Sub-standard accommodation highlighted on primetime

gurramok

Anyone watching it?

Shocking 3rd world conditions with no enforcement of regulations subsidised by the taxpayer to ignorant and reckless landlords.

Its disgusting how people are expected to live among sewage, ceilings falling down, dump outside the back, tiny flats with no escape etc.

So called housing boom has left some in society behind :mad:

johnnyskeleton

Absolutely disgusting.

But I don't understand how the whole thing works. For instance, the guy in the betsit in the liberties had a rent of €150 per week. Does the government pay the landlord this €150? He could probably get a much better place for a lot less, so does the system actually prop up sub standard accomodation?

If so, why do landlords have such an aversion towards rent relief tenants. I know they probably perceive them as not going to take care of the property or whatever, but with that much money to be made, how could they say no?

Why couldn't some of those people move to the fairly big but unoccupied houses in the area 20km-50km from Dublin to raise their families in better conditions?

Red Hand

Draht! I meant to watch this but forgot. Is it repeated again anywhere or do RTE have an online archive or something?

johnnyskeleton

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Draht! I meant to watch this but forgot. Is it repeated again anywhere or do RTE have an online archive or something?

They usually have it up on the website fairly quickly, but it's not there yet as far as I can see.

Red Hand

Thanks Johnny!:) Will take a look later at that.

gurramok

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Absolutely disgusting.

But I don't understand how the whole thing works. For instance, the guy in the betsit in the liberties had a rent of €150 per week. Does the government pay the landlord this €150? He could probably get a much better place for a lot less, so does the system actually prop up sub standard accomodation?

Afaik, there's a limit set by welfare to how much they subsidise a tenants rent and its means tested.
That 150pw is probably the max the tenant can get and the only other accommodation at that price bracket is probably the only other crappy flats around(the cork tenant explained this in a nutshell)
Basically, its bottom of the market for the poorest in society. To move up to better accommodation, they need extra money which they simply don't have.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If so, why do landlords have such an aversion towards rent relief tenants. I know they probably perceive them as not going to take care of the property or whatever, but with that much money to be made, how could they say no?

If they can get away with it without expenses or penalties for the repairs, they will.
I'd say it would cost a good few grand to repair the bad cases, the landlord sees himself as having no legal requirement to fix them due to the dodgy interpretation of the living standards laws.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Why couldn't some of those people move to the fairly big but unoccupied houses in the area 20km-50km from Dublin to raise their families in better conditions?

That's like saying, move to the middle of nowhere from your support structure. These people are the poorest, they rely on public transport to get around and we know thats non-existant outside dublin and will not help in getting a job either. (Same applies to the families with kids)

johnnyskeleton

gurramok wrote: »

Afaik, there's a limit set by welfare to how much they subsidise a tenants rent and its means tested.
That 150pw is probably the max the tenant can get and the only other accommodation at that price bracket is probably the only other crappy flats around(the cork tenant explained this in a nutshell)
Basically, its bottom of the market for the poorest in society. To move up to better accommodation, they need extra money which they simply don't have.

But 150pw is over 600 per month. You can get quite a decent place for that, especially outside the city centre.

gurramok wrote:

If they can get away with it without expenses or penalties for the repairs, they will.
I'd say it would cost a good few grand to repair the bad cases, the landlord sees himself as having no legal requirement to fix them due to the dodgy interpretation of the living standards laws.

What I meant is that there are lots of places to let which say "No rent relief". I always thought that this was because it was a bum deal for the landlord, but if they get paid the market rent, just only by the government, I don't see why landlords have such an aversion to it.

gurramok wrote:

That's like saying, move to the middle of nowhere from your support structure. These people are the poorest, they rely on public transport to get around and we know thats non-existant outside dublin and will not help in getting a job either. (Same applies to the families with kids)

I'm not suggesting that they be shipped out or anything, but I'm sure if given a choice of squalor in Dublin or relative comfort in the sticks, many would prefer the latter.

flyingdagger

The state of accommodation that I've seen in Dublin is disgraceful.I got a place by myself a few months back and it took 8 weeks of multiple viewing every day to find the place I have now.I saw places going for €1000 a month that were damp,grotty and tiny(one place didn't have a door in the bathroom,it had a shower curtain.bleugh)-and the sad thing is that there are people out there that will rent them for these prices.I'm amazed that landlords can get away with renting places out like this

LimerickCity

That ould lad from Limerick who had mushrooms growing out of his ceiling was in the local last night. I had a pint with him.
I think its terrible the way some of these people are being treated.

SimpleSam06

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

What I meant is that there are lots of places to let which say "No rent relief". I always thought that this was because it was a bum deal for the landlord, but if they get paid the market rent, just only by the government, I don't see why landlords have such an aversion to it.

Couldn't take in rent relief people sure. That would mean the government would find out they were renting a house, and they might have to pay some taxes. :eek:

Pa ElGrande

What do these slumlords still exist in 2008?

RTE did us a great dis-service with this program, they did not examine the reasons these places exist in the condition they do, if they did, it would show how the state via the councils is the key part of the problem and highlighting this is forbidden (i.e. not politically correct) under for an organ of the state. The program came accross as an excercise to force the scumlords to become the social workers for the state.

First when you are poor, by that I mean being unable to cope with life, mainstream society does not care about you, this is universal. In order to stop you as a poor person bothering mainstream society we have social services to hide the welfare class from our view. It also serves the employees of the councils and social services interests that there be poor people in substandard accomodation, otherwise they have no budget, no jobs, no inspectors and no justification for their existence.

If the council had the backbone the slumlords could be out of business tomorrow, but to do so would expose the bitter truth.

1. Better standards of accomodation cost more money and the councils have to allocate resources within a budget, poor people do not generate much of their own income to support this. So the dilemma for the guy controlling the budget is, you can house 1000 people taking in substandard accomdation, or you can house 500 people in accomodation that meets acceptable standards. The higher number looks much better on end of year reports and takes political pressure from the funtionaries of the council.

2. A high portion of the people on the councils list are often societies rejects, that often come with their own personal problems and lets call a spade a spade the majority of landlords are chasing yield and only want the professional couple - see the no rent allowance accepted adverts for accomodation on daft.ie.

3. Social status plays an important role in this, quite a lot of people do not want to live or rent next to council tenants, and will move or complain to their local representatives when this happens and in extreme cases will harass or torch the 'socially unaccaptable' tenant out of the neighbourhood. In most cases people will simply move from the area at the earliest oppertunity, property values will fall and the area becomes a 'ghetto'.

4. For landlords operating at the low end of the market, there really is no scope for increased rental yield, so to make money in that end of the market you have to control costs, that means neglecting maintenence as long as possible and cutting corners.
Remember the tenents who rent these places are there to be exploited, their only other choice is the street and all involved know this and use it to their advantage. As a tenant what are you doing to do? complain, and without the benefit of RTE's camera's filming the scene, get put out on the street.

The problems highlighted in the program can be fixed, but after lots of hand wringing and passing the buck, these will still exist in 10 years time.

• The council could if it wanted come in and repair these places and make the landlord pay for the repairs.
• They could come in and remove the rubbish in the back and exterminate the rats, and make the property owner pay for it.
• They could close the firetrap premises and move the family to one of the other close on 11,000 properties available to rent in this country.

But, that would upset the status quo....