How do you deal with suicide?

nikki 122

well everyone my mate keeps saying he wants to commit suicide and i dont know what to say he has been saying it for a while i dont know if its for attention or genuine please , good advice is desperately needed

ScumLord

Well if he keeps telling everyone it's a plee for help, if he really wanted to kill himself he'd tell no one and do it. Maybe he's hoping someone will step in and make him get the help he needs.

Radharc na Sleibhte

Surely this is a personal issue.
You will get better/more sympathetic advise there OP.

Latchy

The spate of recent suicides in wales recently is so weird and so sad .

Drift

ScumLord wrote: »

if he really wanted to kill himself he'd tell no one and do it.

Thats completely wrong. I'm pretty sure the statistics show that many if not most people who commit suicide mention it beforehand.

OP, would it be possible to get your friend to talk to a counsellor. There are lots of people who are trained to help him with his feelings and over time help him become more content with life. There's lots of different types of counselling and help available. There's also agency's who work to help people like you who are close to the situation.

There's an extensive list of different contact information (websites, email addresses, phone numbers) in the PI Forum Charter.

Mr. Incognito

This should really be moved to PI. Suicide is no joking matter.

Karoma

Moved.
In future, use the Report Post function and don't bitch in-thread.
/end of that discussion.

funloving

If your mate says he wants to suicide he surely needs some help and he should go to a doctor.
What you can do it let him understand that he's not alone, that he's loved and there's people worrying and caring about him.
Believe him, I know what I am talking about...
Try and understand why he wants to do such a bad thing to himself, his reasons...

nikki 122

i know suicide is no joking matter i'm not putting up this thread for fun i genuinely dont know what to do ill bring it to PI so ......

Poppy78

It really does not matter whether he means it or not, he needs help urgently if he is having these thoughts. And you are a very lucky person to hear about it while you can still do something to help. When a friend or family member commits suicide the people around them often feel guilty and regret that they could not help. So here is your chance. He needs to see his GP and they will give him some options. Aware can give great information and free group counciling.

Moss

Your friend should go to the doctor immediately and he will take it from there. A counsellor will not be able to do very much for someone who might well be clinically depressed.

heyjude

Drift wrote: »

Thats completely wrong. I'm pretty sure the statistics show that many if not most people who commit suicide mention it beforehand.

I'm pretty sure that is true too, but NOBODY LISTENS and I do mean NOBODY. Someone doesn't just arrive in a situation whereby Suicide is an option overnight, they've undoubtedly been very unhappy for some time and they've almost certainly mentioned this to someone, but almost certainly the other person wasn't really listening. You see it every day, people spend hours talking, but nobody really listens, so any warning signs are missed or brushed off with glib comments about how things will turn around or aren't that bad. Besides sometimes, things really are impossibly bad for someone and no amount of talking or reassurance can sort it out.

Quite often, a persons' friends(if they have any) and family, don't really consider that suicide is a possibility until it is attempted.

Drift wrote: »

OP, would it be possible to get your friend to talk to a counsellor. There are lots of people who are trained to help him with his feelings and over time help him become more content with life.

There must be limits though to what a counsellor can achieve, for essentially they will try to make the OP see that they are not alone, that their problems can be solved/shared and that they have some hope for the future, but surely sometimes the persons' life really might be dire, for when you have certain hopes and dreams in life and you reach a stage where it is clear that none of them will be realised, then hopelessness takes root and the situation deteriorates from there. What may seem like a small setback to one person, might be a catastrophe for another and without listening carefully, it is often hard to appreciate which it is.

Crannog

Hi Nikki

I think that you need to take your friend seriously. Even if he doesn't have an immediate plan, he's trusted you with this.

Ask him if he is serious and tell him how you feel about that. Tell him what he means to you and suspect that he means to e.g. his friends, family etc.

Don't keep this to yourself either and if he asks you not to tell anyone else DON'T AGREE.

Make him promise not to kill himself. And, make him promise to call someone on a list of people that he decides would be a help to him : brother, father, mother, doctor, samaritans, friend a, friend b, etc., if he feels like breaking that promise to you.

Delaying taking action really does help. He may feel less hopeless after speaking with someone who cares about him. And the samaritans are available 24hrs 365 days, he mustn't give up if they are busy.

And, he needs professional help. First port of call is him doctor who will refer him to a specialist.

Thinking of you.

Drift

heyjude wrote: »

There must be limits though to what a counsellor can achieve

heyjude, I might be way off but it sounds like you're either closely related to someone in this situation or it could be you yourself. I haven't any personal experience with suicide but I'm a firm believer that seeking out professional help is very important. When you get sick you go to a doctor because they're experts in what they do and have seen it before, similarly if your car breaks down you bring it to a mechanic. A suitably trained counsellor has been trained to deal with people who are having suicidal thoughts, they understand better than a lay person (who like you said may be glib about it) the feelings that cause the problem and they can advise what ways of improving your state of mind work and what ways don't.

heyjude wrote: »

essentially they will try to make the OP see that they are not alone, that their problems can be solved/shared and that they have some hope for the future

I'm pretty sure thats exactly what they do. They have the insight and expertise to point the troubled person towards the best route.

heyjude wrote: »

but surely sometimes the persons' life really might be dire, for when you have certain hopes and dreams in life and you reach a stage where it is clear that none of them will be realised, then hopelessness takes root and the situation deteriorates from there.

This is a very worrying thing to say heyjude. No-one's life is so dire that it should be ended. Everybody has hopes and dreams in life and I can guarantee that nobody who ever lived fullfilled all their dreams. This is where I think counselling would be very helpful. A good counsellor will be able to show someone how to deal with the issues that make them feel hopeless and how to address situations so that they realise they are neither alone nor hopeless. Family and friends are very good at doing this too but you just can't beat someone who is professionally trained to do it.

Call Me Jimmy

ScumLord wrote: »

Well if he keeps telling everyone it's a plee for help, if he really wanted to kill himself he'd tell no one and do it. Maybe he's hoping someone will step in and make him get the help he needs.

I would tend to agree that people who continually say outright that they are going to commit suicide are less likely to kill themselves than someone who has rarely (if ever) mentioned it.
People who are constantly saying they are suicidal are looking for attention (I'm not saying wanting attention is good or bad) but they are, and also I believe that they still have hope that things can change.

People who aren't mentioning it/ looking for attention but who feel it are the most likely to be ready to commit suicide because they have gone past the point where they have any hope or think that anyone can help.
That's just my opinion on it though. Although your friend cannot be helped unless he/she wants it.

marthaclark

try not to worry, really it is out of your hands. (no pun intended)

remind yourself, and him, that it's good he's talking, it shows he really does have the strength to face what's going on. But that he needs to talk to someone equipped to help. You might be equipped to listen (you might not, that's ok too), but you aren't equipped to help. He needs to talk to someone that is.

Samaritans, Counsellor, Psychologist, Doctor, Perhaps even a Psychiatrist.

The best thing you can do is point him in these directions. For both your sakes.

marthaclark

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I would tend to agree that people who continually say outright that they are going to commit suicide are less likely to kill themselves than someone who has rarely (if ever) mentioned it.
People who are constantly saying they are suicidal are looking for attention (I'm not saying wanting attention is good or bad) but they are, and also I believe that they still have hope that things can change.

People who aren't mentioning it/ looking for attention but who feel it are the most likely to be ready to commit suicide because they have gone past the point where they have any hope or think that anyone can help.
That's just my opinion on it though. Although your friend cannot be helped unless he/she wants it.

I basically agree with this. Although it's not great practical advice.. Just hopefully correct insight!

Kevster

I hate the way people look down upon those who are simply 'looking for attention'. Yes, they are looking for attention, but why? - Because they are in pain, mentally. I was cast-away by my group of friends years ago because I was viewed as looking for attention by talking about suicide. How fair was that? I wanted help; I reached out to those I thought I could trust.

For the record: NEVER question a person's state of mind when they talk about suicide. They might not intend to actually carry out the act, but that doesn't mean they aren't suffering inside.

marthaclark

Drift wrote: »

This is a very worrying thing to say heyjude. No-one's life is so dire that it should be ended. Everybody has hopes and dreams in life and I can guarantee that nobody who ever lived fullfilled all their dreams. This is where I think counselling would be very helpful. A good counsellor will be able to show someone how to deal with the issues that make them feel hopeless and how to address situations so that they realise they are neither alone nor hopeless. Family and friends are very good at doing this too but you just can't beat someone who is professionally trained to do it.

I think I can see where heyjude's coming from on this point. I guess we all have a right to our own lives.. to choose how we live and ideally how we die. There are just a lot of things in life that complicate this. (And to be honest, sometimes I'm very glad! For example, family, friends, etc. and all their hopes/dreams/love for you.)

We could all take our lives tomorrow (touch wood). And maybe we would be entitled. But that's not much consolation to someone who's suicidal. Or so I'd imagine.

passive

Kevster wrote: »

I hate the way people look down upon those who are simply 'looking for attention'. Yes, they are looking for attention, but why? - Because they are in pain, mentally. I was cast-away by my group of friends years ago because I was viewed as looking for attention by talking about suicide. How fair was that? I wanted help; I reached out to those I thought I could trust.

For the record: NEVER question a person's state of mind when they talk about suicide. They might not intend to actually carry out the act, but that doesn't mean they aren't suffering inside.

WTF? don't question someone's state of mind when they talk about suicide? And even if someone doesn't intend to carry out the act and is just looking for attention, they're entitled to the same kind of concern as someone who's actually going through mental turmoil and contemplating ending their life?

I can't even begin to imagine where you're coming from... Everyone is suffering inside, to some extent or another and many people consider killing themselves. People who threaten it as emotional blackmail, or throw it into conversation as a flippant remark/character development, do not deserve the full effort and concern of the people they're ****ing with.

TBH, if you didn't want to kill yourself, but talk frequently about doing so, your friends made very much the right call. ****ing with people and exaggerating one's problems for dramatic effect is twisted and wrong and unfair and inconsiderate and oh god I'm having flashbacks from being 16...

To OP; refer him to help, discuss it with other friends and see if he's told them all too or genuinely confided in you... What age is he, by the way?

marthaclark

passive wrote: »

WTF? don't question someone's state of mind when they talk about suicide? And even if someone doesn't intend to carry out the act and is just looking for attention, they're entitled to the same kind of concern as someone who's actually going through mental turmoil and contemplating ending their life?

I can't even begin to imagine where you're coming from... Everyone is suffering inside, to some extent or another and many people consider killing themselves. People who threaten it as emotional blackmail, or throw it into conversation as a flippant remark/character development, do not deserve the full effort and concern of the people they're ****ing with.

to be fair.. i think he's pointing out the reasons why someone shouldn't write off an individual who says they are suicidal, because suicide is as serious as it comes. Doesn't sound like he's endorsing any crying wolf for the sake of hurting or emotionally blackmailing others.

That's my read of it anyway. This bickering doesn't really help the OP though does it?

Call Me Jimmy

Kevster wrote: »

I hate the way people look down upon those who are simply 'looking for attention'. Yes, they are looking for attention, but why? - Because they are in pain, mentally. I was cast-away by my group of friends years ago because I was viewed as looking for attention by talking about suicide. How fair was that? I wanted help; I reached out to those I thought I could trust.

For the record: NEVER question a person's state of mind when they talk about suicide. They might not intend to actually carry out the act, but that doesn't mean they aren't suffering inside.

If that was directed at me, ye should have read my post properly, I specifically said looking for attention wasn't inherently good or bad.

Dr. Loon

Kevster wrote: »

I hate the way people look down upon those who are simply 'looking for attention'. Yes, they are looking for attention, but why? - Because they are in pain, mentally. I was cast-away by my group of friends years ago because I was viewed as looking for attention by talking about suicide. How fair was that? I wanted help; I reached out to those I thought I could trust.

For the record: NEVER question a person's state of mind when they talk about suicide. They might not intend to actually carry out the act, but that doesn't mean they aren't suffering inside.

What age were you? Yes, it is important. There is no "cry for help". Someone who wants to commit suicide will just do it, and that's that. A cry for help is simply a failed attempt. I have serious issues with suicide. My niece hung herself. It has ****ed my family up big time. Every single member.

She was 16, and I always come back to thinking that had she lived a few more years she would have realised the stupiditiy of what she was thinking. Too late now of course but, I just believe she would have been happy now, with more knowledge and experience behind her.

I recall being 15 and talking and thinking about suicide, but it was never really that bad, therefore I'm still alive. At 20 I thought, "Jesus. I can't believe I thought of killing myself". I now understand I was just an adolescent fool.

I think my niece was also an adolescent fool, but she followed through. No warning. I think my point is that it's pretty much undetectable, and if someone is talking about it alot, then yes, pay them attention, but tell them to cop on. At the end of the day the talkers are just looking for a reaction.

Please note, I'm not looking for sorry for your loss type stuff here, I just think "cries for help" are bull****, this is My personal opinion.

Drift

marthaclark wrote: »

I think I can see where heyjude's coming from on this point. I guess we all have a right to our own lives.. to choose how we live and ideally how we die.

I know it's off topic but I think you've hit a very important point martha. I read before that in many cases people who feel suicidal see their death as the only thing in their life they can control. The thing that everything else is beyond their capacity to control and hence by "controlling" their death they are proving to whoever that they can control something.

I think it's very important for people who feel this way to realise that although things seem overwhelming to us all at some stage in our lives, that situation is fleeting, and with help from those around us we can get through them and out the other side.

OP it's very important that even if you can't help your friend sort through his feelings you can still let him know you feel for him and will help him to find help if and where he needs it.

b3t4

OP, You need to tell your friend that you are not a professional in this matter and will not be able to offer them the help they need. The best thing you can do is find information for this person on counselling services available in your area.

Your friend can't expect you to be anything more than their friend.

A

Victor

While there are "attention whores" out there, there are also people in genuine need of help, whether suicidal or not, who literally have to cry for help, whether verbally or by acting out.

Dr. Loon wrote: »

There is no "cry for help".

I think you will find a variety of different cries for help, some of which aren't recognisable at the time or possibly at all.

b3t4 wrote: »

Your friend can't expect you to be anything more than their friend.

Hopefully, friends stand by each other in time of trouble.

Moss wrote: »

Your friend should go to the doctor immediately and he will take it from there. A counsellor will not be able to do very much for someone who might well be clinically depressed.

Doctors and counsellors are different tools in a toolbag. I'm not sure if it is your intention, but be careful of dismissing counselling. That said, yes going to a doctor is a very good idea in such circumstances.

sam34

Kevster wrote: »

I was cast-away by my group of friends years ago because I was viewed as looking for attention by talking about suicide. How fair was that?

i know someone who ruthlessly threatened that he would commit suicide if his partner ever left him, when she finally plucked up the courage to leave what was a very smothering relationship (for other reasons), he phoned her up and threatened to kill himself if she didnt take him back. he would then regularly text her things like "goodbye" and "sorry". he has never attempted to kill himself and i believe he never will, but i watched him destroy that woman because of his manipulative threats. she finally got strong enough to cut him out of her life.

Kevster

In that particular case, sam34, it is clear that the guy has huge problems other than the break-up with his girlfriend. What she should have done was call the police or call a family member and leave the issue with them. She should dissociate herself from him as much as possible and ignore all attempts he makes to contact her.

sam34

agree totally kevster, i posted the story to highlight how sometimes people have to walk away from those who use suicide as a threat and as a tool to manipulate.

Eviledna

OP, would you consider showing that person this thread in order to solidify how worried you are about them, and to show them that there are others that have not only been in that situation, but that the general consensis is that to get help is the best road.

From personal experience, getting help works better than anyone thats in that state of mind can ever imagine. It is the ultimate grasp of control, throwing down the gauntlet of pride/various other emotions to discover a new way of thinking and a better quality of life.

Talk to your friend, and be prepared to help them get help. Look at the resources above, and perhaps ring the samaritans yourself and explain the situation. They will also help you help him.
Best of luck.

Bluebells

All you can do is be there as a friend and take them at face value. The risk is too much to not believe them. There are a few people who may threaten to end their life as an act of manipulation, but im guessing there are far far more who are genuine. Ive know some people who talk about suiside and I have seen the pain they are in. Its so sad. These people are reaching out for help, and you should thank god you have been given the chance to try and help, instead of getting that phone call in the middle of the night. Some people will say something befor, and others wont.

As above, say you are there for them, how much you care about them aswell as friends and family. Suggest councilling, doctor (antidepressants) aware and other organisations. Do some research yourself and give them leaflets, numbers, info etc. Tell them to ring anytime, even in the middle of the night, give a list of peoples numbers to ring when the going gets tough (yours, samaritans, family, friends, organisations, doctors, counsillors etc).

Good luck.

aislingm137

well, i dont know but suicide is an awful thing to have on your mind. if i was you i would try to talk to you friend and have a heart to heart with him and maybe just showing him that he is loved and appreciated. i would really adivise to see a g.p. as soon as possible and to inquire about thearpy to get the the root of his problems.

smiler26

My advice is to err on the side of caution i.e. take it seriously. None of us are qualified or knowledgeable enough to do anything besides.

I can't believe some of the previous posters who say to ignore this, or it is just a cry for attention. Even if it is just a cry for attention, if it is ignored, it's a dangerous situation.

Anyways, my advice is to speak to your friends parents, or to speak to your friend and offer some support i.e. call the samaritans/go to GP and go with them for support etc.

Hope it all works out.