Another First Build

KenH

Hi. After much procrastination, research and false starts, I've finally come up with a list of parts for my first build. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I've already bought these:

Corsair 620w psu
Antec P182 case
Intel e8400 cpu

So, the items in the following list would be debatable:

Samsung HD321KJ 320GB Serial ATA-II, 7200 UPM, 16MB
Logitech Z-4 2.1 Sound System
HIS HD 3870 IceQ 3 Turbo, GDDR4 512MB HDMI, ATI Radeon HD3870, PCIe
4096MB-Kit Mushkin XP2-6400, CL4 x2
ASUS Maximus Formula, Sockel 775, ATX, DDR2
LG GH20 Retail schwarz/beige SATA.....dvd writer
LG GDR - H20N S-ATA schwarz bare.....dvd rom
XilencePower CPU-Kühler LGA775 mit Heatpipe
XILENCE Power Gehäuselüfter 12cm X4
TP-Link TL-WN321G Wireless G Adapter
WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB, 16MB
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000

I wonder if anyone has the Xilence fans located here:

http://www2.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=10323&agid=42

The specs seem too good to be true.

Thanks in advance.

skuzzb

you could drop the dvd rom unless your planing on doing alot of direct copy's of cd's or dvd's. Also instead of the Raptor X get a Samsung F1 Spinpoint 750gb or 1TB they are faster larger quieter cooler and much more space. Never heard of xilence fans so i would go for an Arctic freezer pro 7 for the cpu cooler anyways. Alsothe P182 already has 3 120mm fans installed so only space for 2 more.

toco123

KenH wrote: »

So, the items in the following list would be debatable:

Samsung HD321KJ 320GB Serial ATA-II, 7200 UPM, 16MB
Logitech Z-4 2.1 Sound System
HIS HD 3870 IceQ 3 Turbo, GDDR4 512MB HDMI, ATI Radeon HD3870, PCIe
4096MB-Kit Mushkin XP2-6400, CL4 x2
ASUS Maximus Formula, Sockel 775, ATX, DDR2
LG GH20 Retail schwarz/beige SATA.....dvd writer
LG GDR - H20N S-ATA schwarz bare.....dvd rom
XilencePower CPU-Kühler LGA775 mit Heatpipe
XILENCE Power Gehäuselüfter 12cm X4
TP-Link TL-WN321G Wireless G Adapter
WD Raptor X WD1500AHFD 150GB, 16MB
Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000

Dump the Raptor and 320gb for a Samsung ~Spinpoint F1 750GB
Dump the 3870 for a 8800GT 512MB
Dump the XilenxePower CPU cooler for Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Instead of the LGs buy one standard cheaper Samsung SATA DVD-RW

KenH

The raptor boot drive stays. If there's a faster backup drive with similar capacity I might change that. There are rumours of a raptor refresh soon...bummer.

I'm going ATI as I want to crossfire in future. Can't SLI with the board. Had bad experiences with Nvidia anyway.

The Xilence power has better specs than the Artic Cooler
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?adp=0&agid=297&aid=10344&lid=2
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=4547&agid=297

I might change for the samsung dvd writer. I couldn't tell a difference between the specs nor could find any reviews of either. I assumed the LG had an edge in someway.

skuzzb:
I like to have a backup dvd rom just in case one goes.
Believe me I'd prefer the Raptor without the window on it but hardwareversand.de don't do the standard ones. It won't even be seen in my Antec P182. But I can't find either version cheaper anywhere else. The Raptor has fast random access times for the OS which makes the whole system feel snappier.
Again, I like to have two drives.....one for the OS and programs and the other for files and backup. 1 tb is rediculous space for me. Find me a fast sub-500gb drive and I'll be on it.....spinpoints seem good from what I've seen.
I know the Antec has three fans, but I'm going to replace them all with these quieter ones:
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=10323&agid=42

blackgold>>

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

No your not.

KenH

If I wasn't, I wouldn't have bothered replying. I gave reasons why I chose what I did. I'm open to being proven wrong. It's called debate.

toco123

look honestly how many people do you need to tell you that the raptor is utter **** and a waste of money? Have you even ever heard of Xilence Power? Specs are nothing.. Its results that count.. By the time you buy a second 3870 you could have used your money to buy a single better card.

KenH

Here's the specs of the raptor:
WD Raptor 150 GB WD1500ADFD-00NLR1
min - 50.9 MB/s
max - 84.9 MB/s
ave - 73.4 MB/s
access time - 8.2ms
burst rate - 99.2 MB/s

I realise they're crap value, but aside from SSD's and 15000rpm drives there's no faster access time. That's why I want it. I don't need lots of space in that drive.

No, I hadn't heard of Xilence before looking on Hardwareversand. So, they're lying? Specs and reviews are all I can go on for any of them and these users seem happy enough with Xilence.

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans,+Heatsinks,+Coolers/Case+Fans/80mm+Case+Fans/Xilence+Red+Wing+Case+Fan+8cm+?productId=19864

3870's are dirt cheap already. And I'll be buying another one in a few years when they're even cheaper. They also run cooler and are quieter than nvidia. These are more important to me than just performance.....and they're not that much slower than the 8800gt.

toco123

Look.. why are you looking for advice here... The Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro is by far the best available CPU cooler.

The raptor is not as fast as modern hard drives. its slower its expensive its got a smaller capacity and its utter ****e. Look unfortunately for you can waste your money and because you have not taking our advice, its not our fault that you chose the raptor.

Relise that computers are one of the fastest moving economies and on boards we rely on each other to help us stay up to speed. Thats what im trying to do. You will find awesome reviews on the raptor... but check the date of that review.

Its not just awful value, its completely obselete.
You can of course argue this but if you buy it, no one will here will care that you made the mistake on purpose at the end of the day.

Sqaull20

KenH wrote: »

3870's are dirt cheap already. And I'll be buying another one in a few years when they're even cheaper.

skuzzb

Just another point on the fastest raptor there (being the WD1500AFHD with 16MB cache) for anybody who would consider buying one

The seek times are infact faster for the raptor. 4.6ms read seek and 5.2ms write seek (average) and for a samsung spinpoint f1 its 8.9ms read and write seek.

Now as far as i know that when a hd goes to seek something it means its either going to read or write to it. This reading or writing in the samsung 96.9MB/s / 78MB/s (average) and for the raptor its 75.1/73.5 (average) meaning that although your getting to the start point faster your still gonna loose the race reading anything above 0.417 of a megabyte.

So i would be right in saying that for a whole 4.3ms faster at finding something its gonna take a whole 22% longer to read it.....

And buying silent fans to run with a raptor would be just silly, at least loud fans would drown out the noise a bit!!!

toco123

Say eye if you think Ken should buy a raptor?
Jesus the silence is deafening.

KenH

skuzzb wrote: »

Just another point on the fastest raptor there (being the WD1500AFHD with 16MB cache) for anybody who would consider buying one

The seek times are infact faster for the raptor. 4.6ms read seek and 5.2ms write seek (average) and for a samsung spinpoint f1 its 8.9ms read and write seek.

Now as far as i know that when a hd goes to seek something it means its either going to read or write to it. This reading or writing in the samsung 96.9MB/s / 78MB/s (average) and for the raptor its 75.1/73.5 (average) meaning that although your getting to the start point faster your still gonna loose the race reading anything above 0.417 of a megabyte.

So i would be right in saying that for a whole 4.3ms faster at finding something its gonna take a whole 22% longer to read it.....

Well okaaay! You back up your opinion with facts. Other than "I own one so they're great" or "The big bad Raptor is...um..bad" that is.:D

I would put it to you that the OS has lots of small files in different locations on the disk and that would make random access speed more important.

But I'm beginning to entertain that newer drives could be as fast in real world use.

So, if I was to go with another drive, I assume we'd be all agreed that a Spinpoint f1 would be the best option yes? I definitely don't have a need for higher than 500gb. That seems to be the cut off for fast 7200rpm drives.

sebastianlieken

why would we all be tellin ya stuff that jus wasnt true?

honestly, raptor...scrap it. get one of the new 32mb cashe hdd's. seagate do a good 500gb one for jus under €100. ul regret buying a raptor.

secondly, nvidia are at the top of their game at the moment, get an 8800gts. you defo wont regret it. still no prob with the ATI card, jus, ya could do better like.

Id still stick with that mobo, unreal overclocker. But i might be inclined to change it to the asus 680i (dont even bother lookin at a 790i) than you have the option of going sli.

as regards to overclocking with the e8400 (nice choice), that xilence cpu cooler could be upgraded to something a bit more fitting.

rest is okay IMO. seriously, mst of these guys know what their on about. dont jus put their advice to the side like that

KenH

sebastianlieken wrote: »

why would we all be tellin ya stuff that jus wasnt true?
dont jus put their advice to the side like that

Thanks for letting me know. I've no idea otherwise.

But seriously, how do you all know a Raptor is crap? Have you actually used one/seen it in use? I've read of people who swore against it but changed their mind when they tried it.

I tell you, there'll be war if I order a non-raptor and it doesn't feel as fast as what I have now.

toco123

Okay Ken.. there was a time when all of us wanted a raptor in our machine... That time has gone my friend.

Your choice is:

Samsung Spinpoint 500GB
Samsung F1 750GB
Samsung F1 1TB

The F1 series is faster.

skuzzb

The numbers I quoted above were fot the 1TB Samsung F1, the 750Gb is fractionally slower but still faster than the Raptor I am comparing to (which is faster than the one ken was looking at).

Its better value so get the 750gb, its the same price as the raptor Ken was looking at and trust me, i didnt think i needed a massive 700mb hard drive with my first PC. If you want a full run down of pretty much every new HD out there get your hand on issue 56 of Custom PC in easons or alike. The 750gb and the 1TB win their test of 32 hard drives for value and speed and they also point out that as fast as the raptor is, the current gerneration have had their day!

KenH

toco123 wrote: »

Okay Ken.. there was a time when all of us wanted a raptor in our machine... That time has gone my friend.

Your choice is:

Samsung Spinpoint 500GB
Samsung F1 750GB
Samsung F1 1TB

The F1 series is faster.

Hmmmm. Tough choice. I think I'm leaning toward raid1ing two 500gb drives. Then I can raid0 them when the new Raptors come out. :cool:

I'm going to get the Xilence stuff. Then I can be one person you know that has it. I'm curious about the performance and I'll report back on it. They won't break the bank anyway.

skuzzb

Well as they are so cheap, chuck in the Artic Freezer 7 too and test the difference....youll end up breaking even over buying the AC7 in town a week down the line when the vibrations from that design along with its extreamly low surface area fins and overheated E8400 from the first time you try push it 1mhz past its stock.......oh I give up we made our points!

Oh one more, from the looks of it that cooler isnt designed to use the airflow to cool any of your heatsinks (Voltage regulators, northbridge ect...) Notice on any pics of high end boards with heatpipes, the majority of the copper finned sections are located around the 775socket....this is to take advantage of the airflow from your cpu fan.
The one that came with your e8400 and the AC7 have this in mind.....actaully from the looks of it that cooler is an advanced P4 cooler.....

Im sure the 120mm fans will be fine tho (you dont need 4 tho the antec case comes with a few in there and theres prolly not space for all of them)

Best of luck with the build.

DirkVoodoo

KenH, try and spend some time reading actual tests of the equipment instead of listing off manufacturer specs to people on here. Would you trust Jeremy Clarkson quite as much (maybe you don't) if his reviews simply consisted of him reading from the manual?

Go to the overclockers forums and type "Arctic Cooler 7" into search and read some of the many user opinions. I've never even heard of the Xilence power and google doesn't seem to like it either.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-017-AR&tool=3

Next item, ah yes, the Raptor. Raptors were in fashion along with bellbottoms and formica furniture. Modern drives like the samsungs have been PROVEN to be just as fast bar the seek times. From SPCR:

"But, chances are, if you're in the market for the best performing drive available, the seek noise may well be something you have to live with. Western Digital doesn't really have competition in the sector. Seagate's 750 GB Barracuda 7200.10 reportedly comes close when it comes to performance, but that drive is one of the loudest we've ever tested."

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article622-page1.html

Most people with Raptors will tell you that the noise is a far worse price to pay than a few extra seconds at boot. Plus they are vastly overpriced

toco123

ah.. bellbottoms!

Look dude, most cheap cpu coolers such as the xilence power cpu cooler actually might perform worse than the stock cooler.


Why Raid two 500gb? I'd lean towards a 1TB F1

KenH

I want to have a backup drive. I did go with the 750gb versions though.
The Artic Pro is cheaper than the Xilence.

Thanks for the help guys. I've ordered. I'll let yous know.

blackgold>>

Many years ago I couldn't take advice either because I was always right
Goodluck with the build Ken.:)

KenH

blackgold>> wrote: »

Goodluck with the build Ken.:)

Thanks. The e8400 arrived today....box is abit battered but I'm sure it's ok. Better be. Can't wait to hook it up to see! :eek:

KenH

Well. I still haven't got anything from hardwareversand.de. I'm having real problems with them. They're telling me they haven't got the money so they can't ship. But the money is gone from my account.

I didn't put the reference number on it....it was my first time paying that way. I told them this, but still nothing.

I said if they didn't respond to me soon, then I was going to cancel the order and get my money back. Now today, the order is cancelled.

I think alot of it is the language barrier but I couldn't be bothered now with the service they give. I'm going to go with an almost as cheap UK company. That is when/if I get my money back. :mad:

blackgold>>

Jesus thats bad .
Of course you can get your money back as you have the receipt. Maybe you might have to send the receipt to them to prove it wasn't some donation from a nice irish person.
God i feel so sorry for you as i nearly did that the first time thank god the woman in the bank asked did i have a ref number.

About the service i've ordered a fair bit of hardware from them and never had a problem.And if you think you will get a uk site as cheap you won't i'm afriad.

KenH

It's just getting them to reply......it's gaps of 3 days. A real pain. I just want the stuff asap. I've found the prices at tekheads.co.uk pretty competitive. Not as cheap, but close enough. And it accepts credit cards.

The bank says it can send a reversal note to cancel the payment. I scanned and sent them the debit note I got from my bank and everything.

blackgold>>

What way are you contacting them by email?
Your better off phoning them at most you have to wait 5mins in th que.
Atleast you'll get your money back jesus that must of been horrib le waitting for them parts all along.(i feel your pain trust me):(


Credit cards is always good i'll have a look at that site nice one.

Edit them prices are a worse than kompletes lol

KenH

I got it sorted with hardwareversand.de. It's all good. Another excellent english site is ebuyer.com if you're interested though.

I'm up and running with my machine. There were a few hairy bits.....like having to cut off the ends of the copper pipes on the heatsink to make it fit. I thought I tightened it too much too, but motherboards seem to be tough SOBs.

I've got it overclocked to 3.6ghz and it's whisper quiet. I'm impressed with the fans I got.....case fans are hyper 120mms and the heatsink is Xilence. They can be loud enough (though not terrible) at full blast, but the Qfan system is great.

Overall, my hands were shaking putting it together , but it was a very satisfying experience I'll most likely be repeating in about two years. Thanks again for the advice.

Oh yeah, I'm impressed with the hard drives. They may be abit slower on startup (they are in seconds, but they could be pushing more MB with Vista) but general use is snappy. That could be due to there being no virtual memory anymore.....it's all in the 8GB! And it doesn't even fill all that.
I see the new Raptor drives have been anounced. Mmmm. Maybe.

BTW With the complications I ended up buying extra hardware I couldn't cancel. So, if anyone's interested, here's the ad:

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=53683&cat=8