Ventriloquism?

6th

So would you consider Ventriloquism to be a subject covered by Magic & Illusion?

From wiki:

Ventriloquism is an act of stagecraft in which a person (a ventriloquist) manipulates his or her voice so that it appears that the voice is coming from elsewhere. The act of ventriloquism is ventriloquizing and the ability to do so is commonly called in English the ability to "throw" ones voice. However, the term "throwing one's voice" is misleading, because it implies that a sound's physical origin has changed, when really the change has been perceptual and not physical.

The illusion of ventriloquism is just that, an illusion. A ventriloquist is skilled at speaking without moving his or her lips. The audience therefore actually detects the sound of the voice from the ventriloquist’s mouth, but sees only the mouth of the puppet moving. Thus, two modalities are in conflict. Vision detects the location of the speaker as distinct from where audition (hearing) localizes the speaker. When these two modalities are in conflict, our perceptual system must resolve audition in determining where objects are located in space. The unconscious mind, therefore, resolves the discrepancy between these two modalities by hearing the voice as if it is coming from the moving mouth of the puppet. This short-term change in perception is called capture. This specific capture concerning ventriloquism is an example of ‘visual capture’ because the visual system dominates the auditory system. While the illusion is extremely convincing, ventriloquists do not actually have the ability to ‘throw’ their voices. However, they are skilled at deceiving audiences through their practice of speaking intelligible sounds without moving their mouths and moving the dummy’s mouth in synchrony with the sound of their own voice.

Indian Ventriloquist and Puppeteer Ramdas Padhye defines Ventriloquism as "An Art of throwing your voice and creating an illusion that it is coming from some other place"

I think this is fairly straight forward but I found 2 people disagreeing with me the other day.

gerky

I would consider it an illusion a good ventriloquist should be able put across an illusion that the dummy/puppet is a living thing.
Take the likes of Nina Conti she plays two completely different personality's off each other to put across the illusion of a living creature.

6th

The people I was talking to just saw it in the same circles as magic & illusion only when it came to stage/varitity acts.

I suppose the sight on a comedy set-up with a person a stool and a dummy is a fairly modern thing with early ventriloquism being used as a form of spirit communication (sorry to be mixing my interests here).

Anyway I agree 100% that its an illusion, just because people are aware of the mechanics of it that doesnt mean its not impressive.

Maybe when people understand how it works that takes away from the mystery?

Popinjay

I'd have to go with 'meh'. For some people it is, for some it isn't. I'd say there are even quite a few ventriloquists out there on either side of the fence. To me, I don't work with it and never have so I don't mind who wants to call it what. I definitely wouldn't be of a 'there's no way it's illusion' mind set but I can see why some people would.

humanji

I would see it as an illusion, only in the way an actor gives the illusion that they are someone else. I definietly wouldn't class it the same as magic. I suppose it's the fact that with magic, you're trying to trick the audience, but with ventriloquism you're not trying to make the audience believe the dummy is real, you're just trying to give an impression that it's real (if that makes any sense).

Bob the Builder

I would see it as a tiny bit of magic, a lot of illusion, and loads of talent. card tricks I have learnt are pretty amazing, but anyone with two hands(or even one hand), and a bit of co-ordination can learn card tricks. Ventriloquism, on the other hand, is a comedy show/entertainment show, but he who co-ordinates it, has an awful lot more of a talent to develop, and very few can do it well. I think it should be covered as magic and illusion. This is the most appropriate forum, and i dont think ventriloquism deserves it's own forum.

Just my opinion really... I voted yes.

While the odds are running in favor, a personal favourite from YouTube :pac: