Why can't HGVs overtake on a motorway?

JMSE

Simple question, theres no 3 lane motorway in this country (until m50 is upgraded) and as it stands HGVs are banned from using the overtaking lane on the 2 lane system. Speed-jocks need not reply.

ardmacha

Perhaps they could be allowed use the overtaking lane, but all traffic in that lane should be required to travel at the speed limit or 30 kmh faster than the vehicle on the driving lane, so that the overtaking can be completed in reasonable time. HGVs often enter the overtaking lane and travel only 5kmh faster than the vehicle they are trying to overtake so that it takes several Km for them to complete the operation.

whiterebel

JMSE wrote: »

Simple question, theres no 3 lane motorway in this country (until m50 is upgraded) and as it stands HGVs are banned from using the overtaking lane on the 2 lane system. Speed-jocks need not reply.

Someone should tell the HGV drivers

afatbollix

because they are limited to 80kph... so most of the time they are going max 85-90kph a car can go 120kph. coming across a HGV in the over taking lane you have to slam on your brakes and the wait till they finally get by the slower by 5 kph truck...

corktina

Slam on their brakes? surely even the most inept average Irish driver should be able to see a lorry from half a mile back....

There is no such law in the UK and there are many many more miles of two lane Motorway there and it isnt a problem

I suspect this is a result of a bit of dodgy rule-writing where they actually intended it to ban lorries from the overtaking lane of a three-lane road when we get some.

Incidentally, I believe trucks are limited to 90 km/h (or 56 mph in old money)

green123

whiterebel wrote: »

Someone should tell the HGV drivers

and the useless traffic cops who allow it

JMSE

corktina wrote: »

Slam on their brakes? surely even the most inept average Irish driver should be able to see a lorry from half a mile back....

There is no such law in the UK and there are many many more miles of two lane Motorway there and it isnt a problem

I suspect this is a result of a bit of dodgy rule-writing where they actually intended it to ban lorries from the overtaking lane of a three-lane road when we get some.

Incidentally, I believe trucks are limited to 90 km/h (or 56 mph in old money)

What she said!

Its a half assed regulation for Ireland, introduced in other countries where they actually have three lanes. Half assed also on that they didnt apply the rule to dual carriageways.
Couldnt traffic cops pull the trucker sitting out in the fast lane on not having consideration for other road users and avoid the need to invent new rules.
What is a HGV driver to do, sit behind an old dear driving at 31mph all the way from Naas to the far side of Portlaoise, or from Santry to Newry, come on its a ridiculous notion. Roads are for the movement of goods more than anything. A HGV can pay around 3,000 euro per annum for road tax which pays for the development of better roads, get banned from local roads with low weight limits, be forced thru tolled areas, and yet still be told to travel at the speed of the slowest driver on that route.

Wishbone Ash

corktina wrote: »

Incidentally, I believe trucks are limited to 90 km/h (or 56 mph in old money)

No it's 80kph and was 50mph is old money. The limiters are generally set at around 90pkh/55mph though.

JMSE wrote: »

Half assed also on that they didnt apply the rule to dual carriageways

If you think it's 'half assed' perhaps you could explain how a truck would make a right turn on a dual carriageway if they weren't permitted to use the right lane.

Bear in mind lads that the restriction doesn't apply to sections of motorways where the speed limit is 80kph or lower.

JMSE

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you think it's 'half assed' perhaps you could explain how a truck would make a right turn on a dual carriageway if they weren't permitted to use the right lane.

dont want to even go there, simply forgot there was any of those broken medians left on the country's main dualers, i think you're tryin to get me (the original poster) to argue with myself

Wishbone Ash

JMSE wrote: »

theres no 3 lane motorway in this country

The M1 is three lanes northbound, and four lanes southbound in the vicinity on the northern end of the DPT.

EDIT: .......and the M1 westbound has four lanes near Dublin Airport.

Niall1234

Came accross two HGV's, one trying to overtake the other on the Watergrasshill bypass.

It must have taken 5 miles for the lorry to pass the other. Cue all the drivers on the horns to the idiot who must have been holding up 40 cars trying to overtake the slower lorry.

JMSE

Niall1234 wrote: »

Came accross two HGV's, one trying to overtake the other on the Watergrasshill bypass.

It must have taken 5 miles for the lorry to pass the other. Cue all the drivers on the horns to the idiot who must have been holding up 40 cars trying to overtake the slower lorry.

And he should probably be done for that, I just want to pass the ones going slower than my limited max speed, theres two lanes, its going to take a few seconds, no-one will die, it would be legal on the older N roads where theres a number of things that could possibly go wrong, and sometimes do resulting in big smashes. Has anyone EVER heard of an accident resulting from an empty artic overtaking a loaded one going slower, on a motorway?

trellheim

Came accross two HGV's, one trying to overtake the other on the Watergrasshill bypass

A legal manoeuvre, no, the speed limit is 80 there isn't it ? [ open to correction ]

Niall1234

He started the manouver within the 120kph section just after the toll booth going up a hill. Changed to 100kph after that.

Didn't finish the manouver until the long hill down to Glanmire off ramp.

He must have been empty with the other one full, not being able to get speed going up the hill. He then realised that his lorry could do about 1 kph more than the other yet kept going for it. The guy on the inside must have been uninterested and just kept his speed up.

While it is not dangerous to overtake on Dual Carriage ways, holding up traffic for 5 miles is an appauling misjudgement.

Wishbone Ash

Niall1234 wrote: »

He must have been empty with the other one full, not being able to get speed going up the hill

Or had a more powerful engine. Tractor units are usually between 320 hp and 600 hp.

Niall1234 wrote:

The guy on the inside must have been uninterested and just kept his speed up.

He probably had the cruise control on but should have relented for the sake of a few seconds.

corktina

understandable...you dont slow up on a hill in a hgv if you can hlep it...and you dont know what power or load the other guy has until you go past him (or dont)...give the guys a break...it didnt hold anyone up for more than a minute or two if that


(BTW JMSE thx for the sex-change.... thats corKtina as in Cortina with a K in it.....not CorkTina...

JMSE

corktina wrote: »

(BTW JMSE thx for the sex-change.... thats corKtina as in Cortina with a K in it.....not CorkTina...

no bother :thumbsup:


On the uninterested inside driver, if it was a wet road then I would have done the same and left him out there because I dont want to sit in his spray just like he didnt want to sit in mine. The dude going nowhere on the outside needs to learn to drive lorries, what works for others and what doesnt.

Also, no-one has put forward a good reason for banning faster moving HGVs from overtaking slower ones.

Wishbone Ash

JMSE wrote: »

no-one has put forward a good reason for banning faster moving HGVs from overtaking slower ones.

A few possible reasons:

(By the way lads, the restriction applies to nearly all vehicles over 3500kgs, not just HGVs - heavy vans, buses etc.)


1. Slower HGVs travelling on an open motorway are nearly always travelling at 80kph which is the legal speed limit anyway. The trucks which use the overtaking lane are nearly always exceeding the 80kph limit. By allowing them to use the overtaking lane merely condones this practice.

2. It impedes the progress of faster vehicles. A truck travelling at 81kph will take a while to pass a truck travelling at 80kph.

3. Large articulated vehicles weaving in and out of ,motorway lanes is potentially much more dangerous than smaller vehicle doing the same.

Niall1234

Could a HGV driver get done for overtaking a tractor on a Dual Carriageway for would the Gardai use some common sense there ?

TheNog

JMSE wrote: »

Simple question, theres no 3 lane motorway in this country (until m50 is upgraded) and as it stands HGVs are banned from using the overtaking lane on the 2 lane system. Speed-jocks need not reply.

Because faster cars come up behind slower trucks very quickly indeed however some Traffic Corp lads will allow a truck overtake if they don't hold up traffic too much and don't create a danger to themselves or anyone else.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

If you think it's 'half assed' perhaps you could explain how a truck would make a right turn on a dual carriageway if they weren't permitted to use the right lane.

Dual carraigeway rules are different to motorway such as HGV's in overtaking lane, L drivers allowed and slower machines allowed too etc. Speed limits on rural duallers is generally 100kph, urban duallers do differ. Dual carraige ways are treated just like a normal 2 lane road.

Niall1234 wrote: »

Could a HGV driver get done for overtaking a tractor on a Dual Carriageway for would the Gardai use some common sense there ?

See above. Penalty points and a fine are Motorway related only.

Wishbone Ash

Niall1234 wrote: »

Could a HGV driver get done for overtaking a tractor on a Dual Carriageway for would the Gardai use some common sense there ?

No (provided no other offenses were comitted).

TheNog wrote: »

Dual carraigeway rules are different to motorway such as HGV's in overtaking lane, L drivers allowed and slower machines allowed too etc. Speed limits on rural duallers is generally 100kph, urban duallers do differ. Dual carraige ways are treated just like a normal 2 lane road.

I do realise the difference between a motorway and DC. The OP suggested that the restriction on the right lane should be applied to DCs. I was merely asking him then, how they would make a right turn.

Lennoxschips

Even in Germany, where there is no speed limit on many motorways, HGVs are allowed to overtake. The general rule is that they have to be going 10 km/hr faster than the traffic they are overtaking.

You see cars driving up to them and then braking. All I can say is that those people can't drive properly.

mackerski

Lennoxschips wrote: »

Even in Germany, where there is no speed limit on many motorways, HGVs are allowed to overtake. The general rule is that they have to be going 10 km/hr faster than the traffic they are overtaking.

All vehicles overtaking in Germany are subject to the stipulation that they may only do so if travelling at significantly (erheblich) higher speed. On two-lane Autobahnen there is no blanket rule prohibiting HGV overtaking, but prohibitions may be applied by fixed or variable sign and you find these particularly on gradients (uphill and downhill).

Above 2 lanes there is a blanket truck ban for the innermost lane.

Blk150

Niall1234 wrote: »

Came accross two HGV's, one trying to overtake the other on the Watergrasshill bypass.

It must have taken 5 miles for the lorry to pass the other. Cue all the drivers on the horns to the idiot who must have been holding up 40 cars trying to overtake the slower lorry.

That was me proberly:D

TheNog

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

No (provided no other offenses were comitted).

I do realise the difference between a motorway and DC. The OP suggested that the restriction on the right lane should be applied to DCs. I was merely asking him then, how they would make a right turn.

*slaps forehead*

Ah right then sorry about that