How Much Have You Made

Gareth37

Just out of interest, how much have boards.ie members on here made from horse racing betting over the past few years. Im asking because over the past few years Ive made very samll profit, my average bet is €50 and my biggest profit has come mostly from football lays actually.

I assume that anyone on here making loses stop betting?

So....how much are you guys making?

Healio

Gareth37 wrote: »

Just out of interest, how much have boards.ie members on here made from horse racing betting over the past few years. Im asking because over the past few years Ive made very samll profit, my average bet is €50 and my biggest profit has come mostly from football lays actually.

So....how much are you guys making?

Its a hard thing for people to say, because the majority won't/don't take account of every bet they do. Then they only seem to remember the winning bets, like a day when they lose 12 tenner bets in a row and then might win 100 on the next, so in reality they are -30, but in their mindset they are winning 100. I used to do it myself.

I was up nearly two and a half thousand last year overall (on new years day '08) with a little help from John Part and only just scraped a profit in 2006. I'm actually down this year so far thanks pretty much solely to Kauto Star, but with the Flat season coming back, I'll get back into some laying and hopefully turn it around.

mike65

I just play at it, but yesterday I started with 10 and hit 26 before ending at 19.60 with yesterdays racing programme. I've certainly lost more than I've won but thats cos I dont stop when ahead.

Mike.

mdwexford

Id say about 2% of people on here make money from horse racing, maybe less.

Colonel Sanders

how can anyone bet on horses/football or anything else and NOT keep track of P&L? I like racing, I don't bet for 'fun' or for the sake of it. If betting never existed I'd still follow horse racing (I rarely bet on the flat but still love the big group one's).

Have been keeping P&L since 2003 and am ahead, not spectacularly so but a modest profit is better than none.

Gareth37

Healio wrote: »

I was up nearly two and a half thousand last year overall (on new years day '07) with a little help from John Part and only just scraped a profit in 2006. I'm actually down this year so far thanks pretty much solely to Kauto Star, but with the Flat season coming back, I'll get back into some laying and hopefully turn it around.

Thats fairly impressive Healio! Do you look around for the best odds or simply use betfair?

Gareth37

mike65 wrote: »

I just play at it, but yesterday I started with 10 and hit 26 before ending at 19.60 with yesterdays racing programme. I've certainly lost more than I've won but thats cos I dont stop when ahead.

Mike.

Do you do win bets or lay bets or both? And is it just horse racing that you follow?

Gareth37

mdwexford wrote: »

Id say about 2% of people on here make money from horse racing, maybe less.

Holy smoley!

So why do they keep betting if they cannot see consistent long term profits? I assume they bet really low.

Gareth37

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

how can anyone bet on horses/football or anything else and NOT keep track of P&L?

Yes, I agree.

mike65

Gareth37 wrote: »

Do you do win bets or lay bets or both? And is it just horse racing that you follow?

I only use PP so no laying (I find laying business to stressful! I shut myself out of Betfair) I use boring tactics based around e/w and insured bets. I've only got somewhat intersted in the nags recently football is my usual and my record is mixed (too many acumulators tbh).

Yesterday I bet on 5 races I think, all were cautious. Usually the 2nd/3rd fav backed. The madness of betting was illustrated yesterday in a novice hurdle - 4 horses, the outsider (about 50/1) romped to victory as the other three let him get a huge lead and they never reeled him back in.

Mike.

Gareth37

mike65 wrote: »

I only use PP so no laying (I find laying business to stressful! I shut myself out of Betfair) I use boring tactics based around e/w and insured bets. I've only got somewhat intersted in the nags recently football is my usual and my record is mixed (too many acumulators tbh).
.

Accumulators are a diaster. Straight win and straight lay bets seem the easiest. I really think laying is easier than win type bets. Also, do you realise that banking on a particular bookmaker means that you will not get the optimum odds or do you back at SP? How do you come up with your football bets, form or stats?

mike65

A mix, form has meant I've avoided Arsenal for example though you could take a handicap approach and bet on the team they play at say +1 that would have turned a handsome profit baring in mind they have drawn against Wigan and Boro!

Mike.

Mountjoy Mugger

mike65 wrote: »

Yesterday I bet on 5 races I think, all were cautious. Usually the 2nd/3rd fav backed. The madness of betting was illustrated yesterday in a novice hurdle - 4 horses, the outsider (about 50/1) romped to victory as the other three let him get a huge lead and they never reeled him back in.

Mike.

Yep. Heard about that. It was some Dutch lady jockey who was on it. The three lads in the race let her get a 25l start with a circuit to go and coudn't catch her.

Eejits.

Healio

Gareth37 wrote: »

Thats fairly impressive Healio! Do you look around for the best odds or simply use betfair?

Mainly just lay horses on betfair, its very hard to stay disciplined though when things are going bad, the temptation to up stakes, or just lay the next short price one gets really bad. I do use other bookies for other sports mainly Skybet for Darts, and then whatever the best price around for a football team is I'll go to the best bookie. Although I don't really like betting on football, mainly because I don't seem to know enough about it (or put differently I can't win consistently enough!!)

gareth37 wrote:

I really think laying is easier than win type bets.

I can't remember where I read it, might have been a betfair ad. It was a statement that said why bother picking one against the field, when you can pick the field against one. Which is what laying is. Although when laying i have a mixture of method and rules, no lays over 5/1 (betfair 6.0) and always limit liability to 25.00 or 50.00 per horse depending on the bank I'm using then use my diferent methods to pick horses.

mdwexford wrote:

Id say about 2% of people on here make money from horse racing, maybe less.

Definitely agree with that. Sure look at all these profits being made by bookmakers, we all can't be winning!!

Gareth37 wrote:

So why do they keep betting if they cannot see consistent long term profits? I assume they bet really low.

You'd be surprised, I used to work in a bookmakers shop, and the same people would come in day in day out. They wouldn't have a concept of a betting bank, i.e. 50 on this race, 50 on the next, 20 on the the one after, mix it up with the cartoon racing, sure through a few quid on the 49's. I don't mind people gambling for fun or enjoyment, but when you see them backing at steepledowns, or on the 49's and they lose and start moaning that really pisses me off.

Colonel Sanders

Gareth37 wrote: »

Holy smoley!

So why do they keep betting if they cannot see consistent long term profits? I assume they bet really low.

go into any bookmakers shop and see how many idiots bet on bags racing, virtual racing, numbers or do a football coupon or first scorer bet 'for a laugh' or 'just to have an ineterest. Over rounds on bags, numbers, first scorer bets etc are enormous and if a punter who isn't price sensitive (about 95%+ of them) do an accumulator then the coupling of profit margins in each selection makes it a horrendously bad bet.

a lot of these people do indeed bet small but they all add up. I went to hills down the road from me last tuesday to watch the cross country race from cheltenham. Was there for all of 25 mins, maybe less. One guy in there had at least 10 bets while i was there.

decies

cheltenham is the only time i really have ago at off course betting.i bet a fiver on every race plus was on a head to head comp on letsbet.ie overall profit 120 euro very happy with that .i go to a good few meetings around the southeast and have a few bets tenner a race dont win much,dont lose much thats the way i want it to be.

Gareth37

Healio wrote: »

Mainly just lay horses on betfair, its very hard to stay disciplined though when things are going bad, the temptation to up stakes, or just lay the next short price one gets really bad. I do use other bookies for other sports mainly Skybet for Darts, and then whatever the best price around for a football team is I'll go to the best bookie. Although I don't really like betting on football, mainly because I don't seem to know enough about it (or put differently I can't win consistently enough!!)



I can't remember where I read it, might have been a betfair ad. It was a statement that said why bother picking one against the field, when you can pick the field against one. Which is what laying is. Although when laying i have a mixture of method and rules, no lays over 5/1 (betfair 6.0) and always limit liability to 25.00 or 50.00 per horse depending on the bank I'm using then use my diferent methods to pick horses.




Definitely agree with that. Sure look at all these profits being made by bookmakers, we all can't be winning!!



You'd be surprised, I used to work in a bookmakers shop, and the same people would come in day in day out. They wouldn't have a concept of a betting bank, i.e. 50 on this race, 50 on the next, 20 on the the one after, mix it up with the cartoon racing, sure through a few quid on the 49's. I don't mind people gambling for fun or enjoyment, but when you see them backing at steepledowns, or on the 49's and they lose and start moaning that really pisses me off.

Thanks Clarky

Gareth37

mike65 wrote: »

A mix, form has meant I've avoided Arsenal for example though you could take a handicap approach and bet on the team they play at say +1 that would have turned a handsome profit baring in mind they have drawn against Wigan and Boro!

Mike.

Yes, I see. Cheers for that!

Gareth37

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

go into any bookmakers shop and see how many idiots bet on bags racing, virtual racing, numbers or do a football coupon or first scorer bet 'for a laugh' or 'just to have an ineterest. Over rounds on bags, numbers, first scorer bets etc are enormous and if a punter who isn't price sensitive (about 95%+ of them) do an accumulator then the coupling of profit margins in each selection makes it a horrendously bad bet.

a lot of these people do indeed bet small but they all add up. I went to hills down the road from me last tuesday to watch the cross country race from cheltenham. Was there for all of 25 mins, maybe less. One guy in there had at least 10 bets while i was there.

Yes, there seems to be a lot of idiots betting not able to come up with a "system" that yields long term consistent profit

Frazzled

mike65 wrote: »

I only use PP so no laying (I find laying business to stressful! I shut myself out of Betfair) I use boring tactics based around e/w and insured bets. I've only got somewhat intersted in the nags recently football is my usual and my record is mixed (too many acumulators tbh).

Yesterday I bet on 5 races I think, all were cautious. Usually the 2nd/3rd fav backed. The madness of betting was illustrated yesterday in a novice hurdle - 4 horses, the outsider (about 50/1) romped to victory as the other three let him get a huge lead and they never reeled him back in.

Mike.

How can you possibly only use 1 bookmaker?

The game is difficult enough without reducing your profits by not getting the best price available on what you back.

Even if you are a small / social punter, you are doing yourself a great disservice by operating in such a naive manner.

HiCloy

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Have been keeping P&L since 2003 and am ahead, not spectacularly so but a modest profit is better than none.

Similar here, started keeping track in 2005, lost a fair bit, like €0.1 per € bet, bit of a surprise as I had thought i was doing OK when i wasn't keeping track. Made €4 in 2006 (seriously, I didn't want to bet after Christmas leopardstown meeting to stay in profit!) and was up more last year.

Agree with the statements that 2% of people win, esp as this includes people who only bet on th grand national etc, and that most people don't keep track.

wb

Just want to agree with two people here who have got it spot on.

As Healio points out, most punters have no idea what a betting bank is. Personally, I've around 60 separate banks on the go for various systems. (I'm not just waffling here, and others that know me from a different site will confirm it). I'm a bit of a systems freak if the truth be told!

To explain though... I've a bank for each strategy. That would be the best way to put it.

If a certain trainer shows profit in maidens for example, that gets a 'bank' and I follow him using that bank (and a % of that bank as the stake on each bet on his horses)>

To say I've sixty banks however, does not mean I've sixty betfair acounts, or sixty paddy power accounts.

I use the same betting accounts, but keep my 'bank' totals in separate spreadsheets. A knowledge of excel is key for me.

Frazzled - You've hit the nail on the head. Why the hell would people take 5/1 about a horse that was available at 11/2 elsewhere? The margins are so ****ing tight in this game that we need every single notch of a price on our side!

Healio

Wb i knew you'd a fetish for racing systems, but 60 banks?? I hope your wearing protection!!

Healio

Frazzled wrote: »

How can you possibly only use 1 bookmaker?

The game is difficult enough without reducing your profits by not getting the best price available on what you back.

Even if you are a small / social punter, you are doing yourself a great disservice by operating in such a naive manner.

Thats the problem, most of your local bookies is full of lads who dont give a fcuk if there selection is 5/4 or 11/8, they just want to get on. For people who do care this is grand cause they keep the better prices available for us longer!!

Gareth37

wb wrote: »

Just want to agree with two people here who have got it spot on.

As Healio points out, most punters have no idea what a betting bank is. Personally, I've around 60 separate banks on the go for various systems. (I'm not just waffling here, and others that know me from a different site will confirm it). I'm a bit of a systems freak if the truth be told!

To explain though... I've a bank for each strategy. That would be the best way to put it.

If a certain trainer shows profit in maidens for example, that gets a 'bank' and I follow him using that bank (and a % of that bank as the stake on each bet on his horses)>

To say I've sixty banks however, does not mean I've sixty betfair acounts, or sixty paddy power accounts.

I use the same betting accounts, but keep my 'bank' totals in separate spreadsheets. A knowledge of excel is key for me.

Frazzled - You've hit the nail on the head. Why the hell would people take 5/1 about a horse that was available at 11/2 elsewhere? The margins are so ****ing tight in this game that we need every single notch of a price on our side!

Do you have these systems on the Internet? Can you tell us what your systems are?

wb

Gareth37 wrote: »

Do you have these systems on the Internet? Can you tell us what your systems are?

I've posted a few online over at Let's Bet. Can't give it all away though!


Here's a couple.... (my username is Hill16 over there btw)

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1751

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=405

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1225

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1797

Gareth37

wb wrote: »

I've posted a few online over at Let's Bet. Can't give it all away though!


Here's a couple.... (my username is Hill16 over there btw)

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1751

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=405

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1225

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1797

WOW! Impressive profits there, you are making good money from those particular systems. Im sure that others are following you too! :cool:

I have a kinda system laying SP favourites at Cork and Naas and backing SP favourites at Navan and Limerick. Check it out.

Gareth37

Gareth37 wrote: »

I have a kinda system laying SP favourites at Cork and Naas and backing SP favourites at Navan and Limerick. Check it out.

And its going strong at the moment

UnitedIrishman

I know that on my Betfair account I'm up €240 so far for the past 6 months of the year and thats not really consistent betting. Laying against horses has been a major winner for me.

That said I've easily thrown away 800-900€ in the local bookies on a weekly basis.

Of course from this simple fact it'll be a case of betting more on Betfair than stupidly down the bookies..

Gareth37

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I know that on my Betfair account I'm up €240 so far for the past 6 months of the year and thats not really consistent betting. Laying against horses has been a major winner for me.

That said I've easily thrown away 800-900€ in the local bookies on a weekly basis.

Of course from this simple fact it'll be a case of betting more on Betfair than stupidly down the bookies..

Yes, you cannot make money in the environment that is the bookmakers. You need to have the control of been relaxed and methodical. Rush bets are a bad idea too.

Im staying away from both grand nationals this year as I know I will just waste my money. Its no fun backing losers no matter what anyone says.

Collie D

Gareth37 wrote: »

Im staying away from both grand nationals this year as I know I will just waste my money. Its no fun backing losers no matter what anyone says.

Probably wise. Been a few years since I backed a winner in either. Had a straight run of three Aintrees a while back including Red Marauder at 33/1.

Last year's Aintre National was a ****ing disaster. Backed McKelvey and laid Silver Birch. Of course Silver Birch beats my selection by half a length @ 33/1. A swing of about a week's wages on half a length over 4 and a half miles of the nastiest fences in the world. My one and only foray into the world of laying. Wasn't even on Betfair, just told my Granny I would back it for her and then couldn't be bothered going to the bookies. Felt bad not paying her out.

finbarrk

My one and only foray into the world of laying. Wasn't even on Betfair, just told my Granny I would back it for her and then couldn't be bothered going to the bookies. Felt bad not paying her out.

You should have paid her.

Collie D

finbarrk wrote: »

My one and only foray into the world of laying. Wasn't even on Betfair, just told my Granny I would back it for her and then couldn't be bothered going to the bookies. Felt bad not paying her out.

You should have paid her.

I did, just reading how I worded that. Meant to say I would have felt bad. She got her money, killed me but I paid out.

wb

wb wrote: »

I've posted a few online over at Let's Bet. Can't give it all away though!


Here's a couple.... (my username is Hill16 over there btw)

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1751

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=405

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1225

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=1797

One more for the upcoming flat season:

http://www.letsbet.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=2824

masterK

I always find is funny when this question of how much you're up overall the amount of people that say they are about even. Most people never remember the losing bets but do remember when they win.

I've made steady profits over the last 2 or 3 years mainly down to systems I've ran, the best easily been during last years flat season. I usually always make a profit on the flat with my non system based picks but didn't last year.

fr wishy washy

The commission on betfair makes it almost impossible to make a profit, that's where a lot of people lose out.

wb

fr wishy washy wrote: »

The commission on betfair makes it almost impossible to make a profit, that's where a lot of people lose out.

The commission on Betfair?

What about the bookie over-round?

Betfair SP has beaten the traditional SP by 30% on average since it started a few months back - and that's assuming one is on the maximum 5% commission.

Can't understand why you single out betfair commission as a deterrent to making a profit when the over-rounds on most bookie books are disgraceful.

fr wishy washy

wb wrote: »

The commission on Betfair?

What about the bookie over-round?

Betfair SP has beaten the traditional SP by 30% on average since it started a few months back - and that's assuming one is on the maximum 5% commission.

Can't understand why you single out betfair commission as a deterrent to making a profit when the over-rounds on most bookie books are disgraceful.

Agree about over round,people obviously don't bother checking or just don't mind .My problem with the betfair commission is that whilst they have to charge something for their service 5% is too much.