Quick question on timber decking

masseyno9

I'm currently in the process of replacing the decking we have in the back garden. Frame etc is still there so thats no problem, i'm just laying a new deck. Should I be screwing or nailing the planks down? I remember being told about this before, one was better than the other as regards expansion and contraction of the planks, but can't remember which.
Cheers.

the GALL

screw everything

gsxr1

I have nailed planks down 7 years ago . Ring shank paslode nails wont ever move. Test them with a nailbar and 2 bits of wood if you want proof.

Screw look better though. But depending on the size of your deck, screwing will take a long time to complete. Plus deck screw cost a lot more.


Nail it.

the GALL

and for what ever reason you need to get under your deck
make sure you nail it good and tight so when the board has to come up you butcher it good with your trusty nail bar and have to replace it with a new board that won't have weathered the same:rolleyes::rolleyes:
screw it...... for the sake of €12 euro for 200 deck screws think of the saving your making id say all of €4:rolleyes::rolleyes:

CJhaughey

If I was doing it again, the only thing I would change would be to use torx head decking screws, they are a lot more positive in the driving action.
I used green coated decking screws and they seem to last very well, but if you are putting in 70mm x 5 screws that only have posi-drive heads you tend to get a lot of cam outs and the heads get damaged, you don't get that with Torx.

masseyno9

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll go ahead and screw them down.
CJhaughey, I presume any decent homebase type store would have torx screws?

MayoForSam

Drill pilot holes, will take longer but the screw heads won't get damaged.

CJhaughey

Not sure if Homebase sell them, I saw them in a local Arro store in a square plastic tub with a T20 bit included.

gsxr1

the GALL wrote: »

and for what ever reason you need to get under your deck
make sure you nail it good and tight so when the board has to come up you butcher it good with your trusty nail bar and have to replace it with a new board that won't have weathered the same:rolleyes::rolleyes:
screw it...... for the sake of €12 euro for 200 deck screws think of the saving your making id say all of €4:rolleyes::rolleyes:

and A fulls days work screwing and drilling.


to 1 hour with a paslode.

Depend on how much time you have.

And if you do a good enough job on the framing so you never need to lift a board with your trusty nailbar. :rolleyes::rolleyes:



I never said nailing was better. Just a whole lot easier.

the GALL

gsxr1 wrote: »

and A fulls days work screwing and drilling.


to 1 hour with a paslode.

Depend on how much time you have.

And if you do a good enough job on the framing so you never need to lift a board with your trusty nailbar. :rolleyes::rolleyes:



I never said nailing was better. Just a whole lot easier.

You never said nailing was easier, but you did imply it was better.
The chap(op) asked for an opion on the different ways to fix a deck, and by this you must realise that he/she is a v.novice DIYer.
What would someone with his/her basic skills be doing with a nail gun? and why would you advice someone who would have none if any experience with a gun to go around nailing stuff.....your a builder by trade? If you had a lad on one of your site's with no experience with nail gun's would you let them at it?....you would,shame on you sir.

blindman

CJhaughey wrote: »

if you are putting in 70mm x 5 screws that only have posi-drive heads you tend to get a lot of cam outs and the heads get damaged, you don't get that with Torx.

CJhaughey wrote: »

in a square plastic tub with a T20 bit included.

You got on well with the torx screws because you used the right bit. If you use the right posidrive bit you wont damage the screwheads. I definitly know which I'd rather be removing in a few years time.

DublinDilbert

CJhaughey wrote: »

If I was doing it again, the only thing I would change would be to use torx head decking screws, they are a lot more positive in the driving action.
I used green coated decking screws and they seem to last very well, but if you are putting in 70mm x 5 screws that only have posi-drive heads you tend to get a lot of cam outs and the heads get damaged, you don't get that with Torx.

Surely some good aul Robertson screws would do the job? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screwdriver

Robertsons are a great invention ( thank you Canada ), the best part is there is only 3 sizes of screw driver required, small, medium and large, how simple can it get... that's what wrecks my head about philips screws, most people don't have a clue of the correct size driver to use hence destroy the screw head.

blackbox

I've used those Robertson screws - I didn't realise what they were called. they were very good to use and well galvanised - came with a bit in the box that you could put in standard electric screwdriver.

CJhaughey

blindman wrote: »

You got on well with the torx screws because you used the right bit. If you use the right posidrive bit you wont damage the screwheads. I definitly know which I'd rather be removing in a few years time.

Are implying that I used the wrong size bit? PZ2 is standard on most decking screws, Rare to find PZ3, but I have them all and the correct bit was used.
And I did not use Philips PH2
Torx is a better more positive action the drive walls on a torx head are aligned vertically and this alone stops the drive bit cam out.
I am not sure what you are trying to say? That Pozi are superior to Torzx heads? I would disagree with this, having driven 10s of thousands of all types of screws from Philips to Pozi to Torx and others the best and most readily accessible screws I have used yet have been the Torx head
Torx T20 fasteners can take up to 8nm of torque, #2 Philips 5.5nm Pozi probably a little more but definately not the same as Torx.

DublinDilbert

Robertson are great screws and I would have used them IF i could get them in a green outdoor finish near me, unfortunately the local shop only stocked the Pozi headed decking screws at the time, I have since seen the Torx headed ones but thats it, no Robertson near me I am afraid.
I do have a Senco screwgun that has Robertson Bits but have never used them.

gsxr1

the GALL wrote: »

You never said nailing was easier, but you did imply it was better.
The chap(op) asked for an opion on the different ways to fix a deck, and by this you must realise that he/she is a v.novice DIYer.
What would someone with his/her basic skills be doing with a nail gun? and why would you advice someone who would have none if any experience with a gun to go around nailing stuff.....your a builder by trade? If you had a lad on one of your site's with no experience with nail gun's would you let them at it?....you would,shame on you sir.

he ask about expansion and contraction issues. And which fixing would prevent lifting

One can rent a nail gun .( not a machine gun) .

shame on me for suggesting a nail gun??

You can buy the things in LIDL I hear. Why should a DIYer not have one?

the GALL

gsxr1 wrote: »

he ask about expansion and contraction issues. And which fixing would prevent lifting

One can rent a nail gun .( not a machine gun) .

shame on me for suggesting a nail gun??

You can buy the things in LIDL I hear. Why should a DIYer not have one?

Op, Screw it.
go down to the hard wear and price the screw's then go to the plant hire and price the nail gun(not a machine gun) plus the nail's,
then go to lidl and price a nail gun then find somewhere to store the nail gun that you'll use every second weekend end to off set the outlay. Plus any expences such as doctor's bill's for when you stick yourself to new deck.:rolleyes:
op, your a novice looking for advice it only looks easy when pro's do it.

masseyno9

Ok, to clear up a few issues. I'm not exactly a novice, I've worked on building sites for the past 3 summers, so know my way around a job. I've done everything from dig holes to framing to mixing concrete. I'm a student doing a favour for my mother, and don't have many tools (always used whatever tools the boss gave me, including nail guns!).

The op was due to a vague memory of someone once telling me nailing was better as regards to expansion and contraction issues, but most decks i've seen were screwed, and thought people here might be able to clear it up.

the GALL, I'm not going to stick myself to the deck, I do know how to use tools. Just because someone asks a question you know the answer to doesn't make them a novice. Thanks for your condascending tone though.

gsxr1

the GALL wrote: »

Op, Screw it.
go down to the hard wear and price the screw's then go to the plant hire and price the nail gun(not a machine gun) plus the nail's,
then go to lidl and price a nail gun then find somewhere to store the nail gun that you'll use every second weekend end to off set the outlay. Plus any expences such as doctor's bill's for when you stick yourself to new deck.:rolleyes:
op, your a novice looking for advice it only looks easy when pro's do it.

we could argue all day about this;) lol.

But I must add something else.

I guarantee a DIYer will ring the head on 10% of the screws.(not that you are. I'm sure you wont. but lots of lads do)
thank goodness I did not lose me nail bar.

but on the other hand, the pet dog might get shot with a nail gun..

Masey .. you should let me price the job for ya..;)

the GALL

masseyno9 wrote: »

Ok, to clear up a few issues. I'm not exactly a novice, I've worked on building sites for the past 3 summers, so know my way around a job. I've done everything from dig holes to framing to mixing concrete. I'm a student doing a favour for my mother, and don't have many tools (always used whatever tools the boss gave me, including nail guns!).

The op was due to a vague memory of someone once telling me nailing was better as regards to expansion and contraction issues, but most decks i've seen were screwed, and thought people here might be able to clear it up.

the GALL, I'm not going to stick myself to the deck, I do know how to use tools. Just because someone asks a question you know the answer to doesn't make them a novice. Thanks for your condascending tone though.

Your welcome,:).

GreeBo

Personally I always like to screw things rather than nail them.
Nailing seems so vulgar compared to screwing.

Anyway back to fixing a deck

I would get 2 cordless drills/drivers.

Load one with the appropriate countersinking drill bit, the other with the correct bit for the screws you are using.

I find its quicker to drill the pilot holes myself and once I get started *anyone* can screw them in (assuming I have set the clutch on the cordless for them)

You kinda only get one shot with a nail gun, if you make a horlicks of it then youve made a horlicks of it, you can redo a screw that goes in "wonky".

Eean

jeeeez massey!! clearly nail!!! but deends on the decking, like 'decking ni' will come with holes pre-set and recommend screws. if theres no pre-drilled hole though, should be nailed, for expansion/contraction when it rains!

rameire

i have put in two quite large deckings, my parents and mine, mine is 8 months old and my parents is 10 years old, and both were put in with screws, that i got from buckleys, the brass coated type i think.

before putting in the screws i drilled pilot holes, which is a must if using screws. its easier and means the wood wont crack.

and having never had a problem on my parents decking, i would say screws are best, and handy, as a few years back a rat died under the decking, it was soo easy, i just took up two planks and took the rat out and then plonked them back down.

masseyno9

Lads, its finished nearly 2 weeks at this stage! Screwed down in the end with coated deck screws from local builders' providers. Looks the business.

Thanks for the advice (except you eean...I know where you live!)

Eean

your welcome brian!

hippychippy

Screw every time, make sure they are deck screws though, or galvanised, twice as expensive but there's a reason for everything