 international correspondents doubling up for both thus making Irish news channel viable. Also sense in TG4 and GDS in Scotland doubling up for advertising and TV license revenue purposes.

channelsurfer

scath wrote: »

Also UTV unlikely to have problem with fta as advertising reach increased. It wants an Island of Ireland market. Problem is it would need to split with ITV except for UK news and compete with TV3 and RTE as some TV3 rights clash with it. Understandably TV3 would require black out of these here. It would have to break with ITV to be fair to TV3 so these two would compete with each other. Inevitably a merger would make sense resulting in more irish programming similar to RTE BBC NI partnership.

Also there's sense in BBC NI becoming a programming and advertising partner and news channel partner in RTE Group. This would offset monetisation costs, boost BBC NI coffers through slice of advert revenue for making NI programming, allow an Island of Ireland news channel with BBC News 24 international correspondents doubling up for both thus making Irish news channel viable. Also sense in TG4 and GDS in Scotland doubling up for advertising and TV license revenue purposes.

a lot of sensible points there but knowing how long it has taken to get DTT this far dont expect utv or bbc to be free as there are way too many interested parties that want to keep them pay or not available (TV3 UPC et all)

watty

Cable in combo with something else?
Ha.. it's hard enough to get much of a selection of cable receivers, never mind all the features. It's operator driven, not consumer driven. They are not selling them, so cable operator forces down price and stifles innovation/competition.

Look at variety of DTT & Sat (and combos of same) compared to DVB-c and poverty of Cable PVRs...

You are not much likely to see a BBC/RTE partnership either.

Why has DAB not got BBBC Radio? It's crying out for decent content. Currently a waste of spectrum compared with what you can get on VHF-FM.

Zaphod

scath wrote: »

I see a combo box of DTT/cable as a solution in exchange for UPC withdrawing their EC complaint on that aspect and let reciprocity deal go ahead.

You can guarantee if RTE drop from Sky than Sky will be onto them for the combo box deal to upgrade all customers for multi-room hold onto customers here and continue multi-room!!

I see a solution whereby the EU Commission tell a pair of wannabe monopolists to go f**k themselves!