full frame

deaddonkey

i've recently been thinking about full frame digital because frankly i can't deal with the tiny tiny tiny viewfinder on the 350D (can't be focused manually in good light, let alone low light which is what i shoot in a lot) and the mindlessly stupid aperture controls (whoever thought of that needs a kick in the babymaker ), and film is expensive/a lot of hassle and i don't have access to a darkroom.
the only canon lenses i have are the nifty fifty which is too long on the 350d, and the kit lens, which is slow and soft and can't be focussed manually. so i'm not tied to canon.

so what are my options, i don't need a zillion frames per second, just a nice big viewfinder, useable controls, and good high ISO performance.
are canon the only ones doing full frame? is there anything out there other than canon and nikon with avail.able lenses? i won't need long telephoto lenses, a nice wide angle/ low-medium zoom, say 24-85 or so in 35mm terms. and i want the lens to be quite fast and as sharp as possible.

any ideas/input? is it worth the considerable investment for a hobbyist photographer? a mate of mine bought a 5d and really loves it, but it's EXPENSIVE, is that the cheapest there is? anyone based around dublin that would show off their full frame dSLR to me perhaps?

love,
donk

pete4130

Cheapest options is probably the Canon 5D. Bit older but great camera from what I've seen of it. With Nikon, thats the D3, and about €4500 to get it. Kodak do a 14MP full frame that takes Nikon mount lenses, but thats a bit dates nowadays. There arent many out there bar the fleet of 1D series cameras, which still cost a fair bit 2nd hand.

The 5D is a good compromise, full frame, good in low light.

deaddonkey

damn, if the 5d is the cheapest option i'll have to wait til prices come down a bit across the board for dSLRs, any idea when/how much that will be?

eas

the 5d is the cheapest by a long shot if buying new and it's really quite a bargain at the moment if you ask me.

but you don't need a full frame camera to get a decent viewfinder - I'm not sure about this but I'd guess a 40d may have more or less the same viewfinder as the 5d?

deaddonkey

i briefly tried a 40d a while back and to me the viewfinder seemed only marginally bigger than the 350d, no where near as big as my nikon fg-20, which when coupled with the old nikon 50mm f/1.8 has the nicest brightest viewfinder you could imagine. but i'llt ake another look at the 40d sometime.

quilmore

deaddonkey wrote: »

i've recently been thinking about full frame digital because frankly i can't deal with the tiny tiny tiny viewfinder on the 350D

Full frame won't give you a big view finder
a pro camera (even with a crop sensor like all nikons D2's) will give you a big and bright viewfinder

deaddonkey

hmmm... i thought the big viewfinder was because of the big mirror and full size sensor... the mirror has to be big enough to cover the shutter, so the whole thing together gives a big viewfinder. i figured making a bigger viewfinder means installing a bigger mirror, which won't give you the 'what you see is what you get' aspect.
where did i go wrong there?

basically i'm looking for a digital SLR with a viewfinder the same as my old film SLRs, anything smaller and i just can't focus it.

rymus

quilmore wrote: »

Full frame won't give you a big view finder

Having moved from a 1.6x crop camera to a 5D, I'd beg to differ on the above.

eas

deaddonkey wrote: »

i briefly tried a 40d a while back and to me the viewfinder seemed only marginally bigger than the 350d,

then you know more about it than I do, I'm proably way off in my assumtion I use Nikons (shhh)

I know that the d200 viewfinder was a big imrovement on the D70 - and the D300 is an improment again. Maybe you should look at a D300?

Borderfox

quilmore wrote: »

Full frame won't give you a big view finder
a pro camera (even with a crop sensor like all nikons D2's) will give you a big and bright viewfinder

Full frame will give you a big bright viewfinder, a 1d or a D3 will give you 100% coverage..

eas

Borderfox wrote: »

Full frame will give you a big bright viewfinder, a 1d or a D3 will give you 100% coverage..

d300 = 100% coverage AFAIK

GristlyEnd

eas wrote: »

d300 = 100% coverage AFAIK

Correct

eas

DarrenG wrote: »

Correct

great - my advice accuracy on this thread has hit 50%, I'd better keep my mouth shut while I'm up.

isadub

so what are my options, i don't need a zillion frames per second, just a nice big viewfinder, useable controls, and good high ISO performance.

Maybe try the Nikon D300 - it's got Live View which I think means you can compose the picture on the back LCD before you press the button. The ergonomics are supposed to be good and it's got a good ISO performance.

Don't know about your budget but it's just shy of €2,000.

quilmore

the actual frame hides behind a mirror while you're using the viewfinder, so little effect has to what you can see...
any nikon D1 or D2 will have one of the brightest 100% viewfinders you'll find
and all of them are 1.5x sensors (APS-C size)

also, in most budget film cameras (full frame, obviously) you get a darker viewfinder than in today's top of the range digital cameras (crop or not)

deaddonkey

i think y'all are getting confused between percentage coverage of the viewfinder, which is independent from the size of the sensor and of the apparent size of the viewfinder.

Borderfox

If you have a 5d and a 50mm f1.4 on the viewfinder is so bright.

Mellor

rymus wrote: »

Having moved from a 1.6x crop camera to a 5D, I'd beg to differ on the above.

I think you misunderstood. The 5D has a big viewfinder, but not because it is full frame, because it is a pro camera. Pro camera with a crop sensor also have large viewfinders.


OP, If you are only after a larger viewfinder, try out an enlarger, alot cheaper if you can't afford to go full frame, after that you may wish upgrade at a later date

Borderfox

5d viewfinder is bigger than 1d, just checked

deaddonkey

Mellor wrote: »

I think you misunderstood. The 5D has a big viewfinder, but not because it is full frame, because it is a pro camera. Pro camera with a crop sensor also have large viewfinders.

can someone explain this to me please? as far as my brain understands the concept of SLRs, the size of the viewfinder is linked directly to the size of the sensor - the 40d is a high end crop camera, and has a small viewfinder too, whereas my old entry level film SLRs have full size viewfinders. i don't see how it's physically possible to put a larger viewfinder into a camera without destroying the viewfinder's accuracy. i'm mighty confused now.

just so i'm not confusing people here, i'm referring to the perceived size of the rectangle you see of what the lens is seeing when you put your eye up to the camera - on the 350d it's tiny, and film SLRs it's much bigger and easier to focus.

i'll read up on the enlarger stuff too, thanks

Borderfox

I repeat the viewfinder is bigger on the 5d than the 1d, I have both and checked with the same lens on.. If you are near Dunshaughlin let me know and I can show you a 5d and various lenses on it..

deaddonkey

i'm not nearby, but thanks anyway

is the 1d a 1.3 crop? i'm not familiar with all the different models.

Paddy@CIRL

1D is a 1.3x crop alright

I did find the 40D's viewfinder much better than the 350D but still not as good as the 5D or any other FF body. It could be worth a try, especially coupled with Liveview aswell ?

deaddonkey

i'm gonna take another look at the 40d, but i doubt i'd be interested, because at some point i'm going to have to go full frame, so a 40d at this stage would probably be a false economy if in 2 years i'm gonna go full frame with a good lens anyway

elderlemon

I just got the 40D last month. I found the viewfinder to be a great improvement over the 350D (my previous camera). Much brighter and so much easier to use.

deaddonkey wrote: »

i'm gonna take another look at the 40d, but i doubt i'd be interested, because at some point i'm going to have to go full frame, so a 40d at this stage would probably be a false economy if in 2 years i'm gonna go full frame with a good lens anyway

Fajitas!

The 5D has a nice bright viewfinder alright. It's 95% coverage though, so won't show up the whole frame, as a 1D will. From what you're saying, it's your best buy, second hand you should be able to pick one up in perfect nick for about €1000.

Roen

Just look through a few in a shop or at a meet.