Bad Reference????

rohe

Hi

am looking for some advice.

I have worked previously in a retail background and left my last job because I had problems getting my wages from my employers. I worked for the company for 8 months and left of my own accord

My manager gave me a written reference when I left stating how much of a good worker I was, my time keeping etc. I was pleased with the reference. Any jobs I have applied for I have included this reference and also the contact number for my manager. I have applied for loads of jobs the past few months and have had loads of interviews and i couldn't understand why i never got offered any work. So i knew it had to be my references

So i got a friend of my partner who works in an office to ring this particular manager and i found out she has been giving me a bad reference, saying i was a good time keeper and a good worker in general but she wouldn't recommend me for a customer service job as i hadnt the manner and that i didnt work well as part of a team, she wouldnt recommend me and she was glad i was gone as the place is better without me!!!!!!!!!

I am gobsmacked as to why she has been doing this, as when i was leaving the company they asked me not to leave done everything to try and get me to stay and the owner of the company text me a few weeks back asking was i looking for work.

Can she actually do this????

Is there anything i can do about this???

She has blocked every chance i've had of gaining employment and i am livid over this

RedXIV

unfortunately, as far as i know, there isn't alot you can do about this. The point of a reference is simply a formality for potential employers to gain more information and the reference you put down was simply a bad one. About the best you can do is make sure they don't affect any more of your interviews by leaving them off the CV or refer to the owner of the company who appears to want you back.

whereas if it's revenge you want, feel free to sign up to my weekly newsletter of evil plans and practical jokes

How Strange

AFAIK, it is illegal to give any negative comments in a reference. If a previous employer wanted to give a bad reference they can just give a basic reference like saying X worked here as a XX for XX amount of time and nothing more. The only time they can give a obviously bad answer is if they are asked if you applied for the job again would you be hired. They can say yes or no to this but can't elaborate.

I'm not sure what you can do about the bad reference though. I don't know if you have any legal recourse.

Puffin

Well obviously don't ever, ever give her name to another potential employer.

And I wouldn't bother going directly to her

Go to HR in the company. Ring them up, ask to go in for a sit down chat and explain the situation calmly and briefly. Then hold your tongue- they will probably be slightly panicked as, if what she said could be construed as false or misleading, she is putting the entire company at risk. And you are clearly the sort of person who will calmly, rationally deal with the situation (as shown by the fact you set up the meeting).

Then be open to what they offer- maybe your job back with a different manager, maybe they will offer a new person to act as a referee.

djk1000

I'm not an expert, but from seeing previous discussions about this, an old employer can say whatever they want about you, but, they have to be able to back it up. If they are defaming you, or if you talk to a solicitor and ask him/her to bring a defamation suit against this manager. As far as I know, the burden of proving what they say to be true is on them.

what the manager is saying on the phone, is no different to a journalist or radio presenter making a statement about someone. If they land in court, they have to prove what they said was true.

But, this is not legal advise by any means, just what I have heard before.

If it comes to it, I'd say the words "you" "legal" and "defamation" used in the right polite way would put a stop to it.

Miss Fluff

AFAIK a referee can refrain from comment but should not specifically give negative feedback. Obviously now it is a case where you can never give the cow as a referee again. Do you have an old team leader or a more senior manager instead? She obviously has been doing you no favours whatsoever.

As posted above , they can not say this unless they have details like a verbal warning , meetings they had with you regarding this dates times and situations. Otherwise this can actually be taken as slander and they can be reported .

rohe

Puffin wrote: »

Well obviously don't ever, ever give her name to another potential employer.

And I wouldn't bother going directly to her

Go to HR in the company. Ring them up, ask to go in for a sit down chat and explain the situation calmly and briefly. Then hold your tongue- they will probably be slightly panicked as, if what she said could be construed as false or misleading, she is putting the entire company at risk. And you are clearly the sort of person who will calmly, rationally deal with the situation (as shown by the fact you set up the meeting).

Then be open to what they offer- maybe your job back with a different manager, maybe they will offer a new person to act as a referee.

The only problem with this is, its a small company, basically a husband and wife own it, and they employed this manager and whenever she says goes basically, she does the hiring and firing, whenever i had problems relating to hours or wages etc i would go to the owners who told me to go to the manager as it was nothing to do with them, but yet if there was a problem with my work or if i was sick or anything it would be the owners who rang me, i just dont understand why she would do this

dudara

Moved to Work & Jobs

dudara

How Strange

Deleted User wrote: »

As posted above , they can not say this unless they have details like a verbal warning , meetings they had with you regarding this dates times and situations. Otherwise this can actually be taken as slander and they can be reported .

I am still sure that even in that situation they cannot say anything but they can refuse to give a reference which basically tells the prospective employer that you were a sh1t employee.

I used to work for a large corporation and we would only ever confirm that the duration of employement, the job title and yes we would or no we would not rehire the person. We weren't allowed say anything more.

I really don't understand why there is a law about not giving negative or bad references if the person who has been wronged cannot take some action for the bad reference.

rohe

Deleted User wrote: »

As posted above , they can not say this unless they have details like a verbal warning , meetings they had with you regarding this dates times and situations. Otherwise this can actually be taken as slander and they can be reported .

the mad thing is i was never in any trouble when i worked there.

i never recieved a warning or anything, and she said in the verbal reference was i was a good worker but i hadnt the manner for customer service skills and that the whole place was happier without me,

how do i go about reporting it??

rohe

RedXIV wrote: »

unfortunately, as far as i know, there isn't alot you can do about this. The point of a reference is simply a formality for potential employers to gain more information and the reference you put down was simply a bad one. About the best you can do is make sure they don't affect any more of your interviews by leaving them off the CV or refer to the owner of the company who appears to want you back.

whereas if it's revenge you want, feel free to sign up to my weekly newsletter of evil plans and practical jokes

the owners of the company wouldn't go against the manager, they have no backbone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rohe

Miss Fluff wrote: »

AFAIK a referee can refrain from comment but should not specifically give negative feedback. Obviously now it is a case where you can never give the cow as a referee again. Do you have an old team leader or a more senior manager instead? She obviously has been doing you no favours whatsoever.

their was literally only the manager and the two owners running the shop, no supervisors, team leaders etc and when i was leaving i asked the owners orginally will i put them down as references and they said no, nothing to do with them, give the manages name and number and she'll deal with it.

I have been unemployed for the past 3 months over this cow, i have applied to so many jobs and have had loads of interviews and never once got offered a job, all because she's spiteful, for what i really dont know

Nody

Deleted User wrote: »

As posted above , they can not say this unless they have details like a verbal warning , meetings they had with you regarding this dates times and situations. Otherwise this can actually be taken as slander and they can be reported .

There are ways around that though, for example if you ask "Would you hire this person again?" and you say no you don't have to explain it was because you did not like their clothes style or sound like you're thinking for 30s before you say yes. You can also state that it is your personal opinion that person X lacked in skill X with out quantify exactly what you compare to etc.

Personally though I either give a good reference (because I think they deserved it) or refuse to give one at all.

Miss Fluff

Because you had a falling out, and had to leave, because they were not paying you you could say that you left on bad terms because of this?

Ginger

not entirely true that they cant give you a bad reference they cant give a false one.. that goes for good and bad!

For example, if they said the person was a bad timekeeper they would be required if challenged to show the records to prove this..

leeroybrown

There always seems to be a huge degree of confusion about this. There is no law prohibiting an employer from giving you a bad reference but they do need to be in a position to back their allegations up. A bad reference could result in a civil case for defamation. Due to this it is strongly advisable not to give a bad reference or just to say that they can't comment beyond the basic standard reference. Many companies and most large companies make this a matter of policy to avoid potential legal problems.

EDIT - I'd also add that the situation above the manager has quite obviously stepped miles over a very delicate line and is quite clearly making unfounded and unprovable statements. The easiest and most cost effective way to deal with this would probably be to push your previous employer into resolving this by way of a threat of legal action.

seamus

leeroybrown wrote: »

There is no law prohibiting an employer from giving you a bad reference but they do need to be in a position to back their allegations up.

Just highlighting this very important point. It is not illegal to give a bad reference, just a very dumb thing to do.

Best advice is to use only the written reference and not give the manager's number in future.

January

Or leave them off your CV all together and tell them that you were travelling for eight months.

rohe

seamus wrote: »

Just highlighting this very important point. It is not illegal to give a bad reference, just a very dumb thing to do.

Best advice is to use only the written reference and not give the manager's number in future.

the only problem with the written reference is i have been for two interviews and both interviewers said that its not worth the paper its written on, as they personally dont trust written references and would always contact the person on the reference to verify it

and to most interviewers it would seem very strange that she gave me a great written reference and then give me a very bad verbal reference

rohe

seamus wrote: »

Just highlighting this very important point. It is not illegal to give a bad reference, just a very dumb thing to do.

Best advice is to use only the written reference and not give the manager's number in future.

the only problem with the written reference is i attended two interviews and both interviewers said to me that the reference is not worth the paper its written on, as they would not trust written references and would always contact the person on the reference to verify what they've said

and as i said below it would seem very strange that this manager gave me a great written reference and then gave me a bad verbal reference

the_syco

rohe wrote: »

the only problem with the written reference is i attended two interviews and both interviewers said to me that the reference is not worth the paper its written on, as they would not trust written references and would always contact the person on the reference to verify what they've said

and as i said below it would seem very strange that this manager gave me a great written reference and then gave me a bad verbal reference

Just a thought: if the letter was written by her, then wouldn't it be in itself proof that she was slandering you, as the letter spoke of you nicely, but when they rang her, she spoke ill of you?

cronos

the_syco wrote: »

Just a thought: if the letter was written by her, then wouldn't it be in itself proof that she was slandering you, as the letter spoke of you nicely, but when they rang her, she spoke ill of you?

Damb she just got "Lawyered!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWpF-4NSUoo

Hobart

rohe wrote: »

the only problem with the written reference is i attended two interviews and both interviewers said to me that the reference is not worth the paper its written on, as they would not trust written references and would always contact the person on the reference to verify what they've said

and as i said below it would seem very strange that this manager gave me a great written reference and then gave me a bad verbal reference

Why don't you ring her? Tell her it has come to your attention that her written word does not seemed to be backed up by the spoken one. Tell you have had feedback from prospective employers that would tend to put you in a less that perfect light, as opposed to the written reference she has given you.

I would also ask her for a more up to date reference, and see what she says.

derry

Man that is some bad bitch you worked for

And as for the boss hiding behind her skirt he is obviously a even bigger bad SOB who benefits from this package without paying you your wages and then gaining more profit

So the only solution I can think of is to get as many companies (as many friends as you can find to make up makey up companies with nice names like bank of Novia Scotland Investments whatever )as you can invent to ring up and ask for your reference and basically as there is no money to be made from giving out references wasting time talking to other companies she is bound to stop taking those calls eventually and alway start the calls with passing them through the Owner so as to take up his time and he will probably ensure that she gets a ear full and tape all the calls

If she something which is so really totally untrue and is costing you the ability to gain employment you might be able to with a good solitior sue in court for damages and the court of civil suit the evidence doesn't have to be 100% like criminal court it only has to be sufficient proof

Whats the bet the new worker is going to be some hapless new immigrant who wont know his rights

These nasty SOB seem to exist in ever increasing higher numbers in Ireland

It very difficult without running foul of the law of libelous litigation to tell all your mates and any new workers how bad these SOB can be so
How you would be able to spread the word around is best served with a successful court case in your favor and you can shout from the roof tops forever then this outfit at this court case were found guilty of this this and this

But to be honest I am gob smacked she says the half what she says in the phone calls she is obviously a real stupid bimbo

Also the come back to us routine is them trying to get you to cave in come back and accept working for nothing
EVIL SOBS

Who knows maybe if you get it together correctly the last in the thread will be a link to to a civil court case you won joe soap worker Rohe V evil SOB forced to pay out for worker enslavement methods


Derry

rohe

derry wrote: »

Man that is some bad bitch you worked for

And as for the boss hiding behind her skirt he is obviously a even bigger bad SOB who benefits from this package without paying you your wages and then gaining more profit

So the only solution I can think of is to get as many companies (as many friends as you can find to make up makey up companies with nice names like bank of Novia Scotland Investments whatever )as you can invent to ring up and ask for your reference and basically as there is no money to be made from giving out references wasting time talking to other companies she is bound to stop taking those calls eventually and alway start the calls with passing them through the Owner so as to take up his time and he will probably ensure that she gets a ear full and tape all the calls

If she something which is so really totally untrue and is costing you the ability to gain employment you might be able to with a good solitior sue in court for damages and the court of civil suit the evidence doesn't have to be 100% like criminal court it only has to be sufficient proof

Whats the bet the new worker is going to be some hapless new immigrant who wont know his rights

These nasty SOB seem to exist in ever increasing higher numbers in Ireland

It very difficult without running foul of the law of libelous litigation to tell all your mates and any new workers how bad these SOB can be so
How you would be able to spread the word around is best served with a successful court case in your favor and you can shout from the roof tops forever then this outfit at this court case were found guilty of this this and this

But to be honest I am gob smacked she says the half what she says in the phone calls she is obviously a real stupid bimbo

Also the come back to us routine is them trying to get you to cave in come back and accept working for nothing
EVIL SOBS

Who knows maybe if you get it together correctly the last in the thread will be a link to to a civil court case you won joe soap worker Rohe V evil SOB forced to pay out for worker enslavement methods


Derry

the mad thing is though i left on good terms with all of the people working there including the owner and manager, even though i left because they wouldnt pay me properly!!!!!

they just stabbed me in the back for no reason, mind boggling

and the lawsuit thing, what she said about me was i was a good worker, good time keeper and good attendance, but i had a bad attitude, had no manner whatsever and i couldn't mix or relate to people i had no social skills and was bad with people and she was glad i was gone and so was everyone else!!!!!! this is the same manager who gave me a lovely written reference and asked me to stay with the company when i was leaving, the same manager who said if i ever needed anything ever just to call out, the two faced b*tch

i got a friend of mine to ring up and ask the owner of the company for a reference just to see what he would say and he gave me a bad reference saying nearly word for word what the manager said but added that i couldnt get along with my colleagues and he said one of us had to go and it was me that had to go, making it sound like he got rid of me!!!!!!!!

I contacted the law centre they said they couldnt help me as it was a case for slander(and i would have to prove it was slander, how i go about that ihave no idea)they recommended i contact NERA, so i did they told me they couldnt help me either, but to contact the Data protection people, so i contacted them and guess what!!!! they couldn't help me either, so have no idea what to do from here.

I dont want to let them away with it as they have f*cked up my chances of gaining employment, after having 4 interviews 2 weeks ago i know why i didnt get them, because of these assholes, i am out of work for the past 4 months all because of them being spiteful and for what i dont know!!!!

Pat McGhee

OP, you should arrange a meeting with the owners, not the manager. Tell them what you've found out & if they don't do something about their waste of space manager, threaten legal action. Perhaps even threaten to go public on some radio talk show! You don't even have to mean that, but it should get some sort of reaction - the thought of bad publicity will not sit well with them & you can back up your allegations.

I would suggest they get the manager (or personally do it themselves) to call every interviewer who phoned looking for a reference & retract what was said.

rohe

Pat McGhee wrote: »

OP, you should arrange a meeting with the owners, not the manager. Tell them what you've found out & if they don't do something about their waste of space manager, threaten legal action. Perhaps even threaten to go public on some radio talk show! You don't even have to mean that, but it should get some sort of reaction - the thought of bad publicity will not sit well with them & you can back up your allegations.

I would suggest they get the manager (or personally do it themselves) to call every interviewer who phoned looking for a reference & retract what was said.

no point in doing this as the owner is also giving me a bad reference (i found out the other day through a friend, i got her to ring up)

i have taken them completely of my cv as references and if i am asked in a interview why they are not down as references i will come up with some excuse. all i can do now really is keep applying for jobs and hopefully something will comeup

Pat McGhee

rohe wrote: »

no point in doing this as the owner is also giving me a bad reference (i found out the other day through a friend, i got her to ring up)

i have taken them completely of my cv as references and if i am asked in a interview why they are not down as references i will come up with some excuse. all i can do now really is keep applying for jobs and hopefully something will comeup

LMAO!! Sorry but it sounds like the owner is a right aul doofus - perhap's he & the manager are getting jiggy!

Send them a solicitor's letter, that'll put a smile on their faces!!

rohe

lol wouldnt surprise me if they were

am definetly giving it some serious thought ( the solicotors letter)

Pat McGhee

rohe wrote: »

lol wouldnt surprise me if they were

am definetly giving it some serious thought ( the solicotors letter)

Eeewww..... That reminds me of my old boss & the company accountant. Both were married to other people but were getting it on, on a regular basis - xmas parties for example! BIG question mark over who was daddy to her 2nd child. He was the ugliest kid I've ever seen but neither of them were oil paintings either......

Anyhoo, you defo should not let the matter rest with the ex-employer & manager. Defamation, etc.... Nobody has the right to needlessly ruin your employment prospects. Y'never know, you could sue them for every cent their worth, buy out the company & have the manager reporting to you! Muahahaha...... See how she likes being on the end of your shoe.