peculiar negotiator

gordon_gekko

i accepted a deposit from a guy last wk for a car , he came to my house with a mate , drove it and we hammered out a price , he then gave me a grand in cash of a deposit and told me he would have the remainder in a wk , i said thats fine as he seemed like a really decent skin

he came back today and had another mate with him ( a mechanic and a real skanger) who started scrutinising the car and asking me all sorts of questions about it and pointing out problems with the car which i would have to knock off a bit for
i took it for a while but eventually told the owner that if his mate didnt shag off back home , i would scrap the deal and give him back his deposit just so i could avoid any future hassle with potential dodgy people

the buyer was all appologies and we concluded the deal as agreed , it was bizzare , while the buyer was a ok , his mate seemed to be renegotiating on behalf of the buyer
when i showed that i wasnt buying his kind of bull**** , the owner i think quickly realised that i wasnt going to drop price just because his so called buddy mechanic pointed out a few faults ( faults i might add that while minimum were there the 1st day for all to see

i have my cash now but for the life of me i dont understand what the whole thing was about
i think perhaps the buyer,s buddy was an obnoxious gitt who needs to drop his act as a would be con artist , he aint very good at it

Seth Brundle

I presume they were hoping you would quickly cave in and drop the price!

kindalen

had a similar experience a few years ago when selling a polo,did deal and accepted deposit. a skanger arrived a few days later, looked at car.....as if it was a race car...told me it wasnt worth agreed price. gave him deposit back and told him to take a hike. real slimebag.

javaboy

No harm in it really. You can imagine the mechanic friend was just trying to do a favour for his mate by getting a few quid knocked off. Fair play to you for sticking to your guns on it and getting the agreed original price.

Does anyone know what the story is legally with deposits in a private sale? Obviously if the buyer is never heard from again you keep the money because of the inconvenience of turning away buyers in the mean time. But what if the buyer in the OP's case agreed with his mechanic friend and wouldn't pay the original price? Would the OP be entitled legally to keep some/all of the deposit? I'm assuming nothing was written down so possession being 9 10ths of the law might be the overriding factor.

S.I.R

i generally dont bring mechanics when buying bangers to fix or anything like that and i hate going to help people buy cars because of hastle like this. Buyers generally have there heads lodged up there bums when it comes to car dealing and the seller themselfs are about as useful as big breast on a nun because you know there ripping you off but you have to be polite and gently point out the major issues but as soon as you do that , tempers flare and someone ends up flying through a windscreen....

getting back on topic-

the best thing you can do is hold out for a buyer who will enjoy the car who will give it the treatment it deserves rather then running it into the ground as many a persons do ( everyone knows atleast 20 ), any joe bloggs can buy a car but when selling your banger , be sure to get the buyer who lkes/loves the perticular model of lada that you own.... rather then chucking it on carzone.ie and waiting to be abused.

my 2p....

gordon_gekko

javaboy wrote: »

No harm in it really. You can imagine the mechanic friend was just trying to do a favour for his mate by getting a few quid knocked off. Fair play to you for sticking to your guns on it and getting the agreed original price.

Does anyone know what the story is legally with deposits in a private sale? Obviously if the buyer is never heard from again you keep the money because of the inconvenience of turning away buyers in the mean time. But what if the buyer in the OP's case agreed with his mechanic friend and wouldn't pay the original price? Would the OP be entitled legally to keep some/all of the deposit? I'm assuming nothing was written down so possession being 9 10ths of the law might be the overriding factor.

its called rules of engagement , you dont start renegotiating a price when youve already shook hands , agreed on a price and handed over a deposit

only im presently recovering from a serious injury , the 2 bit skanger would have been picking up his teeth with broken fingers

the last bit i took from a movie so dont assume im a maimer

Anan1

OP - Whilst I agree with you in principle, I don't understand why you're blaming this on the buyer's friend. Surely your issue was with the buyer himself?

niceirishfella

You see - the country is full of these ****.
I've had them come to the house too. And I've not budged when the BS starts coming - and simply told them to seek a car elsewhere if they are not happy. You did right.....fair play.

NUTLEY BOY

kindalen wrote: »

had a similar experience a few years ago when selling a polo,did deal and accepted deposit. a skanger arrived a few days later, looked at car.....as if it was a race car...told me it wasnt worth agreed price. gave him deposit back and told him to take a hike. real slimebag.

You should have told him that the money he paid was a non-refundable booking fee, not a deposit, and that he should therefore complete the contract or rev up and !*&% off....:)

This is a variation on a popular property market con. The prospective purchaser agrees a price with the vendor and comes back just before the sale is due to be closed and says that his own house sale has fallen through and he can only offer 5% less than three weeks ago. At this stage the vendor s&*&s himself and takes the lesser figure to avoid trouble for himself.

BeardyGit

I help people buy cars second-hand all the time - Maybe something like 10-15 times a year. Each and every time I look at a car, I haggle a big discount, and if not I'll walk and take the buyer with me. Sometimes I'm asked to look at a car when the prospective buyer has already
had a quick look themselves, agreed a price in principle (yeah right), and just wants a second opinion before completing the sale. If I go have a look-see and find the price to be too high for my liking, I'll try to negotiate a better deal, deposit down or not. If the seller's not budging on price, I walk. That's how it works....NOTHING is worth as much as the person selling it thinks it is worth.

To be honest, I've had more hassle dealing with private sellers than traders/dealers. More often than not the private seller has absolutely no idea what their car is really worth, preferring to go with a high end Carzone price instead of being realistic about what they're punting. At least with a dealer you know you can broker a fair deal for both. A dealer will try to make the most profit on a sale for sure, but when all's said and done, he'll have to be honest with himself about the real value of what he's selling or he'll go out of business in the secondhand car market.

Private sellers on the other hand usually just get pished and annoyed when you point out how far off they are with their cars valuation.... I don't know you O.P., but there's a chance you just embarassed the buyer into paying more than your car was actually worth....At least more than it would be worth to any of my buyers. Nothing personal in that, but it's a possibility. The 'scumbag' mechanic may have simply been more tuned into the problems and true value of your car, and let's face it, there's absolutely no way you'd have liked that guy anyway - He was trying to cut your take, wasn't he?

Well done anyway with the sale, what's the next set of wheels?

Gil

Zambia

Its a common ploy from idiots , its happens in houses too

Basically they get you to agree the sale and give you a deposit . You then plan to buy a car or garden or whatever you are going to do with the cash.

They then come up with some spanner in the works to get you to drop the price in the hope you are commited on your end and will just take the cash.

In property its called gazumping. In life its called being a w&nker. If you shake on a deal its a deal. Unless something changes.

If the bloke wanted his mech to inspect the car , well he should not have shuk(?) on it till he did.

Fair play you did the right thing however some people would have had to drop the price in the fear of losing the sale.

Senna

i really dont understand why a buyer would agree a price, pay a deposit, then take a mechanic to see the car. If you need a mechanic or friend to verify the car is ok, then why would you agree a price beforehand??
i'd say this is only dont by chancres, looking to screw you over.
I'd have none of it, tell them to feck off if they aren't happy.

green123

S.I.R wrote: »

the best thing you can do is hold out for a buyer who will enjoy the car who will give it the treatment it deserves rather then running it into the ground as many a persons do ( everyone knows atleast 20 ), any joe bloggs can buy a car but when selling your banger , be sure to get the buyer who lkes/loves the perticular model of lada that you own.... rather then chucking it on carzone.ie and waiting to be abused.

my 2p....

i cant understand this.
why would you care what they do with it ?

as long as as get the cash i wouldnt give a ****

gordon_gekko

Gil_Dub wrote: »

I help people buy cars second-hand all the time - Maybe something like 10-15 times a year. Each and every time I look at a car, I haggle a big discount, and if not I'll walk and take the buyer with me. Sometimes I'm asked to look at a car when the prospective buyer has already
had a quick look themselves, agreed a price in principle (yeah right), and just wants a second opinion before completing the sale. If I go have a look-see and find the price to be too high for my liking, I'll try to negotiate a better deal, deposit down or not. If the seller's not budging on price, I walk. That's how it works....NOTHING is worth as much as the person selling it thinks it is worth.

To be honest, I've had more hassle dealing with private sellers than traders/dealers. More often than not the private seller has absolutely no idea what their car is really worth, preferring to go with a high end Carzone price instead of being realistic about what they're punting. At least with a dealer you know you can broker a fair deal for both. A dealer will try to make the most profit on a sale for sure, but when all's said and done, he'll have to be honest with himself about the real value of what he's selling or he'll go out of business in the secondhand car market.

Private sellers on the other hand usually just get pished and annoyed when you point out how far off they are with their cars valuation.... I don't know you O.P., but there's a chance you just embarassed the buyer into paying more than your car was actually worth....At least more than it would be worth to any of my buyers. Nothing personal in that, but it's a possibility. The 'scumbag' mechanic may have simply been more tuned into the problems and true value of your car, and let's face it, there's absolutely no way you'd have liked that guy anyway - He was trying to cut your take, wasn't he?

Well done anyway with the sale, what's the next set of wheels?

Gil

so baschially what your saying is that shaking hands on an agreed price means jack **** to you

niceirishfella

+1.


Gil Dub,

I hope sometime you show up at my house with one of your "clients" who did a deal with me on a vehicle previously - cos you'd experience me telling you to FOOK off and your "Client" would loose their Deposit as its a "Non Refundable Booking Fee" paid earlier.:D

BeardyGit

You're missing the point lads. If someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow agrees a price, and then sees sense and gets someone to come check what they're about to buy, you can't really hold it against them. Not if you're being a resonable and fair sod. But if you think a spit and a handshake is the sealing of the deal, you're wrong. Simple as.

In fairness to you Gordon, paying a deposit is a different thing, and it would wind me up a fair bit to be on the receiving end of that. I don't see how a seller would respond positively to that sort of thing. But if no deposit's been paid, it's all fair as far as I'm concerned to try getting the lowest price as a buyer....There'd be nothing personal in it. But again, I can see where you're coming from and I think I'd feel the same if I was in your situation.

NiceIrishFella on the other hand appears to be just the kind of seller I'm talking about....A man who'd value his cars and his opinion at higher than their actual worth. Non-refundable booking deposit my arse. :rolleyes:

niceirishfella

Gil_Dub wrote: »

You're missing the point lads. If someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow agrees a price, and then sees sense and gets someone to come check what they're about to buy, you can't really hold it against them. Not if you're being a resonable and fair sod. But if you think a spit and a handshake is the sealing of the deal, you're wrong. Simple as.

In fairness to you Gordon, paying a deposit is a different thing, and it would wind me up a fair bit to be on the receiving end of that. I don't see how a seller would respond positively to that sort of thing. But if no deposit's been paid, it's all fair as far as I'm concerned to try getting the lowest price as a buyer....There'd be nothing personal in it. But again, I can see where you're coming from and I think I'd feel the same if I was in your situation.

NiceIrishFella on the other hand appears to be just the kind of seller I'm talking about....A man who'd value his cars and his opinion at higher than their actual worth. Non-refundable booking deposit my arse. :rolleyes:

GilDub, what you're talking is pure undiluted "rubbish".
When someone comes to view a car and does a deal - thats it - its done and the price does not lower in my eyes even after bringing out a second party to give advice on a second viewing. As i said, the country is full of **** - And I know how to deal with them.

edit: post like your username implies!

Par72

Why would you take a deposit anyway? I wouldn't take the car off the market until the full amount had been paid and cleared.

gordon_gekko

Gil_Dub wrote: »

You're missing the point lads. If someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow agrees a price, and then sees sense and gets someone to come check what they're about to buy, you can't really hold it against them. Not if you're being a resonable and fair sod. But if you think a spit and a handshake is the sealing of the deal, you're wrong. Simple as.

In fairness to you Gordon, paying a deposit is a different thing, and it would wind me up a fair bit to be on the receiving end of that. I don't see how a seller would respond positively to that sort of thing. But if no deposit's been paid, it's all fair as far as I'm concerned to try getting the lowest price as a buyer....There'd be nothing personal in it. But again, I can see where you're coming from and I think I'd feel the same if I was in your situation.

NiceIrishFella on the other hand appears to be just the kind of seller I'm talking about....A man who'd value his cars and his opinion at higher than their actual worth. Non-refundable booking deposit my arse. :rolleyes:

while i was talking about apples , you were talking about oranges

i recieved a deposit a week before the guy brought a mechanic with him

id have no problem a guy looking at a car on monday , then coming back the following monday and brining a mechanic with him who then proceeded to point out the flaws in the vechile
as long as no deposits had been paid , my car was fair game

whats not ok is to try and renegotiate after a deal has been struck the previous week

its just not CRICKET

BeardyGit

niceirishfella wrote: »

GilDub, what you're talking is pure undiluted "rubbish".
When someone comes to view a car and does a deal - thats it - its done and the price does not lower in my eyes even after bringing out a second party to give advice on a second viewing. As i said, the country is full of **** - And I know how to deal with them.

edit: post like your username implies!

Sorry to disagree with you there, but the deal ain't done until the money (all of it) has been handed over and the VRC's signed and on its way to Shannon. You're coming across as one of those very same people you say the country's full of, mate.

Gordon, yeah - Apples and Oranges. I agree. No quarrel there Sorry for drifting a bit there. You're right, it's simply not cricket as you say.

unkel

When a price is agreed and you've shaken hands, the deal is done. But that's just my (moral) opinion. Legally it is only a deal when:

Gil_Dub wrote: »

the money (all of it) has been handed over and the VRC's signed and on its way to Shannon.

Churchy

I have bought and sold a fair amount of cars.

If someone has agreed a price , shaken hands and paid a deposit the deal is done. I wont sell it to someone else and dont expect them to pull out either.

Theres a word for people like you who try to "renegotiate" after the fact but I cant mention it here due to political correctness.

Pressuring ladies and old men might work and I hope you get a good living out of it.

BeardyGit

Churchy wrote: »

I have bought and sold a fair amount of cars.

If someone has agreed a price , shaken hands and paid a deposit the deal is done. I wont sell it to someone else and dont expect them to pull out either.

Theres a word for people like you who try to "renegotiate" after the fact but I cant mention it here due to political correctness.

Pressuring ladies and old men might work and I hope you get a good living out of it.

I hope you're not referring to me there, as you'd be well mistaken. If you are, take the time to actually read the full thread and my posts therein and you'll find you're addressing your frustrations at the wrong audience.

Mind you don't fall off that rather overladen band-wagon there Churcy :rolleyes:

OP, well done on the sale, as I've said before.

I'm off - There's a bit too much muppetry going on here. I'll put it down to hormones or something.

Gil

niceirishfella

Gil_Dub wrote: »

Sorry to disagree with you there, but the deal ain't done until the money (all of it) has been handed over and the VRC's signed and on its way to Shannon. You're coming across as one of those very same people you say the country's full of, mate.

Gordon, yeah - Apples and Oranges. I agree. No quarrel there Sorry for drifting a bit there. You're right, it's simply not cricket as you say.

Gil_Bub,

1. i'm not your mate.
2. You have not impressed anyone here with your "Rubbish" (you liking that Kbannon?, i did'nt type Boll*x there eventhough what this guy talks here is the same stuff)
3. I deem the deal done on a handshake, IS DONE FULLSTOP - in my moral opinion alos as that of most right minded people who frequent this board .
4. I'm glad your off and there no muppets here....only the ones who go around with people trying to screw money off deals already done.....and ohhhhh, don't forget your handbag!:p

cpoh1

I actually agree with everything Gil_Dub is saying. While it seems a bit silly for a guy to hand over a deposit and then look for another opinion on a car, if after that second opinion (and coming from a guy who knows his stuff) things show up that the buyer was previously unaware of he's entitled to renogitiate a price. Ive been in that situation before selloing cars where it turns out a rear bush might be cracking or cv boot split ill happily knock a little off the price if the buyer is an honest and decent chap.

I would say that even after a deposit was made and the car was subsequently found to have previously unseen defects after a professional inspection the buyer would be more than entitled to his deposit back.

BeardyGit

Here's a little bedtime story for you NiceIrishFella,

A woman I work with asked me to have a look at a car for her that was for sale in a local second-hand dealers forecourt around August or September last year. It sounded like a good deal, all in order with a new NCT passed a couple of weeks beforehand and a valet promised before sale. I had a quick look on Carzone at the ad and had a chat to make sure the car was going to be up to the job for her. She's from a country where the car in question wasn't available. She had haggled a price for the car herself and put €100 cash down as a deposit 'to hold it for you', but wanted a second opinion before handing over a draft for the €3400 balance the next evening.

The car had passed the NCT a few weeks back alright, with a set of wheels from another of the same model car that was to be seen sitting on his forecourt. No other way it could have as the back tyres were badly worn and would definately have failed on a visual. A telltale black sooty mark on the underside of the boot floor led to a gum-gun patch on a cracked weld on the back box too. I reckoned about €250 all in would sort those two, but even then you couldn't trust there weren't other untold problems.

The cheeky runt tried to argue that new tyres weren't included in the agreed sale price, but that he'd do them at cost for us. My arse he would. He point blank refused to acknowledge the recent bodge on the back-box too. The ad had been on Carzone about 8 weeks, so I'm certain they'd done the fiddling to get it through, and hoped a buyer would just take it away. Not so. Buyer beware and all that...and I was aware. Yet you'd argue the toss on this, would you?

Are you seriously telling me that the deal was done when she put the money down for the deposit? You are me arse. :rolleyes:

Gil

niceirishfella

cpoh1 wrote: »

I actually agree with everything Gil_Dub is saying. While it seems a bit silly for a guy to hand over a deposit and then look for another opinion on a car, if after that second opinion (and coming from a guy who knows his stuff) things show up that the buyer was previously unaware of he's entitled to renogitiate a price. Ive been in that situation before selloing cars where it turns out a rear bush might be cracking or cv boot split ill happily knock a little off the price if the buyer is an honest and decent chap.

I would say that even after a deposit was made and the car was subsequently found to have previously unseen defects after a professional inspection the buyer would be more than entitled to his deposit back.

Gil_Dub, I see your point on the above scenario- and its cool. No hassles.
But, Its the way you seek to get money off cars in deals that i dont agree on.....

Would it not make sense to have the 2nd opinion person with the buyer when they go to view a car the FIRST time? Not the second - THEN, and ONLY then - should a deal be done when the 2nd opinion person has approved the purchase.

I have been asked to go and see cars/jeeps/trucks hundreds of time - alot of the time I have been paid for and never, NEVER, NEVER have i gone to see a car that a deal has been done on. I will sit down with the buyer, we will have a council of war as i call it - set a agreed budget, make, model, engine type etc, maybe colour etc......I'll make the initial call and ask all the right qualified probing questions and make any first appointments - and go and view and approve and DO A DEAL if requested. This is the right and proper way to operate for everyone.

irish_bob

cpoh1 wrote: »

I actually agree with everything Gil_Dub is saying. While it seems a bit silly for a guy to hand over a deposit and then look for another opinion on a car, if after that second opinion (and coming from a guy who knows his stuff) things show up that the buyer was previously unaware of he's entitled to renogitiate a price. Ive been in that situation before selloing cars where it turns out a rear bush might be cracking or cv boot split ill happily knock a little off the price if the buyer is an honest and decent chap.

I would say that even after a deposit was made and the car was subsequently found to have previously unseen defects after a professional inspection the buyer would be more than entitled to his deposit back.

i disagree with you

gil dub , i agree with you that only when a deposit has been paid should the deal be in concrete , its ok to come back a 2nd time as long as no price has been agreed

alias no.9

By agreeing a price, both parties are entering into a contract and both have responsibilities to each other. The buyer must come up with the agreed sum within whatever time they agree, or within a reasonable time if none is specified, and the seller must take the car off the market, hold it for the buyer and ensure that it remains in the same condition as when the buyer viewed it. Despite the old adage about verbal contracts, they are enforceable. Coming back a week later trying to renegotiate is a breach of contract. The payment of a deposit further reinforces the contract.
I've sold a few cars privately, two of my own and one for my brother who’d moved overseas. I always insist on a small deposit (~€100) if the buyer doesn't have the funds there and then (in one case, bizarrely they had the cash, but it was a second viewing). If there was to be a dispute in any of the cases, my holding of the deposit would be ample evidence of our contract.
Having said all that, I described all cars honestly and priced them realistically. This is probably best illustrated by the fact that each time, the first person that viewed the particular car bought it and two of the three cars were bought and paid for within a week of being advertised.

Steve

alias no.9 wrote: »

By agreeing a price, both parties are entering into a contract and both have responsibilities to each other.The buyer must come up with the agreed sum within whatever time they agree, or within a reasonable time if none is specified, and the seller must take the car off the market, hold it for the buyer and ensure that it remains in the same condition as when the buyer viewed it. Despite the old adage about verbal contracts, they are enforceable. Coming back a week later trying to renegotiate is a breach of contract. The payment of a deposit further reinforces the contract.

Not quite correct, legally the contract only exists once an agreement is made and a sum has been exchanged. Could be €0.10, doesn't matter as long as its an exchange of money.
Once a deposit is payed, the buyer can whinge and moan all they like but their only options are to pay the amount agreed or to walk away and lose the deposit.
Conversely, the seller cannot accept any other offer on the car after once he has accepted the deposit.