To get Full HD or not! Hmm

py2006

Hi folks,

I want to get rid of my old standard 32" tv in my bedroom so I am starting to do a little bit of research on the aul LCD's.

I was orginally looking for a full hd but then some people were saying that non hd channels look appaling on them. But then if I don't get one the games on the PS3 wouldn't look as good?

I quite like the Samsungs and I am looking at either a 32" or a 37" which are both just HD ready. There is also a nice Full Hd 37" here. But this is rather pricey.

As this is my bedroom tv, it will be used for a little PS3ing and a bit of standard tv viewing.

I would welcome any thoughts and suggestions etc.

PS: Whats the freeview thing?

Regards,

PY

IamBeowulf

The difference between 720p and 1080p isn't very noticeable on 32-37inch TVs.
If you want a cheap 1080p 37in LCD, check this out:

http://http://www.laptopsdirect.ie/Finlux_37_Inch_1080p_LCD_TV,_With_TVM_Luxury_3_Tier_Glass_Stand_BUN-37FLH760-1710/version.asp

If you'd rather a 32in TV, 720p will definitely suffice, and Panasonic have IMO the best picture quality in this range:
http://www.laptopsdirect.ie/Panasonic_TX-32LXD69A_32_Inch_HD_Ready_LCD_TV,_With_TVM_3_Tier_Glass_Stand_BUN-TX-32LXD69A-1712/version.asp

Either one is a great deal I think!

Freeview isn't available over here AFAIK.

PS I use Luzerntech on ebay to get good deals. Refurbished TVs at great prices. Check them out.

py2006

IamBeowulf wrote: »

The difference between 720p and 1080p isn't very noticeable on 32-37inch TVs.
If you want a cheap 1080p 37in LCD, check this out:

http://http://www.laptopsdirect.ie/Finlux_37_Inch_1080p_LCD_TV,_With_TVM_Luxury_3_Tier_Glass_Stand_BUN-37FLH760-1710/version.asp

If you'd rather a 32in TV, 720p will definitely suffice, and Panasonic have IMO the best picture quality in this range:
http://www.laptopsdirect.ie/Panasonic_TX-32LXD69A_32_Inch_HD_Ready_LCD_TV,_With_TVM_3_Tier_Glass_Stand_BUN-TX-32LXD69A-1712/version.asp

Either one is a great deal I think!

Freeview isn't available over here AFAIK.

PS I use Luzerntech on ebay to get good deals. Refurbished TVs at great prices. Check them out.

Thanks for that! Your first link isn't working for some reason!

Sqaull20

I have played the ps3 on a full hd and 720p samsung ( I own the samsung ), while I never noticed any difference with the games, I have noticed with Blu Ray...Spiderman triolgy, The Rock looked a nice bit better on my mates full hd sony, then it did on my samsung...

For an extra hundred or two you are better off getting it imo...

Komplett have a 37" full hd Samsung for €799 + €13 postage...

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=333298&view=detailed#ProductTabs

py2006

Sqaull20 wrote: »

I have played the ps3 on a full hd and 720p samsung ( I own the samsung ), while I never noticed any difference with the games, I have noticed with Blu Ray...Spiderman triolgy, The Rock looked a nice bit better on my mates full hd sony, then it did on my samsung...

For an extra hundred or two you are better off getting it imo...

Komplett have a 37" full hd Samsung for €799 + €13 postage...

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=333298&view=detailed#ProductTabs

Hmm that tv is advertised as both hd ready and full hd ???
How does normal tv look on your samsung?

IamBeowulf

py2006 wrote: »

Hmm that tv is advertised as both hd ready and full hd ???
How does normal tv look on your samsung?

I just checked out that Samsung on the Dixons site and it's quoted as 1080p too! Good bargain!

For my first link, remove one of the http's... sorry bout that

Sqaull20

py2006 wrote: »

Hmm that tv is advertised as both hd ready and full hd ???
How does normal tv look on your samsung?

Quite good, nothing special but your not going to get exceptional picture through Rte and Sky, without a hd box no matter what tv you get....

py2006

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Quite good, nothing special but your not going to get exceptional picture through Rte and Sky, without a hd box no matter what tv you get....

Well I guess aslong as the picture quality is no less than what I am currently seeing then I would be happy! Would I notice a difference with the quality of my PS3?

xanthor

py2006 wrote: »

Well I guess aslong as the picture quality is no less than what I am currently seeing then I would be happy! Would I notice a difference with the quality of my PS3?

PS3, you may see a small improvement.

Something you may want to consider regarding 1080P LCD TVs is how they handle SDTV, they can make what would be considered a reasonable quality picture on a 720P TV look pretty rough.

Samsung seem to have produced at least a few models that are worse than average in this respect too. I have the 40 inch version of that LE37 and some channels are just unwatchable on it.

dak

py2006 wrote: »

Well I guess aslong as the picture quality is no less than what I am currently seeing then I would be happy! Would I notice a difference with the quality of my PS3?

If you have a PS3 and a full HD ready Tv the best picture will be when you rent Blu-ray discs. As regards differences on games many of the games are only in 720 hence you might not see much of a difference .

I have the 40" M87 samsung and the picture is fantastic ! Howver I notice that the 37" has a contrast ratio of 8000:1 against the 40" which has a 15000:1 contrast ratio.

Suggest you go to somewhere like DID in Blanchardstown as they have 30 or 40 TV's set up side by side including Samsungs.

xanthor

dak wrote: »

I have the 40" M87 samsung and the picture is fantastic ! Howver I notice that the 37" has a contrast ratio of 8000:1 against the 40" which has a 15000:1 contrast ratio.

.

Contrast Ratios should always be taken with a pinch of sale, but far as i remember the 37 inch version doesn't have the "Super clear" panel that the bigger M8X models have.

py2006

dak wrote: »

If you have a PS3 and a full HD ready Tv the best picture will be when you rent Blu-ray discs. As regards differences on games many of the games are only in 720 hence you might not see much of a difference .

I have the 40" M87 samsung and the picture is fantastic ! Howver I notice that the 37" has a contrast ratio of 8000:1 against the 40" which has a 15000:1 contrast ratio.

Suggest you go to somewhere like DID in Blanchardstown as they have 30 or 40 TV's set up side by side including Samsungs.

Yea I was just in Blanch today! My head is dizzy with all the choices. Most places seem to stock the older versions ie m86 whereas Harvey Norman (I think it was) has the m87 models.

py2006

xanthor wrote: »

PS3, you may see a small improvement.

Something you may want to consider regarding 1080P LCD TVs is how they handle SDTV, they can make what would be considered a reasonable quality picture on a 720P TV look pretty rough.

Samsung seem to have produced at least a few models that are worse than average in this respect too. I have the 40 inch version of that LE37 and some channels are just unwatchable on it.

Well as I said its for them bedroom and I don't have digital tv there just plain old cable channels. So I am thinking now that I should look for a 720p. Do the larger 720p tv's deteriorate in picture quality on standard tv channels?

py2006

I like the samsungs I have to say. My pc monitor is a 22" Samsung.

But I have noticed that Komplett stock 4 different types of 32" 720p LCD TVs!!!!!

Samsung LE32R73BD --DVB-T--
Samsung LE32R84B
Samsung LE32R87BD --DVB-T
Samsung LE32S81B

At a quick glance at the specs when I compared them I can see very little difference.

And a quick glance at the 37" Comparisons shows that the 720p one is cheaper than one of the Full HD ones??

stevenmu

py2006 wrote: »

Yea I was just in Blanch today! My head is dizzy with all the choices. Most places seem to stock the older versions ie m86 whereas Harvey Norman (I think it was) has the m87 models.

The M86 and M87 models are identical and the same age. The only difference is that the strip at the bottom is silver on the M87 and black on the M86. The M87 is the general release model and the M86 is exclusive to Currys/Dixons etc, the cynic in me suggests that the only reason is for price matching purposes.

xanthor wrote: »

PS3, you may see a small improvement.

Something you may want to consider regarding 1080P LCD TVs is how they handle SDTV, they can make what would be considered a reasonable quality picture on a 720P TV look pretty rough.

Samsung seem to have produced at least a few models that are worse than average in this respect too. I have the 40 inch version of that LE37 and some channels are just unwatchable on it.

It can depend hugely on signal quality, I have the 46" version and SD looks fantastic almost all of the time, sometimes it looks almost HD quality. That's with an NTL digital signal though.

py2006

stevenmu wrote: »

The M86 and M87 models are identical and the same age. The only difference is that the strip at the bottom is silver on the M87 and black on the M86. The M87 is the general release model and the M86 is exclusive to Currys/Dixons etc, the cynic in me suggests that the only reason is for price matching purposes.


It can depend hugely on signal quality, I have the 46" version and SD looks fantastic almost all of the time, sometimes it looks almost HD quality. That's with an NTL digital signal though.

Does the size of the lcd attribute to the poor quality on SD? At a glance yesterday in Harvey Norman in Blanch they had the same channel on alot of tv's, it wasn't one of the demo HD clips, it was evident that on the larger screens the picture quality deteriorated.

dak

py2006 wrote: »

Yea I was just in Blanch today! My head is dizzy with all the choices. Most places seem to stock the older versions ie m86 whereas Harvey Norman (I think it was) has the m87 models.

I bought the M87 in DID

py2006

dak wrote: »

I bought the M87 in DID

What size? How do you find it?

xanthor

py2006 wrote: »

What size? How do you find it?

http://www.didstore.com/store_detail.asp?modelcode=LE40M87BDXXEU&subid=195

That's a pretty good price.

The 46 inch version is also listed, but with no price. So, i'm going to guess it's not available from DID at the moment.

dak

py2006 wrote: »

What size? How do you find it?

I bought the LE40m87BD . I also got an extra 5% off the 1089 price by haggling . I then bought the 3 yr warranty just to be on the safe side for 120!

Very pleased with it. Looks great even when off ! Only niggle I had was with PS3 set up and getting HDMI connection to 1080p . Got over this by using Component and digital audio connections to PS3 to get 1080i . I sure I will get it sorted eventually but not really bothered as very few games etc are in 1080 mode in any case . Most tend to be 720p


Just saw Argos selling this same TV for €1911... thats mad !

py2006

dak wrote: »

Very pleased with it. Looks great even when off !

Jaysus, not very reassuring!! How do the tv channels look? I have a PS3 that I am hoping to hook up to the one I have. I didn't realise there would be a bit of tinkering to get it looking good!

dak

py2006 wrote: »

Jaysus, not very reassuring!! How do the tv channels look? I have a PS3 that I am hoping to hook up to the one I have. I didn't realise there would be a bit of tinkering to get it looking good!

Don't get me wrong ! I'm very happy with it ! TV picture is spot on using SKY digital . I think my problem may have stemmed from a faulty HDMI cable as the connection on the cable broke. When you get 1080 running the picture is stunning. The tinkering was more to do with the settings on the PS3. You have to turn off some of the auto settings so that the PS3 will do a proper HDMI handshake. I've had a look on the web and it seems that HDMI handshakes from Tv's and boxes can be problematic with all makes of Tv's . Its worth persevering as Blu ray discs are amazing . I had intended to buy a Sony Bravia but after lookingg at the quality of the picture in the shop I kept going back to the Samsung ! Samsung make a lot of the panels for Sony anyway !

stevenmu

py2006 wrote: »

Does the size of the lcd attribute to the poor quality on SD? At a glance yesterday in Harvey Norman in Blanch they had the same channel on alot of tv's, it wasn't one of the demo HD clips, it was evident that on the larger screens the picture quality deteriorated.

Sorry I missed this before. Yes the size of the TV can make SD worse, or to be more accurate it can make flaws in a bad signal more noticeable. Signal quality matters a huge amount with an SD signal on a HDTV. A very strong clean signal (preferably a digital signal with high bandwidth/good compression) will upscale quite well. A noisy weak analogue signal, or a highly compressed digital signal with a lot of artefacts will upscale badly. A badly upscaled signal will lead to a lot of artefacts in the display and naturally a bigger screen will make these easier to see.

Another important factor with these TVs though when viewing them in shops is the default configurations they come with. As mentioned I got the 46" M87 and when I viewed it in the store the picture was horrificly bad. This was partly due to the signal being split over so many TVs in the shop, but even when I got it home it was quite bad. But a few minutes tweaking the settings (recommended settings available online) and it was a whole new TV, the picture is fantastic. The SD picture almost looks HD most of the time, untill you put on some real HD which is even more fantastic

(I have NTL digital btw, I'd imagine Sky would be much the same, if not slightly better, I think they use higher bandwidth and better compression)

xanthor wrote: »

http://www.didstore.com/store_detail.asp?modelcode=LE40M87BDXXEU&subid=195

That's a pretty good price.

The 46 inch version is also listed, but with no price. So, i'm going to guess it's not available from DID at the moment.

They do sell it, they just don't seem to ever list the price, they should match Powercity.

py2006

stevenmu wrote: »

Sorry I missed this before. Yes the size of the TV can make SD worse, or to be more accurate it can make flaws in a bad signal more noticeable. Signal quality matters a huge amount with an SD signal on a HDTV. A very strong clean signal (preferably a digital signal with high bandwidth/good compression) will upscale quite well. A noisy weak analogue signal, or a highly compressed digital signal with a lot of artefacts will upscale badly. A badly upscaled signal will lead to a lot of artefacts in the display and naturally a bigger screen will make these easier to see.

Another important factor with these TVs though when viewing them in shops is the default configurations they come with. As mentioned I got the 46" M87 and when I viewed it in the store the picture was horrificly bad. This was partly due to the signal being split over so many TVs in the shop, but even when I got it home it was quite bad. But a few minutes tweaking the settings (recommended settings available online) and it was a whole new TV, the picture is fantastic. The SD picture almost looks HD most of the time, untill you put on some real HD which is even more fantastic

(I have NTL digital btw, I'd imagine Sky would be much the same, if not slightly better, I think they use higher bandwidth and better compression)



They do sell it, they just don't seem to ever list the price, they should match Powercity.

Thanks for that! What has me worried now is that we tend to have a poor siginal from NTL digital at times. It comes and goes. Sometimes Sky Sports is gone completely just before a big footy game so I end up rushing down to the local to catch it. When it is working the picture quality is good (on crt) but it does get shaky and stuttery from time to time.

I have pretty much settled on 37" being the size for me. Although I am tempted by a 40" too (F86). But since my bedroom is only 10ft by 10ft its a bit much!

dak

py2006 wrote: »

Thanks for that! What has me worried now is that we tend to have a poor siginal from NTL digital at times. It comes and goes. Sometimes Sky Sports is gone completely just before a big footy game so I end up rushing down to the local to catch it. When it is working the picture quality is good (on crt) but it does get shaky and stuttery from time to time.

I have pretty much settled on 37" being the size for me. Although I am tempted by a 40" too (F86). But since my bedroom is only 10ft by 10ft its a bit much!

Hi . I used to have NTL Digital and the intermittent poor signal drove me to drop them. The strenght of signal have to be above 35 on I think line 5 of the service menu of the NTL box . Mine was nearly always below 30 and caused picture freezing etc . No such problems with sky ! NTL would only send an engineer out to check the main area cable strength if enough people in the locality complained.

py2006

dak wrote: »

Hi . I used to have NTL Digital and the intermittent poor signal drove me to drop them. The strenght of signal have to be above 35 on I think line 5 of the service menu of the NTL box . Mine was nearly always below 30 and caused picture freezing etc . No such problems with sky ! NTL would only send an engineer out to check the main area cable strength if enough people in the locality complained.

Yea we had a guy out before and he was trying to say because we had our tv's split that that was that cause! But even with a direct connection we had the same prob!

Niall1234

Guys, we have sky digitial (SDTV) and we're thinking of buying a new TV.

Have a PS3 and am too wondering wether I should go the whole hog for 1080p instead of 720p.

Planning on a 37 inch TV. Would the SDTV picture look best on a 720 or 1080 ?

ShaneU

Niall1234 wrote: »

Have a PS3 and am too wondering wether I should go the whole hog for 1080p instead of 720p.

Only bother getting a 1080p set if you're planning on buying a lot of blu-rays because the vast majority of ps3 games only run in 720p (so does skyHD)

Niall1234 wrote: »

Would the SDTV picture look best on a 720 or 1080 ?

won't make a difference if it's 720 or 1080, for SDTV you should be more interested in the contrast ratio.

Niall1234

BBC HD seems to be 1080i

What does Sky Sports HD broadcast in. 720i isn't much of a jump from SDTV. Is it really worth it at all ?

Are there any plans to bring out any PS3 games in 1080p format ?

Any recommendations on a TV I should go for ?

ShaneU

Niall1234 wrote: »

BBC HD seems to be 1080i

That's the same quality as 720p.

Niall1234 wrote: »

What does Sky Sports HD broadcast in. 720i isn't much of a jump from SDTV. Is it really worth it at all ?

720p. yes there is a big difference, there's no such thing as 720i

Niall1234 wrote: »

Are there any plans to bring out any PS3 games in 1080p format ?

Not until developers get used to the system, I'm guessing not for a few years, at the moment most games are just upscaled to 720p (cod4 for example), so a 1080p game is some way off.

Niall1234 wrote: »

Any recommendations on a TV I should go for ?

No not really, depends on your budget.

py2006

I thought I remember reading somewhere that some of the american ps3 games were in 1080p??? As in basketball, icehockey etc?

mathias

That's the same quality as 720p.

In this country its not !

Where this idea comes from is America , where HD CRT televisions are commonly available and you watch 1080i as its transmitted , and what you see is an interlaced picture. In which case 720p and 1080i can look similar.

Edit : " look similar " is all they do in the above case , because a 1080 signal has more resolution , being 1920 x 1080 whereas 720p is 1280 x 720 .
So the 1080 signal always has more detail , if your set can show it.

Over here all you can get is flat screens , and flat screens do not show 1080i as interlaced , they cannot show an interlaced picture , all they can show is progressive.
What this means is that any 1080i signal is de-interlaced , and shown as 1080p , so with a full HD set and a good de-interlacer you will be looking at a picture that is indistinguishable from 1080p.

Providing your set is big enough , there will be a noticable difference between that and 720p.

Zonda999

mathias wrote: »

In this country its not !

Where this idea comes from is America , where HD CRT televisions are commonly available and you watch 1080i as its transmitted , and what you see is an interlaced picture. In which case 720p and 1080i can look similar.

Edit : " look similar " is all they do in the above case , because a 1080 signal has more resolution , being 1920 x 1080 whereas 720p is 1280 x 720 .
So the 1080 signal always has more detail , if your set can show it.

Over here all you can get is flat screens , and flat screens do not show 1080i as interlaced , they cannot show an interlaced picture , all they can show is progressive.
What this means is that any 1080i signal is de-interlaced , and shown as 1080p , so with a full HD set and a good de-interlacer you will be looking at a picture that is indistinguishable from 1080p.

Providing your set is big enough , there will be a noticable difference between that and 720p.

So does that mean if you get sky hd ouputting 1080i into a full hd tv, it will look as good as a full hd source??

mathias

It depends on the set , but in general , yes !

Niall1234

mathias wrote: »

It depends on the set , but in general , yes !

But considering its a interlaced signal, won't the Hertz really only be half of what the Progressive scan hertz would be ?

mathias

But considering its a interlaced signal, won't the Hertz really only be half of what the Progressive scan hertz would be ?

No because Interlaced is typically double progressive because of its nature , so when de-interlaced it comes out the same as progressive. ( most 1080i = 60 , most 1080p = 30 )

Some more info here , second link is the most straightfoward explanation ,
http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/geoffreymorrison/0807061080iv1080p/

Now most HD content available over sky , like movies for instance , is originally 1080p@24fps , and interlaced ( converted to 1080i) purely to save on tranmission bandwidth , so if de-interlaced properly , will be indistinguishable from 1080p.

I will point out , that cheaper TV's can have de-interlacers that are not so good , but Im not going into the details of that here , just to say that once the signal is handled properly its indistinguishable from 1080p.

Zonda999

Definately.Most 1080p tvs though are from well-known brands.You do see the odd one from a no-body brand but you ought to get a good brand because whats the point of a 1080p tv if it does'nt have amazing picture quality

stevenmu

Niall1234 wrote: »

But considering its a interlaced signal, won't the Hertz really only be half of what the Progressive scan hertz would be ?

That used to be an issue with CRT TVs, they need a high refresh rate because after they draw the picture on screen it dissapears until the next refresh so a low rate leads to visible flickering. My old CRT could deinterlace the picture to display a progressive scan image but the flicker was unbearable (deinterlacing a PAL 50hz signal gave a 25hz reresh rate). With flat screens though (afaik) they keep the image onscreen untill the next refresh meaning you won't see any flicker at a low rate. Watching 1080p video a 24fps is super smooth.

mathias

With flat screens though (afaik) they keep the image onscreen untill the next refresh meaning you won't see any flicker at a low rate. Watching 1080p video a 24fps is super smooth.

Absolutely correct , which is why if you see a flatscreen advertised as " 100hz " flicker free , you know its BS , because that issue only affects CRT's , it has nothing to do with flatscreens ,

Sony are the biggest offenders at the moment when it comes to that particular con !

rogue.goofball

Hi there,
I've read through this thread and reckon there are a couple of knowledgable people knocking around... so can you advise;
What is the difference with the following LCD's:

LE37A556
LE37A557
LE37A558
LE37A656
LE37M86BD
LE37M87BD

All are 1080p. The M86 and M87 are the same internally. I think these two are the oldest of the bunch, because they are cheaper (€930) and have a lower contrast ratio (8000 vs 15000 for all the rest).
I believe this is important...is this to do with non-hd signals?

The first 3 are series 5, LE37A656 is series 6, which should mean it is newer - right? It is available for €1125. So is it worth the extra.
I cant see any proces for the series 5 sets in Ireland, in the UK they range from £899 to £725stg - but oddly the 556 is the dearest and the 558 is the cheapest. Can someone explain, as the technical specifications for all are almost identical.
Cheers.