New PC spec help

Drakar

I was looking at getting a new computer for games. I'm aiming to spend around 1300 or something (I have to get a monitor and vista in that). I tried speccing it on www.hardwareversand.de, but quickly discovered theres alot of stuff I don't know about :P (E6850 vs Q6600, ddr2 vs ddr3 performance, motherboard comparissons, performance improvment for 1300 bus etc). Even though its for games, I'd be interested in putting Vista on it as I can justify the cost to myself as "learning" *cough*. I'm on a wireless connection, I didn't see any wireless cards there but maybe I was in the wrong section.

How does something like the below look? I had to guess at some of the components. Is there much of a size difference between atx and matx? The motherboard sizes look only like 6cm smaller... Any help, advice or total redesign appreciated!


Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Tray 4096Kb, LGA775, 64bit, Conroe (some articles seemed to suggest this over the Q6600 as many applications arent able to take full advantage of the quad cores, the clock speed is higher yet cooler)
ready for dispatch 205,44 € 1
Arctic Freezer 7 Pro Sockel 775 (not sure about fan quality)
ready for dispatch 13,67 € 1
ASUS P5E3 Deluxe, Sockel 775, ATX, DDR3 (this is pretty expensive vs ddr2 boards, not sure if its worth it)
ready for dispatch from 2008-03-19 173,89 € 1
2GB-Kit Corsair Twin3X2048-1600C7 DDR3, CL7 (again quite expensive vs ddr2 memory)
available for order, delivery date on request 248,03 € 1
Xpertvision 8800GT, NVIDIA 8800GT, 512MB, PCI-Express (should I could look at SLI'd 9600s instead, I'm guessing they are noisier and hotter though)
ready for dispatch 169,62 € 1
Antec Sonata III, ATX, 500 Watt (had to guess at that)
ready for dispatch 98,06 € 1
Samsung SyncMaster 932MW (19" lcd)
ready for dispatch 249,11 € 1
MS Windows Vista home basic 32bit Englisch (shudder)
ready for dispatch 66,36 € 1
NEC Opti AD7200S bulk beige (random dvd drive selection)
ready for dispatch 30,77 € 1
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB 16MB SATA II ST3250410AS (random hd selection)
ready for dispatch 50,13 € 1

Sqaull20

Personally I'd never buy a dual core desktop at this point, Q6600 is the one most are opting for. Great overclockable cpu

I would build something like this, maybe adding an extra 8800gt down the line if needed...




My sister has that 19" monitor, its nice but has an awkward res for games ( 1440 x 900) fine for wathcing films and playing sims like she does, but I wouldnt fancy playing cod4 on it..

20" one is 1680 by 1050...

This a nice little usb wireless adaptor...

http://www3.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=7252&agid=207

sebastianlieken

nonononononoNO...forgewt the e6850, and forget the q6600.ffs.

get this dual core or higher clocked dual core (dual cores are PERFECT for gaming) if you really want to, get this quad core. but in general, higher clocked dual cores outperform n overclock better than quads. forget the e6850 n q6600 by this stage, there old news.

forget about that expensive mobo, and definatly forget about ddr3! id get a good x38 board. but looks like ur considering sli, so an 680i will do u perfectly.

(the hardwareversand.de website has jus gone down, will thro a rig together for ya in a minute when its back)


id seriously re-think ur selection, theres a few bad decisions in there. but sure ill throw up sumthin in a while

toco123

I did out two rigs around 1300... seems a lot but you seem to want to go all out!?
One is a 8800gt the other an SLI 9600GT (9600GTs in SLI is about 182% performance of one 9600gt and outperforms the 8800GT).


8800gt:
http://myrmidonprocess.com/imageupload/images/boards47deb6d4a4c61.jpg

SLI:
http://myrmidonprocess.com/imageupload/images/boards247deb64876be7.jpg

toco123

Its workin still.. im on it!!!?

E8400 and E8500 dont have a great selection of mobos yet...

sebastianlieken

sorry, twas a problem with my damn proxy!



thats what id go for anyway.

e8400, perfect for gaming. will last a good while.

antec nine hundred, v. good airflow, looks sweet. personal opinion here tho

seagate, 500gb with 32mb cashe. Very fast drive.

680i full sli mobo. ul still get a very daycent overclock even though the cpu is 1333mhz, and so is the mobo. brilliant mobo.

4gigs (may aswell) of pc8500 FAST ram.

two xfx 9600. (kick ass) or jus go for a single 8800gt, and sli that at a later date.

64bit OS for ur ram

high res good lookin 20" monitor

good quality psu to juice ur componants.

I realise a few of these are out of stock, id wait it out tho tbh

Sqaull20

sebastianlieken wrote: »

e8400, perfect for gaming. will last a good while.

I realise a few of these are out of stock, id wait it out tho tbh

Quad-core is useful for a lot of other things besides games - encoding and rendering are the two biggies. You can cut the time it takes to render or encode something in half vs. a dual-core if the program takes advantage of multiple CPUs.

Theere are several games out right now that will use a quad-core. Supreme Commander and also Unreal Tournament III are two. With much more in the future. That does not mean the end of dual-core though

Still I'd say early/ mid 2009, the programmers will start to optimize the games to benefit out of what quad core has to offer..

Its not as if you will be bottlenecked or see much a difference anyway by having a Quad @ 3.40ghz and Dual @ 4.20ghz...

Will the quad be utilized in the future?

I think so and then your faced with 2 x 4.20ghz, 4 x 3.20ghz,if it does

sebastianlieken

id still go for an 8400 or 8500. IMO (for the price being the same and performance wise),

e8500 @ 2*3.16 (€259) >>> Q9300 @ 4*2.5 (€249) (both have 6mb cashe) (and ur gonna get a considerably better OC from the dual)

in everyday use and running most current (and future) games, the higher clocks are gonna pay off more.

(sorry for going off topic...and slightly hijacking thread , but we are providing a service here!:D)

toco123

Heres some advice or definites to look out for IMHO:

Samsung Spinpoint 500GB (fastest HDD)
Samsung 206BW (Recommended Monitor)
Corsair Power Supply (Quality; suitable wattage)
Case without PSU (Usually cases come with cheap PSU)
Windows Vista Premium (2-3GB ~ 32bit; 4GB+ ~ 64bit)
RAM around or above 6400/800MHz

Here is some super quality RAM at excellent prices:

Geil 4GB DDR2 6400/800 CL5 Black Dragon
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250225521117&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:ie


Crucial Ballistix 2GB DDR2 8500/1066
http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-Crucial-Ballistix-2GB-PC2-8500-DDR2-1066-RAM-Memory_W0QQitemZ120232851629QQihZ002QQcategoryZ111425QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB DDR2 8500/1066
http://cgi.ebay.ie/Crucial-Ballistix-Tracer-2GB-PC2-8500-DDR2-1066-NEW_W0QQitemZ260220811235QQihZ016QQcategoryZ111425QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


You then have the Reapers on hardwareversand
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/3/articlesearch.jsp


But I think these will do:
http://www3.hardwareversand.de/3/articledetail.jsp?aid=7247&agid=599

At under €40 there a steal.


But I think you would be

sebastianlieken

toco123 wrote: »

Samsung Spinpoint 500GB (fastest HDD)

...eh????

but yeah ta the rest... cept ebay...evil site...:mad::mad:

toco123

sebastianlieken wrote: »

id still go for an 8400 or 8500. IMO (for the price being the same and performance wise),

e8500 @ 2*3.16 (€259) >>> Q9300 @ 4*2.5 (€249) (both have 6mb cashe) (and ur gonna get a considerably better OC from the dual)

in everyday use and running most current (and future) games, the higher clocks are gonna pay off more.

(sorry for going off topic...and slightly hijacking thread , but we are providing a service here!:D)

Look within a year games like Alan Wake will arrive, we'll be laughing, you'll be forking out. Valve is making all there new games quad core and a number of hungry apps at the moment use it
You are right to say that AT THIS TIME dual core is better for gaming, however the era of quad core is tomorrow.... or whenever the games arrive!

Its not offtopic yet IMO.. we're helping!

toco123

sebastianlieken wrote: »

...eh????

but yeah ta the rest... cept ebay...evil site...:mad::mad:

I'll be happy to take it back if you backup your point. Its of course not the "fastest" but in some tests the Spinpoint loads faster than a Raptor. IMO you can't beat that with a baseball bat especially being the cheapest available 500gb hard drive! I have heard one story however that he found thy were unreliable. I bought mine anyway. its in the post :D

toco123

For 1.328,61 € :

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 boxed, 12MB, LGA775, 64bit

Gigabyte GA-N750SLI-DS4, NVIDIA nForce750i, ATX, PCI-Express

2048MB-Kit OCZ DDR2 PC2-8500 Reaper HPC Edition, CL5

Thermaltake Soprano schwarz VB1000BWS ohne Netzteil

ATX-Netzteil Corsair TX650W 650 Watt

MSI NX8800GT-T2D512E-OC, NVIDIA 8800GT, 512MB, PCI-Express
MSI NX8800GT-T2D512E-OC, NVIDIA 8800GT, 512MB, PCI-Express [SLI]

Samsung HD501LJ 500GB 7200,16 MB Cache

Samsung SH-S203D bulk black

Samsung SyncMaster 206BW 20", DVI, 3000:1 Kontrast

MS Windows Vista home premium 32bit English



Thats one amazing spec!!

DirkVoodoo

I'd go SLI 8800GT off the bat, two cards from HV is cheaper than a 3870X2 and outperforms it in Crysis too.

Also agree with seb about the quad, not really gonna help you if you only want to game, higher clock speeds are more important.

toco123

I don't agree. Future proofing your CPU is more important. Games are heavier on your GPU anyway. Two GTs would outperform a GTX and two 9600gt's would outperform a 8800GT.. Finally SLI is working!!

RoyalMarine

forget the 9600gt. get an 2 3870's in crossfire

toco123

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

forget the 9600gt. get an 2 3870's in crossfire

WHY! Amuse me because I haven't heard a single good thing about those ever!!!


Here's three honest reviews:
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/605/1/
http://en.expreview.com/2007/11/26/hd-3870-crossfire-vs-8800gt-sli/
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=203346

None of them would make me rush out anyday soon to buy one

Sqaull20

toco123 wrote: »

WHY! Amuse me because I haven't heard a single good thing about those ever!!!

They can keep up with a 9600gt in sli, thats it ...

http://www.techspot.com/article/88-geforce-9600gt-versus-radeon-hd3870/page4.html

Considering the HD 3870 are still €170, its no contest...

Sqaull20

I would go with toco's build and changing the ram to 4gb of pc 6400..

Dont see the point in spending big in 780i mobo...

You get PCI-e 2.0 and tri SLI capability, but really I don't see that as any benefit for the 9600gt's/8800gt's

Matter of fact comparing 8x/8x sli vs 16x/16x sli, you don't see a performance difference with dual 8800GTX even.

http://www.techspot.com/review/45-nv...sli/page4.html

Its a great option considering the price for a pair of those cards vs the performance. They are the only SLI configuration that makes total sense to me.

RoyalMarine

toco123 wrote: »

WHY! Amuse me because I haven't heard a single good thing about those ever!!!

right so the 8800gt sli is better than the 9600gt sli.. thats understandable.
what about this?


reviews are people's personal opinion.

when it comes to facts, thats all there is.

Not to mention, with crossfire your not limited to a poor nvidia chipset. If you overclock like most of us do, the 3870's in crossfire will be the biggest performer.

toco123

Jeez when they say AA and AF suck on ATIs, they really mean it!!


Supposed thats what it depends on. Will Drakar be using AA or AF?



This does mean we can pick a non ****ty board for it too as RMC said.
Either way they're is not much in it!

toco123

For 1307.09

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 boxed, 12MB, LGA775, 64bit

ASUS P5K-E/Wifi AP, Sockel 775, ATX

4096MB-Kit OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 Reaper, CL4

Thermaltake Soprano schwarz VB1000BWS ohne Netzteil

ATX-Netzteil Corsair TX650w 650 Watt

Sapphire Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4, PCI-Express
Sapphire Radeon HD 3870 512MB GDDR4, PCI-Express [In CF]

Samsung HD501LJ 500GB 7200,16 MB Cache

Samsung SH-S203D bulk schwarz

Samsung SyncMaster 206BW 20", DVI, 3000:1

MS Windows Vista home premium 64-bit English


That has fast enough RAM and enough of it to feed China, super gaming performance, Wifi inbuilt onto Mobo, and onene of the high end quad cores!

By the way these are all performance parts so if your not overclocking think about dropping RAM to something more reasonable like XMS2s


Now at least pretend to me thats the one your going to buy!

Drakar

Thanks for all the help, definately couldn't have sorted between those myself!

I think any overclocking I'd be doing would be in the dabbling category rather than fully fledged eek out the last mhz type hehe.
Regarding 64 bit vista, I know you need this to get access to the full 4gb ram. Articles like this though were scaring me off (that one is a bit old, but there are others, maybe problems with drivers and software are pretty much the same between 32 and 64 bit vista though at this stage? Anyone have experience with 64 bit vista with up to date hardware? Maybe the problems posed by using vista are common enough between 64 and 32 bit versions at this point).

x keo21

first off about 64 bit vista, if toca has done his homework the hardware (drivers) he has selected is all vista 64 bit compatible ?
Secondly you will need to consider what kind of software you will be running, do your research on this. if you find compatibility problems obviously go for 32 bit if you don't go for 32 bit, imo
(I am basing that on what i think will benefit you as an 'OK' pc user) There is no shame in going for 32 bit, don't get in over your head for a little bit better performance if you are a moderate pc user.

but GL in whatever choice you make

toco123

64 bit Vista is no longer a problem.Most of the problems have been resolved and revised. Note that article dates back to Jun 12, 2006 and was updated in June 2007.. Its a thing of the past! Vista SP1 is out now anyway as well.

You've aslways got the option to buy 3GB of RAM [1x2GB;1x1GB]... but be prepared to see 2.5GB

Macspower

I bought an excellent spec off them reciently and it will play all the latest games etc...

a wireless card is available but you have to mail them and they will add it to your order... for some reason they didn't install it they just put it in the box

toco123

The ASUS P5K-E/Wifi AP has wifi integrated?!?

Drakar

Looks like 3 of the parts are out of stock, so I'll check into them later.

How did you get the 2nd graphics card? The basket system seemed to only like me buying one, does it have to be added to the order afterwards?

As regards the vista versions, looks like the licence is common across both, so one could always switch back to 32bit if a guy had like 8hrs to reinstall hehe.

toco123

Draker.. I think you have to add after with crossfire or 3 way SLI but will someone confirm that 2 3870s are compatible with the P5KE because I have no knowledge of crossfire.. Personally I think it is!!

Oh dude. Order them wheter they're out of stock or not.. They hold the other parts untill they do come in and send them straight out. One or two parts are usually OoS anyway!

RoyalMarine

i love being right

lol. do you honestly need a pc that powerful??

ive got a qx6700, striker 680i, 4gb mushkin ram and 1 8800gt.
none overclocked but reaches 12,800 on 3dmark06.

im overclocking it by about 20% and im sure it will reach at least 15,000.
adding another 8800gt in a few weeks.

other than crysis at 100% i cant find anything that makes it hiccup.

toco123

Well if 1300 if your budget stick to it... but I think you would do well with just a

Q6600
AC Freezer 7 Pro
NZXT Alpha
2GB Corsair XMS2 800mhz
Ga-P31-Ds3l
8800GT 512MB
Corsair 550w


Does grand.. good bit cheaper too

Sqaull20

toco123 wrote: »

Well if 1300 if your budget stick to it... but I think you would do well with just a

Q6600
AC Freezer 7 Pro
NZXT Alpha
2GB Corsair XMS2 800mhz
Ga-P31-Ds3l
8800GT 512MB
Corsair 550w

Does grand.. good bit cheaper too

Sli board is a must for a gamer imo...

Gigabyte GA-N650SLI-DS4L is a fine board for €70

toco123

Sqaull20 wrote: »

Sli board is a must for a gamer imo...

Gigabyte GA-N650SLI-DS4L is a fine board for €70

i dont think so at all!!!

Ga-P35-DS3L equals major overclocking and better performance! Most of the time one good card is better than two except for the obvious exception of two 9600GTs over 8800GT and two 8800GT over 8800GTX due to there different families. 9800GTX should be the next best single card!

Sqaull20

toco123 wrote: »

i dont think so at all!!!

Ga-P35-DS3L equals major overclocking and better performance! Most of the time one good card is better than two except for the obvious exception of two 9600GTs over 8800GT and two 8800GT over 8800GTX due to there different families. 9800GTX should be the next best single card!

9800gtx will cost minimum €300 imo and 2 9600gt's will smoke it...

The sli board above is a very good overclocker too and looking at how well Sli is doing with all the main stream games its a must...

You can get 2 8800gts's for €450, 33% cheaper than the 9800gx2 and it beats it a stock speed, never mind when you overclock them...



http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA_nForce_790i_SLI_Ultra_and_GeForce_9800_GX2/?page=19

Sqaull20

toco123 wrote: »

Look within a year games like Alan Wake will arrive, we'll be laughing, you'll be forking out. Valve is making all there new games quad core and a number of hungry apps at the moment use it
You are right to say that AT THIS TIME dual core is better for gaming, however the era of quad core is tomorrow.... or whenever the games arrive!

Its not offtopic yet IMO.. we're helping!

Yep

You just can't fault someone for choosing a Q6600 for gaming, especially given high e8400 markups. It's excellent now for games and may just prove to be far better than the e8400 someday.

Neither will be great then I agree, but, the FX-55 beat the X2 4800+ at release in most games, but who would rather have the X2 4800+ or even 4200+ now verses a killer single core?

toco123

Sqaull20 wrote: »

9800gtx will cost minimum €300 imo and 2 9600gt's will smoke it...

The sli board above is a very good overclocker too and looking at how well Sli is doing with all the main stream games its a must...

You can get 2 8800gts's for €450, 33% cheaper than the 9800gx2 and it beats it a stock speed, never mind when you overclock them...



http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA_nForce_790i_SLI_Ultra_and_GeForce_9800_GX2/?page=19

But the 9800GX2 IS a 2 core GPU!!! I don't count that as a single GPU.. they're hasn't been an good 2 core GPUs yet