Had the potential to be great..

UnitedIrishman

I thought of this idea of a thread when I was reading a book about Mayo football recently and noticed the amount of players who seemingly had the world at their feet but for one reason or another didn't make it to the top.

From our own county these are the ones that come to mind..

Padraig Brogan (that goal against Dublin coupled with a number of points at club level that live on in folklore. Stories of kicked points from within his own half and thunderous goals go down in legend but never quite did it at the highest level.)

John Casey (serious injury - could run 100m in under 11 seconds and play half back or half forward. A great person at heart and a serious loss to Mayo teams down through the years. Now plays in goals for Charlestown just so he can still be involved)

Ted Webb (death at young age)

Kevin O'Neill (snubbed selection by Maughan and was in America when Holmes was manager. So it wasn't until 2006 he made a comeback in Mayo colours in his mid-thirties despite kicking 10 or 11 points in every club game for Knockmore)

Ronan Golding (Martin Carney told John Maughan he was the best underage prodigy he had ever seen.. somehow things just didn't work out)

I'll probably remember others as I go along... but who are your counties?

CyberDave

I'm from Galway. There is an inordinate amount of underage hurlers who have been great at underage level but failed to make it at the senior grade.

Eugene Cloonan, was a teenage prodigy, maybe not as good as Joe Canning, but he had the potential to win a couple of all-irelands. He had the chance in 2001 and shouldv'e had the chance in 2005 against Cork. Both fianls we lost.

Cathal Moore, early retirement.

Players like Rory Gantley & Brian O'Mahoney just disappearing off the County team radar.

aidan24326

Probably for me the strangest one from a Galway perspective was John Concannon from Milltown. Non-Galway people will say John who? He was on the Galway minor team that lost the '94 final and on the St.Jarlath's team that won the Hogan Cup that year. Murdered the Dublin fullback line in the minor semi. He was the star of those teams despite playing alongside the likes of Padraig Joyce, Michael Donnellan, Declan Meehan, Paul Clancy, Derek Savage etc.

He was actually outshining both Joyce and Donnellan and was probably the best underage forward in Ireland at the time. Yet he never kicked a ball for Galway at senior level. 9 of his teammates from the 94 minor team were togged in Croke Park for the 98 senior final against Kildare (6 starting and 3 subs) and I'm still not sure why he wasn't there with them. Definitely one that got away.

yurmothrintites

I think it's a disgrace how kevin O'Neill was treated by the likes of Maughan, he was undoubtingly one of the best footballers to come out of mayo in the last fifteen years.

David Brady was also snubbed by Mayo management on several occasions. He is a brilliant player, who was subjected to the biased management of John Maughan.

CyberDave

aidan24326 wrote: »

Probably for me the strangest one from a Galway perspective was John Concannon from Milltown. Non-Galway people will say John who? He was on the Galway minor team that lost the '94 final and on the St.Jarlath's team that won the Hogan Cup that year. Murdered the Dublin fullback line in the minor semi. He was the star of those teams despite playing alongside the likes of Padraig Joyce, Michael Donnellan, Declan Meehan, Paul Clancy, Derek Savage etc.

He was actually outshining both Joyce and Donnellan and was probably the best underage forward in Ireland at the time. Yet he never kicked a ball for Galway at senior level. 9 of his teammates from the 94 minor team were togged in Croke Park for the 98 senior final against Kildare (6 starting and 3 subs) and I'm still not sure why he wasn't there with them. Definitely one that got away.

A very good example. I remember him. He was a classy forward. I can't remember him turing out much for Milltown either. He must have immigrated or something.

kevmy

I've another Mayo one to add to the list

Pierse Hanley.

He could still be great but he'll be great playing Aussie Rules. He had the potential to be one of those once-ever-ten-years type of player. He was the natural successor to Kieran Mac but we'll probably never see him line out in the green and red again

UnitedIrishman

kevmy wrote: »

I've another Mayo one to add to the list

Pierse Hanley.

He could still be great but he'll be great playing Aussie Rules. He had the potential to be one of those once-ever-ten-years type of player. He was the natural successor to Kieran Mac but we'll probably never see him line out in the green and red again

He'll be back. Talking to him a few times he still wants to win an All-Ireland with Mayo before he stops playing. A few years in Australia playing the game he loves will do him no harm and fair play to him for doing so.

Billy Fitzpatrick is another one.

jethro081

I'm from monaghan and it's mainly the drink that got in football's way (or vice versa) but a few spring to mind.

Shane Mc Manus was a seriously gifted player but he did his cruciate and while he was still class he never really was the same after. played for monaghan for a while but only for the injury would have been one of our shining lights in the barren nineties.

Peter Duffy had the talent to be one of the Best (if not the best) forwards in ireland as he showed a few times in his checkered monaghan career but his heart wasn't in it and he never achived what he could have due to personal gear. its a shame cos he was class.


Another Blayney lad Kieran Tavey was and is one of the best forwards at club level i've ever seen but for some reason he just didn't do it at county level. another strange one

CyberDave

A point could be made, that in general, the core reason many underage stars don't make it through to senior is alcohol and the distractions it causes?

gaeilgegrinds

My fiance was a , 'great.' His ex distracted him. Says due to the freedom we have he's back on track...booze & women lead to manys a downfall IMO.

gucci

CyberDave wrote: »

A point could be made, that in general, the core reason many underage stars don't make it through to senior is alcohol and the distractions it causes?

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

My fiance was a , 'great.' His ex distracted him. Says due to the freedom we have he's back on track...booze & women lead to manys a downfall IMO.

I wouldnt agree drink and women are the sole reason footballers disappear. Not saying it has or hasnt been the reason for anyone mentioned above, but you have to look at the level of commitment required to even play senior club football and senior county is another level beyond that.
As well as training X number of nights a week, they are away from their family/girlfriend/mates who can feck off wherever they like for a few evenings here or there during the summer.
Beer would be a major factor, but its too easy to just point that out as the sole deciding factor!

CyberDave

Well the reason players are not willing to give that commitment is very often that there is very little reward for it, just abuse.

jethro081

CyberDave wrote: »

Well the reason players are not willing to give that commitment is very often that there is very little reward for it, just abuse.

thats a fair point. we're all working off the assumption that they wanted to be top class footballers when in many cases they have the talent but not the drive or the love of it.

CyberDave

jethro081 wrote: »

thats a fair point. we're all working off the assumption that they wanted to be top class footballers when in many cases they have the talent but not the drive or the love of it.

Another factor could be that in at underage levels there more focus on skills and touch than on the physical fitness as young lads are naturally fit anyway. When these talented underage players start training with the Seniors they are spending hours running around the pitch before kicking or hitting a single ball and loose interest and commitment, it's not as much fun to train anymore whereas it is fun to go out clubbing.

megadodge

Paul Victory from Longford is probably the most brilliant underage footballer I ever saw.

Built like a tank but very quick, two excellent feet, direct, smart.... just everything you could think of.

He scored the winning point for St. Mel's in the 1987 colleges All-Ireland and starred in the following year's semi and final despite limping around with a massively bandaged hamstring. Played for a year or two with Longford seniors and then disappeared.

Anyone know what happened ?

Nullandvoid

Tipp hurler Eugene O' Neill. Probably just didn't grow tall enough for senior but was a classy minor.

aidan24326

CyberDave wrote: »

Another factor could be that in at underage levels there more focus on skills and touch than on the physical fitness as young lads are naturally fit anyway. When these talented underage players start training with the Seniors they are spending hours running around the pitch before kicking or hitting a single ball and loose interest and commitment, it's not as much fun to train anymore whereas it is fun to go out clubbing.

This is a fair point. It's all gone too serious now, even at club level they're expecting major commitment. Some lads just haven't the time nor the inclination to put the effort in. Take Paul Clancy for example. Still more than good enough to be playing for Galway but he no longer has the time or the desire for it. Which is fair enough.

gaeilgegrinds

I think profession has something to do with it. Quite a few of the players I know have understanding bosses but seom chose careers that simply do not allow them to dip in and out of. So the sport had to go. Maybe I'm wrong in that but I see it as a big deal when work commitments are never an issue as opposed to someone with lots of responsibilities at work.

yabadabado

i think it has alot to do with commitment and desire to be a top footballer plus throw in alcohol and woman and u can see where a lad would just say **** it.it not just the GAA either think of all the fellas who were goin be the next big thing in soccer/rugby and never made it and they get paid ffs

deadfingers

I think when a good player is at minor level they are exposed to a lot of football. I know one county minor from my club who was playing with our minor team, U21, senior team, b-team, the county minors, freshers and Sigersons (spelling) in college all in the same season. That player is now 23 and is always plauged with injuries.

damnyanks

I remember years ago when I played feile for the hurling there was some lad from kilkenny called shane hennessy. He was amazing (At u-14 ) He got onto the killkenny team at some stage but I dont think he kept in there.

john concannon

Seems to be a lot of galwegians here.I think Sean Armstrong will fall into this categorie in the future.Can't remember the name of the Kerry full-forward who won a minor All-Ireland in 2005 but he was murdered.

taidghbaby

CyberDave wrote: »

Well the reason players are not willing to give that commitment is very often that there is very little reward for it, just abuse.

very good point-i played senior in both codes from a very young age and only ever seemed to get abuse-the only time a manager/selector talked to ya was to tell you what youve done wrong. its like this at all grades and at all ages!
im only 24 and havent played in 3 yrs-i play soccer now where if you o something wrong you get told, but also if you do something rite you get told.

im not saying that i/or anyone else for that matter should be treated with velvet gloves, but from my experience after a while you just get too p****d off with it all.

there is too much begrudgery out there and lifes too short to listen to it all!!

aidan24326

yabadabado wrote: »

i think it has alot to do with commitment and desire to be a top footballer plus throw in alcohol and woman and u can see where a lad would just say **** it.it not just the GAA either think of all the fellas who were goin be the next big thing in soccer/rugby and never made it and they get paid ffs

It boils down to the fact that there's a life outside sport and not everyone can be bothered to make the effort. You're right in saying it happens in professional sport aswell. I saw an article in the paper one time about the United youth team from the early nineties that included Gary Neville, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt etc. There was a couple of guys on that team who never even made it at pro level, even though they were surely good enough. I think one of them was working in a carpet store or something now.

megadodge

the name of the Kerry full-forward who won a minor All-Ireland in 2005 but he was murdered

Kerry didn't win the minor in 2005, Down did, but I'm interested in hearing the rest of the story. What happened him ?

john concannon

I could be wrong ( I already was) but did he not get killed or murdered on the way home.I really hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.

MementoMori

the name of the Kerry full-forward who won a minor All-Ireland in 2005 but he was murdered

This statement is definately false - no Kerry minor football player has been murdered recently and in 2005 it was Paddy Curran who was full forward if I remember correctly - given he's lining out for the U21s at the moment I'm pretty sure he's alive and kicking.

I could be wrong ( I already was) but did he not get killed or murdered on the way home.I really hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.

What this brings to mind is the death of Martin Beckett from the Crokes. He died at 18 but this was back in the summer of 1998. He had played minor in 1996 and 1997 and won an All-Ireland with the u-21s as well as being called in for training with the senior panel at some stage. He died in a car crash on his way home from a holiday in Spain - driving down from Dublin airport. Definately had the potental to be great inter-county player - was a real classy stylish player. Almost looked composed on the ball and seemed to have loads of time. Without doubt would have been a Kerry senior. Was mentioned as such by Jack O'Connor in his Keys to the Kingdom book.

The Martin Beckett thing always sticks in my mind because at a Crokes game some time later (six months/a year maybe) I remember turning to my dad and going "why the hell isn't Martin Beckett playing?" before I realised what I said.

Could also be mixing it up with the drowning death of Kieran Cahillane from Dr Crokes in 2005 - friend of the Gooch and the fact of the death was kept from him until after the quarter-final against Mayo.

Lemme know if this clears things up somebit

john concannon

Sorry everybody.It could have been a fan.

Amazotheamazing

Most obvious player for me (coming from Limerick) is Ciaran Carey. Gave us some great days but never became the player he could or should been. He's involved in coaching now, i hope he's got himself back together and has put his demons behind him.

sslazio11

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Most obvious player for me (coming from Limerick) is Ciaran Carey. Gave us some great days but never became the player he could or should been. He's involved in coaching now, i hope he's got himself back together and has put his demons behind him.

I did an interview with him for a college paper a few years back and he was in fine fettle. Played with the Limerick intermediates either last year or the year before, still enjoys his hurling. Agree with you that he never fulfilled his promise, but there were mitigating factors, obviously.

dermob

I played county underage up to u21, won all the cmpetitions from u-14 to u21 in the county, won the u21 when i was 16. won a lot of county titles at schools level and was always in contention for a leinster. i remember being on 12 teams at one stage. club u16,u18,u21, junior, intermediate - imalgamation u16, u18, schools u16, senior, county u-16, basketball.

after 2 broken legs, 6 cracked ribs, osteopubiscus (pelvic), torn stomach muscles, torn hampstrings, pulled muscles etc, i now walk around with a pain in my lower back constantly.

some of the injuries put me out for a few years where i said f*ck it, put on weight etc..........

now i`m nearly 30 and tonight i`ll be travelling 2 hrs home to train under some army seargeant!!

Stupidity?

Marse

CyberDave wrote: »

Another factor could be that in at underage levels there more focus on skills and touch than on the physical fitness as young lads are naturally fit anyway. When these talented underage players start training with the Seniors they are spending hours running around the pitch before kicking or hitting a single ball and loose interest and commitment, it's not as much fun to train anymore whereas it is fun to go out clubbing.

I’d say that has more to do with the line of thought that if you make it to the senior team you have the necessary skills and you need to work on fitness/speed required for intercounty football. IMO

LeoB

A SUPER THREAD FOLKS.

Im from Dublin and about 100 names came to mind but I would sway for 2 Louth players Seamus O'Hanlon and Aiden Wiseman. Its probably off thread a bit but both of these were fantastic. If memory serves me correctly Wiseman emigrated to States. O'Hanlon carried Louth for a good few years.I helped train a team outside Dublin for about 2 seasons and was amazed at the ability of the players but more amazed at he lack of commitment.

Some people just are not cut out for it. We concentrate on skills for years with players as they grow up and then we run th backsides off them. From what I have seen this is the biggest turn-off for lads 19 or 20.
no drink, no night clubs, no hols. Thats a lot to ask. Dont think women are a problem they will often keep a lad on the right road but then they make the sacrafice also.
As for Dublin, Declan Bolger, Alan McNally, John Calvert the list is a long one. Oh would have liked to see Timmy Cummins play for Dublin. He was the best Club player I played against but he stayed loyal to Limerick and fair play to hi.

flahavaj

Johnny Brenner was arguably the star of Waterford's 1992 Under-21 All ireland wining team. Then he gradually faded and never really made an impact at senior level, while guys like Tony Browne and Paul Flynn went onto become legends.

corcaioch

CyberDave wrote: »

I'm from Galway. There is an inordinate amount of underage hurlers who have been great at underage level but failed to make it at the senior grade.

Eugene Cloonan, was a teenage prodigy, maybe not as good as Joe Canning, but he had the potential to win a couple of all-irelands.

A player doesn't win All Irelands...a team does. Even with the best talent in the country in Joe Canning - Galway may struggle to win an All Ireland in the next few years.

corcaioch

flahavaj wrote: »

Johnny Brenner was arguably the star of Waterford's 1992 Under-21 All ireland wining team. Then he gradually faded and never really made an impact at senior level, while guys like Tony Browne and Paul Flynn went onto become legends.

That's right. Brenner was a class act at the time.

rossie1977

christ you could fill a page with roscommon players in recent years, here is 3 though

Derek Duggan, burst onto the scene at 19 in 1991, big, strong, athletic and could score from any and all angles as seen in the 1991 all-ireland semi against meath, after that first season injuries destroyed what would have been a great career, his place in roscommon folklore and mayo nightmares is assured though because of that last second point from 70 yards (against a gale force wind :P) to bring the 1991 connaught final to a replay

Seamus O'Neill, another 19 year old who burst onto the scene in 2001, MOTM championship debut in tuam against galway where he made kevin walsh and joe bergin look second rate, last seen coming to a late night disco near you

Frankie Dolan, its hard to believe that 6 years ago this guy was scoring 12-13 points a game in the championship, he had a bad game by his standards in the 2003 q-final when he only scored 1-4 against kerry , part of that roscommon team that enjoyed their partying more than their football

LeoB

Duggan was class. What about the goal he scored in Croke Pk. As one witty Meathman said to me " If there was a gate on the Hill our lads would have been on Clonliffe Rd" didnt think the dummy was that good but he was a super player. His brother Ken played for Roscommon also and was good full-back heard he never got a fair crack of whip. Derek Thompson and another Duggan Kevin? was a very good player also.

hello_there_jim

seamus o neill? midfilder? is he not a good player now no?

grenache

From my own Shannonside point of view it would have to be Colm Hickey. He won an u-21 Munster championship with Limerick in 2000 and was top scorer for us in the AI Final against Tyrone. He soon graduated to the senior ranks. I can remember him tormenting some of the bigger teams like Kerry and Cork on more than a couple of occasions in the early part of this decade. Yet by the time we had were participating in Munster Senior Finals only a fer years later, he was well down the pecking order. Hickey was probably one of the very few naturally talented forwards Limerick produced this decade. I think he faded off the senior panel due to fitness issues or something similar. He was also a member of the Limerick hurling panel that won u-21 treble between 2000 and 2002. The guy is just a gifted sportsman and lined out for the Limerick Junior team last Sunday in Ennis.

sos33

alot of good underage players were big lads for there age-minor u21 etc,then there team mates filled out with better skills as they got older and suddenly these players were just decent players,as for the women /drink debate to keep a 19 or 20 year old away from partying is a tough job and they need to let off steam now and again
my own county is laois and there is two many to mention of players that went by the wayside from underage all-irelands to not even playing now

theram

Duggan got done by injuries, but still was part of a Rea side that won a County title this year, so he didnt throw anything away.

As a Laois man I could name any number of players. Here's a few

Martin Delaney Went to the States one year after captaining Laois to first ever Minor All Ireland

Stephen Kelly Most natural forward Laois produced in the last 20 years even after Beano.

Beano An outstanding career, but injuries stopped him becoming the player he was destined to be.

RocketRonnie

theram wrote: »

Duggan got done by injuries, but still was part of a Rea side that won a County title this year, so he didnt throw anything away.

As a Laois man I could name any number of players. Here's a few

Martin Delaney Went to the States one year after captaining Laois to first ever Minor All Ireland

Stephen Kelly Most natural forward Laois produced in the last 20 years even after Beano.

Beano An outstanding career, but injuries stopped him becoming the player he was destined to be.

Yea, thats a real shame about Beano, absolutly fantastic footballer. No question had the potential to be one of the greats!!.... Is he playin any sort of ball now..??

One that springs to mind is Barry Callaghan of Meath, won an All-Ireland in '96 in his debut year.
He made an outstanding contribution from corner-forward that year!
Only played another couple of c'ships, was a sub when Meath won again in '99.....
He then pretty much dissapeared off the county scene, dont even think he's playin club football now!!

BnA

Galway is a bit of a graveyard for young hurlers...

I know Eugene Cloonan did play senior for a good few years and won AI Clubs with Athenry, but I still thought there was a lot more in him. As a Clareman, I'd say he was the one hurler who always gave Brian Lohan a torrid time.

Rory Gantley was a fine hurler but never really made it at senior.

In Limerick, Mark Foleys younger brother (Jack ?) I saw him play a few Fitzgibbon Cup games for UL and he was outstanding. Apparently he just lost interest. I don't think he even plays with Adare now.

In Clare, Enda Flannery could have done an awful lot more hurling but he emigrated. He's back now alright but his best years are behind him.

Also Minor Captain in 97 - John Redden. I always felt he was fecked around by Cyril Lyons when he was over them and he never really bothered with Clare after that.

brandon_flowers

Dan Doona - Now tipping around with New York when he feels like it, would easily be on the Kerry team if it wasnt for that "nightclub" broken jaw incident with the Kerry team in Lanzarote.

In Kerry nearly every club has one fella that could have been a county player if it wasnt for beer.

mack flyer

i remember about 20 years ago going to the leinster final and there was a lad playing with offaly minors that kicked points from everywhere and i thought he was going to be the next matt connor and i dont think he ever played senior after..cant remember his name sorry but i think he played for edenderry as i remember checking that on the programme

megadodge

Seamus O'Neill, another 19 year old who burst onto the scene in 2001, MOTM championship debut in tuam against galway where he made kevin walsh and joe bergin look second rate, last seen coming to a late night disco near you

Really annoyed reading this, although you'll find plenty of the less knowledgable Rossie pub pundits to agree.

I am not a friend of Seamie, but I'd know him fairly well and I worked until very recently in the only nightclub worth talking about in Roscommon, so I know what I'm talking about when I say that he'd be in Rockfords maybe a few times a year at most. He got married recently and since he hooked up with her (like a lot of lads under the thumb) a few years back he's seldom seen clubbing. Even before that he wasn't one of the notorious crew who could match any drinkers on any team in Ireland (you know who I'm talking about).

Right now he has a long-term injury that's keeping from playing football. However, for me as a person who sees Roscommon playing regularly every year, Seamie O'Neill is consistently one of Roscommon's best players every year, but like a bird with one wing a team can't function with only ONE midfielder. Ever since Fergie retired Seamie has had nobody to help him (Stephen Lohan came closest but wasn't robust enough) and inevitably opposing teams figure out how to counteract him within 20-30 minutes or so. This is what the problem is, not O'Neill 'fading out of the game'. Opp's goalies kick the ball away from him, opp's midfielders/half lines crowd him out/block his runs etc. It's not rocket science !!

The big pity is that Gerry Grogan died. He was raw but had oodles of natural athleticism which could have been fine-tuned and you'd have had some midfield pair then.

cashback

RocketRonnie wrote: »

Yea, thats a real shame about Beano, absolutly fantastic footballer. No question had the potential to be one of the greats!!.... Is he playin any sort of ball now..??

Beano is still on the Laois panel though not getting a lot of playing time.
He is also still playing club football with Arles/Killeen.