Is that how much it cost to be a doctor

useful_contacts

Saw an episode of Scrubs today where Jd says "Elliot, I'm a hundred and thirty thousand dollars in debt,your going to be ok"

Is that just a MAJOR overreaction or is that how much it cost to train as a doctor these days?

kerash

If they said it on a tv show it must be true...

Dave!

It's an American show, they have to go way into debt regardless of what they study in uni.

useful_contacts

Thats some scary **** you would be working just to pay it off whats the point

Ponster

Err, "it's only a TV show" come to mind but that seems a little excessive.

Probably depends on the country and the actual profession of the doctor.
If you spend 5 years in the States in a Uni. where you have to pay for everything yourself then I can see a 5 year degree costing +$80K in fees, transport, lodgings....

TequilaMockingBird

A week or two of the prices my Doctor charges would probably cover it...

Maybe a couple of out of hours calls, and your in the black. Nice work if you can get the initial credit.

giddyup

Well it's a US show and 3rd level education in the US can be very expensive. I believe medschool (which is generally only done after a normal BA is completed) runs at anything from high-teens to 30-40K per year. So 130k in debt does not sound unreasonable.

On the other hand the cost of a visit to the doctor or dentist here can be exorbitant. I have good medical cover but when I see the bills coming in (paid for by the insurance company) I just think - what a crazy system.

Insurance co's trying to turn down claims at every opportunity and doctors getting away with stunning prices because they know the patient is not paying. It seems to be one huge money game. That's just my initial and possibly not that well informed observation.

D

I once knew an American girl who was +$250,000 in debt. She could not decide which course to do, started psychology and switched to medicine.

She was a complete tool.

Pythia

Medicine is only a post grad degree in the US, as is Law, Vet, etc. It is extremely expensive to do medicine, especially in a good college, so that's not unreasonable at all.

Eglinton

Yup. My cousin had to pay back 90K there when she finished her Pharmacy degree. The pay packets are also much higher there. Almost double to ours if you compare the raw figure rather than convert currency.

Piste

Must be all the Appletinis he buys.

galwayrush

She could practice here and pay it off in a few weeks.:rolleyes:

ec18

Yup thats the average for an american to be in debt for after college

Rb

Sucks to be American, every one of them bar the trust fund kids/kids with wealthy parents will come out of college severely in debt, and it takes years to clear it.

The bigger the name of the college, the more it's going to cost you afaik. It's scary to see the ads on US tv targetted at US Students, offering them instant loans of 10k-30k.

johnnyskeleton

American Universities charge a massive tuition fee. The ivy league schools will charge at least 20k per year for several years, so $130k could be for tuition alone, the cost of accomodation etc would add more to it.

In Ireland studying medicine is free if you are an Irish Citizen doing it as your first degree after school. You also do part of this as an internship, which I believe you get paid for. Then you do a few years working at a reasonable amount of money before youre fully qualified.

Pete4779

Just for comparison's sake: Royal College of Surgeons charges around €30k/year (probably more now actually).

The new postgrad entry medical school in Limerick charges €12k/year for EU entrants, and €30k/year for Non-EU entrants. I think EU includes Irish people as they would no longer be eligible for free fees as it is postgrad.

WoollyRedHat

It's also extremely expensive to see a doctor. With their nice high prices they'll be out of debt in no time.

Chunky Monkey

If I go to study in the UK I'll be more than £18 k in debt by the time I finish and that's for tuition fees alone. My gross income will be £20 k for the first guaranteed year of work. After that, if I'm lucky enough to not be one of the thousands of junior doctors without a job, I won't be earning much more for many years to come.

Spaceman Spiff

Most doctors in the U.S. would probably be ~$200,000 in debt. And that is only if they got into med school with a bachelor's, some have Masters or even PhDs before they get into med school.

cooperguy

The new Postgraduate Medical school in UL charges €12,000 per year. So thats €48,000 of debt by the end of the 4 years before you include rent etc.

Robbo

Spaceman Spiff wrote: »

Most doctors in the U.S. would probably be ~$200,000 in debt. And that is only if they got into med school with a bachelor's, some have Masters or even PhDs before they get into med school.

If you start med school with a PhD already in the bag, can you give yourself the title of Doctor Doctor when you qualify?

If so, would you feel like you're constantly the butt of an ongoing joke? Like Major Major from Catch 22.

phantom_lord

Spaceman Spiff wrote: »

Most doctors in the U.S. would probably be ~$200,000 in debt. And that is only if they got into med school with a bachelor's, some have Masters or even PhDs before they get into med school.

good thing it's only dollars and not real money.

Chunky Monkey

Robbo wrote: »

If you start med school with a PhD already in the bag, can you give yourself the title of Doctor Doctor when you qualify?

If so, would you feel like you're constantly the butt of an ongoing joke? Like Major Major from Catch 22.

Doctor is a real surname...

constitutionus

dont alot of people from ireland go to eastern europe to study medicine?

i seem to remember someone on radio saying it cost 12k a year to do the course in poland.

Ivicia

The irish medical colleges have a large portion of foreign students to funds their course. These students are generally from very well off families.

A junior doctor in the irish hospital system makes about €90 pa to €120 pa - They also have 6 weeks holidays and 4 weeks study leave every year and a variety of grants to help them continue to train.

Then if they get to consultant level basic salary is €170. Think they won't be too long paying back the loan somehow.

Pythia

constitutionus wrote: »

dont alot of people from ireland go to eastern europe to study medicine?

i seem to remember someone on radio saying it cost 12k a year to do the course in poland.

Yeah, there's definitely one in Budapest, also in the Caribbean somewhere.

constitutionus

Ivicia wrote: »

The irish medical colleges have a large portion of foreign students to funds their course. These students are generally from very well off families.

A junior doctor in the irish hospital system makes about €90 pa to €120 pa - They also have 6 weeks holidays and 4 weeks study leave every year and a variety of grants to help them continue to train.

Then if they get to consultant level basic salary is €170. Think they won't be too long paying back the loan somehow.

i think the charge for foreing students to study in ireland is 40k a year. i know theres some bloke taking a case against the government for not offering the fee paying place to irish lads that didnt get the points.

personally i donts see how he can lose. these guys dont have anywhere near the points, just massive amounts of wonga.

be very interesting to see how that goes.

KamiKazi

Piste wrote: »

Must be all the Appletinis he buys.

100 dollar appletinins

Chunky Monkey

International students everywhere have to pay more than the home students. If he has the money let him go study abroad. It isn't fair on those of us who have to work our butts off because we don't have the 'wonga'. If he wins his case a very unfair system will be developed.

A junior doctor in the irish hospital system makes about €90 pa to €120 pa - They also have 6 weeks holidays and 4 weeks study leave every year and a variety of grants to help them continue to train.

Then if they get to consultant level basic salary is €170. Think they won't be too long paying back the loan somehow.

That's because of the ridiculous amount of overtime they work though that'll change because hours are going to be cut right down with the introduction of the EWTD (48 per week). Also they're proposing halving the number of junior docs and they're more than doubling the number of med school places so there'll be a fight for jobs here too. There's also a limited number of consultant posts. Not every med graduate will get the chance to earn that huge amount.

Pete4779

Ivicia wrote: »

The irish medical colleges have a large portion of foreign students to funds their course. These students are generally from very well off families.

A junior doctor in the irish hospital system makes about €90 pa to €120 pa - They also have 6 weeks holidays and 4 weeks study leave every year and a variety of grants to help them continue to train.

Then if they get to consultant level basic salary is €170. Think they won't be too long paying back the loan somehow.

Those salary quotes for NCHDs/Junior doctors are absolute rubbish. A small few make that much, based on working 100-120hrs/week. If you do the equivalent of 2 or 3 full time jobs you'd be making that as well.

DOHC (Department of Health & Children) publish all salaries on their website.

Interns start on a 39 hour week salary of €34,668/year.
SHO (Senior House Officer) start at €40173 (first year after intern year) to €56,950 (after seven years from intern year, 13 years after starting college).

Some disciplines only do those 39 hours/week, some like surgical ones where you are on call for e.g., 56-72hrs in a row (yes all the time in hospital, at work, with a bleep) would pay a lot of overtime, but that is over course because you are working 3 people's jobs in reality.

A small percentage of very senior and older NCHDs earn over 100k/year. These would be people who are ~ 8-9 years after graduation. The norm would be around 60-80k based on working as an SHO, around 2-3 years after internship and working around 80-90hrs/week.

You get 15 days of annual leave per six months, it does not carry forward. You work on a 6 month contract until you are a consultant. If you are sitting a postgraduate exam approved by the medical council you get 10 extra days for leave during that period of 6 months.

Chunky Monkey

KamiKazi wrote: »

100 dollar appletinins

There's a $500,000 drink in a bar somewhere in the US. It's a cocktail with this vintage cognac and an 11 carat diamond ring at the bottom and two security guards stand beside the drinker until they're finished.

Unpossible

Chunky Monkey wrote:

International students everywhere have to pay more than the home students. If he has the money let him go study abroad. It isn't fair on those of us who have to work our butts off because we don't have the 'wonga'. If he wins his case a very unfair system will be developed

Not in finland, its free here for finns and non-finns alike

Chunky Monkey

Including students who aren't from the EU??

Darn I wish I could speak Finnish

Ivicia

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

If I go to study in the UK I'll be more than £18 k in debt by the time I finish and that's for tuition fees alone. My gross income will be £20 k for the first guaranteed year of work. After that, if I'm lucky enough to not be one of the thousands of junior doctors without a job, I won't be earning much more for many years to come.

Just come back to Ireland and you will be earning €8k in no time - lot of OT though.

In my view UK and Ireland are trying to reduce the numbers of non EEA and get our docs from europe.

panda100

Well Im a med student leaving college €15,000 in debt . I repeated a year so had to pay 6,000 for that but the rest was all free money given to me by the bank,which I sPent on clothes,hols,nights out etcetc.
If you walk into a bank and say your a med student they just throw money at you.Bank of Ireland gives you 2,000 yoyos each December for each year you complete. I used to think it was great having all this free money but its not nice leaving college in such a serious amount of debt!

CodeMonkey

I am surprised people aren't aware of this. It's one of the reason for the celtic tiger. It was way cheaper to hire computer programmers 10 years ago in this country than in the states. Their graduate pay package tends to be higher cause of the cost of college.

Sangre

A lot of the top Irish legal graduates will often try and go to NY as the money a lawyer starts on is HUGE because of the debt they'll be in. Although they will have to sit the NY bar and are usually required to do a 1 year masters in law which will set them back a fair few grand.

Ivicia

Pete4779 wrote: »

Those salary quotes for NCHDs/Junior doctors are absolute rubbish. A small few make that much, based on working 100-120hrs/week. If you do the equivalent of 2 or 3 full time jobs you'd be making that as well.

Some disciplines only do those 39 hours/week, some like surgical ones where you are on call for e.g., 56-72hrs in a row (yes all the time in hospital, at work, with a bleep) would pay a lot of overtime, but that is over course because you are working 3 people's jobs in reality.

A small percentage of very senior and older NCHDs earn over 100k/year. These would be people who are ~ 8-9 years after graduation. The norm would be around 60-80k based on working as an SHO, around 2-3 years after internship and working around 80-90hrs/week.

You get 15 days of annual leave per six months, it does not carry forward. You work on a 6 month contract until you are a consultant. If you are sitting a postgraduate exam approved by the medical council you get 10 extra days for leave during that period of 6 months.

All true but I don't believe its a small number making the 100K and making 100K 9 years after graudation is good money - I did say it takes a lot of OT. The EWTD is taking a long to implement and still a long way to go. I myself imagion that medical is longer in hours and you are probaly covering AE as well.

15 days per six month is the same as 6 weeks per years - I still think 5 weeks off per 6 months is good time off. Having to take it every 6 months is no big deal. Also there are more and more schemes so its not a matter of applying for a job every 6 months. If you get a SPR you have a job for 5 years.

The aim is to reduce the number of NCHD's and increase the number of consultants which really is the best option. Does seem mad to increase the number of medical places alright but the number of people within the HSE is set by government now.

Jumpy

Ponster wrote: »

Err, "it's only a TV show" come to mind but that seems a little excessive.

Probably depends on the country and the actual profession of the doctor.
If you spend 5 years in the States in a Uni. where you have to pay for everything yourself then I can see a 5 year degree costing +$80K in fees, transport, lodgings....

Try quadrulping that if you go to a good Univeristy.

Unpossible

Chunky Monkey wrote:

Including students who aren't from the EU??

Darn I wish I could speak Finnish

Yep, although there was a proposal to start charging non-EU but the finnish students had protests about it and I'm not sure if they have gone through with the proposal.

Many Universitys here will offer masters in english and the University of Applied Sciences schools (like I.Ts in Ireland) usually have at least two courses completly in english. I'm doing Information Technology in english and there are a lot of non-EU students in it, its actually how I met my wife

electric69

Jumpy wrote: »

Try quadrulping that if you go to a good Univeristy.

yep, its about 80-90k a year to study med here.

Im over 100k in debt and im not even in college!
I should be able to pay it back in a year or 2 if i get to do what i want!

unclebill98

Use to work with a Girl who owed about $140k for studing to be a Marine Biologist. After finishing college she worked with me making sambos for the summer before going back to work in a $80k p/a job.

I went to college for 1 year for free....

Hennessy

Sangre wrote: »

A lot of the top Irish legal graduates will often try and go to NY as the money a lawyer starts on is HUGE because of the debt they'll be in. Although they will have to sit the NY bar and are usually required to do a 1 year masters in law which will set them back a fair few grand.

It is p1ss easy though. From my experience.

Sangre

what is?

Hennessy

Sangre wrote: »

what is?

I did Harvard vis Irish permanent

Sangre

what?

Hennessy

Sangre wrote: »

what?

Wot?

Neamhshuntasach

I went to college at San Diego State University for 4 years. It would have cost me 34 thousand dollars a year if i had not managed to get a scholarship. 136K is ridiculous to go to college. No wonder they are still paying off their college debts when they are in their 30's.

Totally possible.......I find Irish people often take their education for granted - I was shocked at how many people in my year messed around and didn't bother coming to lectures. It took me a while to catch onto the fact it wasn't costing them anything, as they either lived at home or mammy and daddy paid for their accommodation, and they had no tuition fees. In the north most people take out student loans - I'm 16K in debt for doing a normal 4 year course and a lot of people owe even more. My sister is at Cambridge and she pays about £3000 tuition every year and then takes about £4000 for living costs. I can't imagine coming out of college debt free and I really wish people would realise how lucky they are. In the States it's even worse with their astronomical tuition fees.