Industrial estates with garmin?

Cyrus

Just wondering lads how can i navigate to an ind estate with garmin (using mobile xt) when i get there its mapped but i cant seem to find the way to select the address?

coylemj

Industrial estates don't use house numbers so you won't be able to navigate to your exact location, just the road. Whatever data the lads in OSi supply to Navteq, the industrial estates only include the road names.

www.mypos.ie are offering an 'Industrial Estates' POI database but that only includes the names of the estates, not the individual premises within the estates. I'm afraid you'll have to go for the low-tech solution which is a hardcopy map in a spiral bound book of Dublin Industrial Estates (showing the individual premises in each estate) whch is available in the bigger newsagents, haven't seen it around in a few years but I'm sure it's still being updated.

Cyrus

i just want to get to the estate tho, the furry park one shopws up on the map when im near but i couldnt find the address to navigate to it?

coylemj

They're not marked as POIs by Garmin on their maps in the way that railway stations and petrol stations are so either get yourself MapSource and define them as favourites with names that you'll remember or investigate the POIs available on subscription (which includes industrial estates) on http://www.mypois.ie/ - I gave the name incorrectly in the earlier post.

dowtchaboy

Cyrus wrote: »

i just want to get to the estate tho, the furry park one shopws up on the map when im near but i couldnt find the address to navigate to it?

I'm finding the industrial estates thing an annoyance too - even in England I found some towns on the nuvi map yet I couldn't enter them on the address thingy - but - you can select a place to navigate to by browsing the map - drag your finger over it to navigate to where you want to go - press the road or whatever till it beeps then "go" - it will give it some silly name like "road" or "area" or something but who cares - it will guide you there.

If you want to do it in advance eg when planning a trip around a few shops or something you can browse the map, press the location you want to get to, press "save", give it some handy name (Hardly Normals say) and later pick it from your "Recently Found" list.

db.

testicle

coylemj wrote: »

Industrial estates don't use house numbers so you won't be able to navigate to your exact location, just the road. Whatever data the lads in OSi supply to Navteq, the industrial estates only include the road names.

Navteq get their data by driving around, they don't go near the OSI. This used to be the case anyway...

dowtchaboy

testicle wrote: »

Navteq get their data by driving around, they don't go near the OSI. This used to be the case anyway...

Still is, I think. I saw them last year round here, and I ran across TeleAtlas (2 vans and a car) in Belgium last month. That's why many roads are almost spelled correctly - suspect they ask people what the road is called and/or use voice recording, so some roads are spelled wrongly. Presumably they can't cross-check with the OS maps as that would be breach of copyright.

Now that's another topic - why cant the OS sell or supply free the data they have gathered with our taxpayers money to Navteq et al for our benefit? Grrr.... reminds me of grumble number 2 - the tide tables - based on data gathered over hundreds of years by members of the public and the UK Government claims copyright on it ...grrr..
db.

coylemj

Technically the industrial estates are private property so OSi are under no obligation to map them. The local authority doesn't maintain the roads so it would be up to the owners of the estate to digitize the roads data or ask OSi to come in and do it.

What appears to happen is that the major roads within the estate (Park West being a good example) get mapped but not the minor spur roads.

coylemj

dowtchaboy wrote: »

reminds me of grumble number 2 - the tide tables - based on data gathered over hundreds of years by members of the public and the UK Government claims copyright on it ...grrr..
db.

Tide tables are not based on previous observations, they are calculated based on the time of year and the lunar cycle so anyone who produces tide tables is perfectly entitled to claim copyright on the data.

dowtchaboy

coylemj wrote: »

Tide tables are not based on previous observations, they are calculated based on the time of year and the lunar cycle so anyone who produces tide tables is perfectly entitled to claim copyright on the data.

It's not altogether as simple as lunar and solar cycles - there's a good in-depth (way too in-depth!) article in Wikipedia on the subject.

But anyone who produces printed tide tables has to put get permission from and place copyright notices from UKHO (UK Hydrographic Office) on them. Garmin have a tide predictor built in to most of their marine GPS units, even the handheld ones - but they said they cannot offer downloads for UK/Ireland (and maybe all Europe) use because of UKHO copyright.

Are the Harmonic Constants themselves available for purchase?
No. The UKHO does not release the full sets of Harmonic Constants for any port. However, the “abridged” sets of constants (i.e. those published in Part III of Admiralty Tide Tables and intended for use in the SHM software) are available for licensed use. Please contact UKHO Copyright Section for further guidance, e-mail copyright@ukho.gov.uk.

Q. Where can I find tidal predictions for periods longer than 7 days?
UKHO's authoritative publication Admiralty Tide Tables contains a year's predictions and is re-published annually. However, most ports, harbours and havens around the UK publish their tide times for the year in booklet form and these are usually available from local shops etc. Sailing or nautical almanacs, on sale in bookshops and chandlers, reproduce a year's predictions (under licence from UKHO) and the best known of these are usually held by local public libraries.

db.

Didgey

I think it is definitely worth downloading from www.mypois.ie! Usually when a company tells you where they are located they will normally just mention the industrial estate they are in rather than the road they are on....the subscription isn't too expensive and I think in the long run it will save you a lot of time!

Krusty_Clown

Here's Sandyford Business Centre on CN2008:
Sandyford Business Centre is not a searchable tag though.

Didgey

I thought that 2008 was going to be a good year for pois on the Garmin systems but that is definitely not the case....i'd say it's going to be another couple of years until we see any improvement for Ireland and pois!!

Alun

Didgey wrote: »

I thought that 2008 was going to be a good year for pois on the Garmin systems but that is definitely not the case....i'd say it's going to be another couple of years until we see any improvement for Ireland and pois!!

Yes, they're pretty disappointing. I'm not sure though as to the mechanism by which they get into the Garmin maps. Do they get them from Navteq? Do they ask owners of pubs, restaurants etc. to pay for inclusion? Do they just scan the phone book looking for likely entries? It's all a bit unclear. One thing's for certain, for the categories they do have, the information is both seriously out of date and sometimes inaccurate too.

One thing that puzzle me big time is the lack of inclusion of Garda stations. My nuvi 760 has a "Where am I?" screen where I can easily find the nearest petrol stations, hospitals and police stations. If I hit "police station" it tells me the nearest one is (I think .. my wife's nicked mine at the moment, so I can't check!) in Newry, Co. Down!!!! Surely it can't have been too difficult to get hold of that information from the relevant authorities?

TBH I feel a bit pissed off that if I want useful, up-to-date POI's I'm effectively forced to pay a private company another yearly fee for something that I should have had in the first place. Maybe the mypois.ie folks (who appear to have the same postal address as mysatnav.ie .. what a coincidence!) would be better off (financially) doing a deal with Garmin themselves to get their POI's integrated properly with the built-in ones rather than trying to sell them to private individuals.

LegacyUser

Alun, you are right - www.mypois.is is a new service offered by mysatnav. The reason that we have started the service is because of the lack of POIs that are available on sat navs for Ireland, something that affects all GPS systems, whether they are based on Navteq or Tele Atlas mapping.

One of the main reasons why POIs are so poor for Ireland is the lack of a postcode system, the unwillingness of state bodies to provide information freely and the complexity of gathering information. When collecting Garda Station locations, we contacted Phoenix Park and were requested to send a written letter to the Commissioner explaining what we wanted the data for and only then would our request be considered. Navteq, who were the first company to survey Ireland comprehensively, found it to be one of the most difficult countries ever to map (read costly). Futhermore they have a stringent policy on what they include in their maps sets such as POIs, all of which have to be verified by Navteq surveyors. While I am only speculating here I reckon that given the size of the country, small population, costs incurred so far and likelihood of recouping, that may explain the lack of POIs - even the latest 2008 mapping is disappointing for POIs.

So, www.mypois.ie was started to readdress that. Orignally when we commenced this project we wanted to be able to offer the POIs for free - however we quickly learnt that the process of collecting the information followed by accurately geocoding was not only very time consuming but also costly to gather. With no public postcode system, collecting POI data is in fact extremely difficult.

As far as Garmin are concerned, yes we have considered the idea of supplying the POI data direct to them, but unless this is going to result in 30,000 to 40,000 additional GPS sales in Ireland for them, we will remain very much below their level of interest - commercial reality, I'm afraid.

One final point about mapping including POIs - when you buy your GPS the mapping on that system is more than likely 12-18 months old. So a new Garmin nuvi 760 with the latest '2008' mapping is in fact based on Q2, 2007 Navteq maps and this map data is based on surveys conducted in the preceeding months. One of the objectives of mypois is to provide ongoing, regular updates so that POI data is as far as we can make it up to date and accurate without this 12-18 month gap.

Alun

Thanks for explaining the situation John. I'm still a little unclear though as to who exactly provides the POI data on Garmin Devices. Is it Garmin themselves or Navteq, and for commercial enterprises such as restaurants, pubs etc is there some kind of payment involved to be included, in the same way that these kinds of establishments pay to get into guides and telephone directories like Golden Pages etc.?

I take your point though that the lack of a postcode system makes gathering this kind of data difficult. In most countries all it would take would be a quick scan of an online phone directory for a specific category (say police stations) and you'd have all the information you'd need.

Also, and forgive me if I'm wrong here isn't the big disadvantage of any 3rd party POI's, such as your own, that they don't really integrate properly into the overall nuvi POI structure, but are stuck in the Extras menu. So when I use the "Where am I?" feature on my 760 it will still claim that my nearest Police station is in Newry?

LegacyUser

Alun, Garmin do not collect any data - they rely on 3rd parties such as Navteq. As far as I know, Navteq collect POI data themselves. In the past they have used 3rd party resources however they became quiet strict as there were issues regarding accuracy and data quality. Furthermore when they collect this data there is no charge to the commercial enterprises.

With regards integration on the nuvi etc. - our POIs do appear in 'Custom POIs' under 'Extras' and as you point out the 'Where I Am?' function will not pick up our Garda Station locations - other than that the POIs operate in the same way as Garmin's pre-loaded POIs.

Longterm, we are looking at having our POIs integrated into Garmin's standard set. Garmin are interested in unit sales and before entertaining our approach need to see this as a substantial box shifter particularly if it involves their own resources. Also as Garmin are State side and a big unweilding mammoth nothing is going to happen fast. For them, myPOIs is value-add and great if it leads to additional GPS sales without any effort on their part. If the site results in several thousand additional sales perhaps then they might pick up the phone for a chat.

JHMEG

coylemj wrote: »

Technically the industrial estates are private property so OSi are under no obligation to map them.

Private property or not, the OSI map everything. They even have the dimensions of my garden shed.

OTOH, Navteq and TA build all their own maps.

Some house numbering is done using the geodirectory which is a jv between an post and the OSI.