Asked to leave pub because of dress code

Snapper1

Evening all, just back from the pub and thought i'd recount my night.

Myself plus three friends got into a certain pub in Drumcondra around 7pm to watch a match. The pub was open but there was no bouncers on the door.

We each got served a couple of drinks and enjoyed the game. At 9ish, we decided to hit the road and I went over to another group of friends to say goodbye. While I was doing this, a bouncer approached and said "I don't know how you got in here but we've a dress code and you'll have to leave because you're in tracksuit bottoms".

I was a bit taken aback but said ok and told him I was just leaving. He walked off and I turned back to my mates. He then came straight back and said I had 5 minutes to leave. I again replied fine.

Now I'm not in tears at home worrying about this, I'd just like to know the standards, if any, a pub can enforce. And what legislation/legal precedent do they have to back it up? For instance, I wasn't refused admission, I was asked to get out. Is this the same as "we reserve the right to refuse admission"?

I realise the whole area is fairly ambiguous and I'm not looking to drag it all the way to the ECHR but I'd be interested in any advice anyone would have...

Maximilian

I wouldn't have thought that a dress code is discrimination per se, since it applies to everyone equally.

smcelhinney

Except impoverished people, ergo, discrimination.

IANAL, but as far as I know you cannot be ejected/refused entry based on dress code. There are many urban legends surfacing about lawsuits against places that discriminate. The standard line from establishments tends to be that it wasnt discrimination against dress code, moreso, behaviour, and since this is personal opinion, cant really be defended or upheld in court.

Unfortunately the establishment tends to win out on this.

Still doesnt stop me trying to get into my local every so often, wearing nothing but a bin liner.

Thirdfox

Hmm - isn't someone in this situation an open licensee of the proprietor? In which case they case revoke that license to remain on the premises on a whim (unless you had a binding contract with them already - by buying a drink one could argue you have the contractual right to peaceful enjoyment of that drink before leaving...)

seamus

smcelhinney wrote: »

Except impoverished people, ergo, discrimination.

How is that relevant? An "impoverished" person is capable of wearing whatever clothes they want, the same as everyone else. "No tracksuits" is just as valid as "Please wear clothes" or "No runners allowed". Besides, "being poor" is probably not an illegal case of discrimination. Technically a business may be able to legally refuse entry to someone on the basis that they were impoverished/homeless/skint.

Unless you can reasonably prove that there was some other reason for asking you to leave, then there are no grounds here for discrimination.

I'm not sure exactly what the story is with public houses. Like any other business, there is an implied "open doors" policy where any member of the public is allowed to enter. However like any other business, they probably retain the right to remove that permission and ask the person to leave - it is still private property after all.

Maximilian

seamus wrote: »

How is that relevant? An "impoverished" person is capable of wearing whatever clothes they want, the same as everyone else. "No tracksuits" is just as valid as "Please wear clothes" or "No runners allowed".

Plus, there are tracksuits out there that are very expensive and beyond the price range of the less wealthy. Having said that, we all know the reason for banning tracksuits is to keep out tracksuit wearers because um..how shall I put this, persons of a particular demographic persuasion tend to wear nothing but. Good luck to anyone trying to prove that though.

CantGetNoSleep

On the other hand, would people argue that a gym refusing entry because they are wearing jeans rather than a tracksuit is the same situation?

LaVidaLoca

they can let in/not let in, whoever they want, subject to certain laws to do with racism/discriminiation.

Part of the skill in making a good bar or club is not letting everybody in, you only let in people that look like they "get it", thus making the club have some sort of an ethos or vibe. Plus you tend to let in as many women as want to come, on the assumption that, if a club is full of women, the men will come anyway.

The 'no trainers' thing is largely a way of having a polite way of saying to somebody "You're not cool enough" "You're not good-looking enough" or "You're likely to be a problem while drunk."

Of course I dont like it much either, but it'd be like asking Karl Lagerfeld why he discriminates against ugly people when making clothes. To which his answer would no doubt be "Um, Im a fashion designer."

Maximilian

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

On the other hand, would people argue that a gym refusing entry because they are wearing jeans rather than a tracksuit is the same situation?

Sure and with the same answer. If an establishment of whatever kind were to bring in a rule that you can only get in if you are wearing a panda costume, its a matter for them. The point is that it applies to everyone without discrimination. Now the effect of that might be that non-Pandaphiles are implicitly discriminated against but its not easy to bring that within the legislation I would have thought.

Thirdfox

I like Pandas...not sure about wearing a Panda suit though.

On topic - I think it's pretty much settled that yes management can eject you for clear breach of rules that they inform you about.

Of course you can also ask to see this rule on the dress code...if the bouncer just made it up...

briantwin

I was just wondering, but I have witnessed before where the bouncers turn to someone at the door and say "No runners or tracksuits bud!" And then refuse entry. Only to have one of the "regulars" saunter out in a pair of blindingly white runners and a pair of tracksuit bottoms for a smoke and not a word is said. Now if the rule is applicable to everyone and there are exceptions made for "regulars" what would the legal standing be then?
I was standing outside having a smoke when i witnessed this happening. When the bouncer was asked about it his response was "he's a regular ,you're not so **** off".

Maximilian

I imagine in that scenario, if you could prove it, you might just have a case.

Overheal

The same way a fancy restaurant can refuse someone entry for wearing a jumper and jeans, I see no reason why a bar or club cant refuse entry on a general filter to tracksuits.

Snapper1 wrote:

I wasn't refused admission, I was asked to get out. Is this the same as "we reserve the right to refuse admission"?

If I take off my shirt and shoes once admitted into a pub, you're implying I should be allowed to stay?

briantwin

Maximilian wrote: »

I imagine in that scenario, if you could prove it, you might just have a case.

I suppose the only way you could prove it would be to film it on your phone or something and film the bouncer refusing you due to the dress code but also capturing Nike Air Pay no Tax walking into the pub as well. I wonder what the managements response to that would be.