running floors through without saddle boards

thekooman

hi all,
currently near the stage for flooring in our house.
we decided early on in the build to go without saddle boards when we put in the oak flooring and so have left the doors in a way to cater for this.

then i heard from a builder that we shouldn't run the flooring through the house without the saddles or else we could end up in serious bother because of the expansion.

i know we could leave an expansion and maybe put in a T-bar piece of oak at the door or a brass strip.

does anyone have experience of doing this? should we run the floor through with maybe double washers at the doors for expansion?

hippychippy

The builder you were talking to obviously just got out of a saddle, i.e he's a cowboy. There is no reason why you can't run timber floors through doorways, there are rules to laying solid floors and if you follow these, you can't really go wrong. Expansion gaps are essential but they don't have to be in a doorway. For a wide plank floor of say a 6 inch board, I would leave a 2mm gap every five or six boards, this combined with a 10mm gap around the perimeters would suffice for any expansion. I would advise that you leave the timber floor in the house it is going for as long as possible before laying. Hope this helps

thekooman

cheers hippychippy for the advice. it did get me thinking though throughout the day. might have a chat with the chippy (my lovely brother in law to be!) and see what he thinks. he hasn't done a floor like this before (just the normal one with saddles) so its an "experience" for him as well.

we are going with 3 inch oak 18mm so hopefully it would have less chance of cupping as well.

any other experiences out there?

hippychippy

If you need any advice, give me a shout, I have been doing them for years and have yet to have a problem with any floor, moisture content is the golden rule, just don't put the floor down too soon and you should be fine.

thekooman

its been in the house for 3 weeks but i only unwrapped it the other day. the house is about 20 degrees at night and 16-17 during the day.

what i should have said in my original post was that we have laid the battons so that the flooring runs parallel to the door where is as most cases when you run floors without saddles they should be run "through" the door, i.e. perpendicular, from gable to gable. a mistake on our behalf.
we only have 4 doors downstairs where this will happen so i think we will put in the 90mm oak T-bar for those 4, a mini saddle kind of thing.

upstairs we are ok as it is a floating floor so we can run through the doors from gable to gable.

hippychippy

You don't even need a t-bar at the door if you use 2mm washer spacers every four to five boards. It will obviously depend on your spacing from the wall to the doorway, as to where the board will end up at the doorway, i.e. it will hardly work out that your last board will work out bang on with the threshold, unless of course you start your flooring from the threhsold in.

thekooman wrote: »

its been in the house for 3 weeks but i only unwrapped it the other day. the house is about 20 degrees at night and 16-17 during the day.

what i should have said in my original post was that we have laid the battons so that the flooring runs parallel to the door where is as most cases when you run floors without saddles they should be run "through" the door, i.e. perpendicular, from gable to gable. a mistake on our behalf.
we only have 4 doors downstairs where this will happen so i think we will put in the 90mm oak T-bar for those 4, a mini saddle kind of thing.

upstairs we are ok as it is a floating floor so we can run through the doors from gable to gable.

ennisjim

Might be worth considering semi-solid or engineered timber flooring. I've used semi-solid throughout my house - just fitted yesterday actually. Much less concern about expansion/contraction with expansion allowance at walls only. Haven't any timber running through from room to room though since timber in rooms and tiles in corridor.

gsxr1

how old is you house?


if its new could you live with laminate for the first 6 months.


A new house contains an enormous amount of water and it takes a year (depending on the size) for it to dry.


even if you use washers and saddles your floor may still cup. This is due to the grain of the solid wood . Rent yourself a good quality moisture meter. (Haven hire have one I think)

Follow the manufactures instructions. And Get a qualified Carpenter to look at the job.

The builder has a good point. I have seen disasters with poorly experienced chippys running flooring through rooms with out enough expansion. 10mm under the skirting in sometimes not enough. As said . washer in less seen areas could be the way forward.

hippychippy

solid timber floors move, that's just the way it is, putting spacings in less seen areas only puts more pressure on the areas that you have not allowed for, I have taken out and repaired floors that have cut radiator pipes because expansion gaps were not allowed for, the 2mm gaps you leave will open and close, with expansion, contraction. you would have to look for the gaps to find them, they don't stand out. The biggest problem with timber floors is unqualified people laying them, I know guys that just decided to set up business laying timber floors, how hard could it be?? Anyone can lay a laminate or semi-solid without running into any major problems, leave the solids to guys that know what they are doing.

thekooman

its a 3 inch 18mm solid oak so cupping shouldn't be a problem with that width of a board, that why we went with it.
the house is new but has been plastered since Sept07 and the heating is on 5 weeks yesterday.
we are going to go with the mini-saddles(t-bars) for the 4 doors which all meet up. washers will be placed every 3 boards for expansion and 35 mm can be left between rooms at the doors. final decision


anyone have ideas on insulation for a battened floor? i was going to go with 4 inch rockwool as there is a heavy gauge polythene underneath the battens.

thanks for all the pointers everyone.

hippychippy

That should do the job, best of luck with it, keep the high heels off it

gsxr1

thekooman wrote: »

its a 3 inch 18mm solid oak so cupping shouldn't be a problem with that width of a board, that why we went with it.
the house is new but has been plastered since Sept07 and the heating is on 5 weeks yesterday.
we are going to go with the mini-saddles(t-bars) for the 4 doors which all meet up. washers will be placed every 3 boards for expansion and 35 mm can be left between rooms at the doors. final decision


anyone have ideas on insulation for a battened floor? i was going to go with 4 inch rockwool as there is a heavy gauge polythene underneath the battens.

thanks for all the pointers everyone.

use kingspan PU type insulation. it is beter than rockwool.

. best of luck with it.

Lex Luthor

we went without teh saddle boards also. 2 rooms & hall

we separated the living room floor from hall using those floor joiners...like the T-bars you mention. I think you will see them in any wood floor supplier. One of the major suppliers is F2F I think

The hall and kids room is all one floor

hippychippy

Don't insulate between battens, you should have plenty of insulation in the floor already, the air space underneath the floor is also very important.

ollielou

it pisses me off to see clowns still insisting on putting down saddle boards on a n oak floor[ive done a lot of floors]a lovely oak floor then you come to a door way and lo and behold a big ugly lump of white deal,or red deal ,or pirahana pine,or sapele /mahog,or if he has a machine shop he migh make an oak 1.look im a chippy with a machine shop ive been at this for yonks,do not let him put that crap on a solid oak floor,its a sin to do that ,expansion gap all around walls will be fine.and skirting on that afterwards,the only problem youll ever have is if you have a leak:D,then the floor will swell,or if you have a leak or damp slab,i uasually use plastic sheet then battens [for peace of mind],hope it helps,make sure building is dry also,hope this helps

Lex Luthor

hippychippy wrote: »

Don't insulate between battens, you should have plenty of insulation in the floor already, the air space underneath the floor is also very important.

I was going to say the same...I don't recall any insulation going down on my floor between battens

fendigal

Hi..just on a similar topic..we are laying slate floor tiles in our hall and want to put timber floors in sitting room etc. The slate is quiet thick and im just wondering will run into bother where the slate meets the timber. Its about 25mm thick.

thekooman

between tile and floor we used a tile to timber floor t-bar. they can be got in most builders providers. they allow for the difference between a tile(and adhesive) and 18mm timber floor. obviously the batton(or screed) would have been flush with the screed underneath the tile.

pegdrums

Hi, I hope you don't mind me messaging you directly but saw you gave someone advice on saddle boards on a thread. Rather than start another thread I thought Id go straight to yourself.

If I am installing a floor and wish not to use saddle boards, how do I work out what height my doors need to be? What is the minimum/ maximum gap between floor and bottom of door?

I've read lots of info but can't find that answer.

Many thanks and again apologies for contacting you directly.

e.r

pegdrums wrote: »

Hi, I hope you don't mind me messaging you directly but saw you gave someone advice on saddle boards on a thread. Rather than start another thread I thought Id go straight to yourself.

If I am installing a floor and wish not to use saddle boards, how do I work out what height my doors need to be? What is the minimum/ maximum gap between floor and bottom of door?

I've read lots of info but can't find that answer.

Many thanks and again apologies for contacting you directly.

Fire doors max 10mm gap.
Wouldn’t go less than 5mm, for stuff getting caught underneath.

chooseusername

e.r wrote: »

Fire doors max 10mm gap.
Wouldn’t go less than 5mm, for stuff getting caught underneath.

Min 10mm gap to finished floor for standard door size ,
recommended for ventilation requirements.
Page 12 here:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/62f06-technical-guidance-document-f-ventilation/#current-edition