Flexi Time Joke

IanCurtis

I work for one of the bigger insurance companies in Dublin.

We are entitled to flexi-time, which I make the most of by arriving between 9:30 and 10:00 (10:00 to 4:00 been the core hours you must be there for). this enables me to miss the bulk of the rush hour traffic and shorten my commute considerably. I leave between half five and six, again missing the traffic.

I know for a fact that those who arrive at 8:00 and leave at bang on 4:00 are more highly regarded than those who arrive after half nine, despite the fact they do no work up until 9:00am when the managers (not on flexi) arrive. They also walk out the door at 4 on the dot, usually meaning they have been preparing to leave since 3:45!!!

In the days of clogged-with-traffic Dublin, why has the managers firstly not cottoned onto this fact that they are abusing the flexi system and why are they given better performance reviews?

Are my company bosses living in the dark ages or is this commonplace in offices?

I'd love to know.

PS. I'm NEVER gonna go in for 8am as I'd have to get up at 6:15 rather than 8:00....I'm not a security guard.

AARRRGH

Yeah, I know what you mean. Time keeping is one of those basic things which make people look good. Managers should know better.

Mr. Presentable

IanCurtis wrote: »

I know for a fact that those who arrive at 8:00 and leave at bang on 4:00 are more highly regarded than those who arrive after half nine, despite the fact they do no work up until 9:00am when the managers (not on flexi) arrive. They also walk out the door at 4 on the dot, usually meaning they have been preparing to leave since 3:45!!!

Yeah, they're on flexi too. How, if you don't come in until 90 minutes after them, do you know what work they do up to 09:00? They're more highly regarded because they are among the minority who can take the trouble to get out of bed early. Anyone can get up late! Don't take this as a personal affront, it's not, merely an observation from one whose business is flexitime

stepbar

Thats why they're Managers...... they know no better in fairness. All forms of logic do not apply.

dazberry

IanCurtis wrote: »

In the days of clogged-with-traffic Dublin, why has the managers firstly not cottoned onto this fact that they are abusing the flexi system and why are they given better performance reviews?

I've worked for people like that - they're generally idiots. Where I work was like that - it was 9 to 5 so you worked 9 to 5. Things changed - (incl the psycho IT manager moving) and things are much more flexible now - its suits me better to do 9.30ish - to 6.30 - the 5.30 to 6.30 hour is golden (for s/w development anyway).

D.

IanCurtis

nipplenuts wrote: »

Yeah, they're on flexi too. How, if you don't come in until 90 minutes after them, do you know what work they do up to 09:00? They're more highly regarded because they are among the minority who can take the trouble to get out of bed early. Anyone can get up late! Don't take this as a personal affront, it's not, merely an observation from one whose business is flexitime

I have been needed in for meetings etc at 8am from time to time and observed this group of people, usually in the canteen from 8 to 9 or reading the metro.

I can assure you on this, there is no work done by them until 9am.

"They take the trouble to get out of bed earlier"...are you a manager? This is the crapóla I am talking about you foolish person.

Re-read my post please before falling into the exact trap I am suggesting.

Oh Jesus, I've just noticed you said you're business is flexi time....what hope does this country have? Dear oh dear....1970s thinking still rules.

IanCurtis

dazberry wrote: »

I've worked for people like that - they're generally idiots. Where I work was like that - it was 9 to 5 so you worked 9 to 5. Things changed - (incl the psycho IT manager moving) and things are much more flexible now - its suits me better to do 9.30ish - to 6.30 - the 5.30 to 6.30 hour is golden (for s/w development anyway).

D.

So it is city wide then....how disappointing!

Seems the management are still living in the 1970s

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

IanCurtis wrote: »

I have been needed in for meetings etc at 8am from time to time and observed this group of people, usually in the canteen from 8 to 9 or reading the metro.

I can assure you on this, there is no work done by them until 9am.

"They take the trouble to get out of bed earlier"...are you a manager? This is the crapóla I am talking about you foolish person.

Re-read my post please before falling into the exact trap I am suggesting.

Oh Jesus, I've just noticed you said you're business is flexi time....what hope does this country have? Dear oh dear....1970s thinking still rules.

What's the big deal? If someone I know has found a way of doing an hour;s less work than me, power to him! As long as he;s not doign 8 hours work less, in which case I agree (as will said manager).

Green-eyed monster, meet Ian; Ian, meet...

IanCurtis

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

What's the big deal? If someone I know has found a way of doing an hour;s less work than me, power to him! As long as he;s not doign 8 hours work less, in which case I agree (as will said manager).

Green-eyed monster, meet Ian; Ian, meet...

It seems strange that HR offer a good option such as flexitime, but the middle managers haven't grasped the concept of it.

But as mentioned, they are middle management and indeed have no concept of logic.

If doing less work than everyone else makes someone proud, well should they be working in your company at all? It is not the civil service or school....they should be working, no?

GoneShootin

IanCurtis wrote: »

"They take the trouble to get out of bed earlier"...are you a manager? This is the crapóla I am talking about you foolish person.

Oh Jesus, I've just noticed you said you're business is flexi time....what hope does this country have? Dear oh dear....1970s thinking still rules.

Don't get personal IanCurtis - other peoples' opinions are as valid as yours.

Like dazberry, I work in a relaxed environment when it comes to issues of time keeping. The people that matter are not ignorant to the ways of the modern world, however I do try to be in for 9ish and clock out for 5.30 ish, though it's usually on the side beyond that 5.30 mark.

One thing that does interfere with my grand plan is working from home. While Flexi-Time, even not officially policy, is acceptable - working from home causing untold problems depending on perspectives. It happened me once - I couldn't get to work through no real fault of my own. So I had two options, take the day off and relax and let my team in the ****, or work from home. I actually got more done that day than I ever did while in the office.

But, while my IT colleagues accepted the situation and rolled with it, members of other departments took a backwards view of it. "Hmph, if he can work from home why can't I". Apples and oranges! Course I didn't explain my reasons for working from home to everyone, as I didn't feel I had to. Obviously some folk still have issues on that front.

IanCurtis

I think IT departments are more progressive because everyone needs to be of a certain qualification standard, whereas in Finance or HR any old muppet can work in there and have a say in what goes on.

Also, they tend to be more forward thinking than their 1970s counterparts (not mentioning any names above)

I work in Finance by the way, for another 2 months :-)

dresden8

Where I work the managers think those who stay late are putting in more effort. Usually because they are not on flexi and when they look for somebody at 5.30 they like to find someone there, even if they are only surfing the net. anybody leaving at 4, having arrived at 8.30, is usually given the line "Half-day?" as they exit the building.

But you're not paranoid, managers everywhere are short-sighted, self obsessed psychopaths.

IanCurtis

dresden8 wrote: »

Where I work the managers think those who stay late are putting in more effort. Usually because they are not on flexi and when they look for somebody at 5.30 they like to find someone there, even if they are only surfing the net. anybody leaving at 4, having arrived at 8.30, is usually given the line "Half-day?" as they exit the building.

But you're not paranoid, managers everywhere are short-sighted, self obsessed psychopaths.

dresden, get me an application form please?

Anything to get away from these clock watchers. Sounds like a good set-up you have there.

stepbar

dresden8 wrote: »

But you're not paranoid, managers everywhere are short-sighted, self obsessed psychopaths.

I kinda agree with that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

IanCurtis wrote: »

I think IT departments are more progressive because everyone needs to be of a certain qualification standard, whereas in Finance or HR any old muppet can work in there and have a say in what goes on.

Also, they tend to be more forward thinking than their 1970s counterparts (not mentioning any names above)

I work in Finance by the way, for another 2 months :-)

IT depts. are mini-****ing-Hitlers the lot of them. These guys are the ones who piss me off because the go out of their way to piss you off and inhibit the positive points of employment.

Whereas the dossers don't bother me. They got a break, lucky them. It's not my company, I'm not their supervisor.

Is it worng to take advantage of the middle-management short-sightedness? Hell, I'd say most of us have done it.

IanCurtis

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

IT depts. are mini-****ing-Hitlers the lot of them. These guys are the ones who piss me off because the go out of their way to piss you off and inhibit the positive points of employment.

Whereas the dossers don't bother me. They got a break, lucky them. It's not my company, I'm not their supervisor.

Is it worng to take advantage of the middle-management short-sightedness? Hell, I'd say most of us have done it.

I agree with what you're saying but in terms of flexi time, they're much better than other departments.

The mgt in our company are stuck in the civil service ways. The fact they drive to work doesn't help them understand the commuting situation. Funny thing is our director takes the Luas, probably why he's the one making the decisions that matter and they're watching the coatstands :rolleyes:

Mr. Presentable

IanCurtis wrote: »

you foolish person.

I am going resist reporting this

Mr. Presentable

IanCurtis wrote: »

I have been needed in for meetings etc at 8am from time to time and observed this group of people, usually in the canteen from 8 to 9 or reading the metro.

I can assure you on this, there is no work done by them until 9am.

"They take the trouble to get out of bed earlier"...are you a manager? This is the crapóla I am talking about you foolish person.

Re-read my post please before falling into the exact trap I am suggesting.

Oh Jesus, I've just noticed you said you're business is flexi time....what hope does this country have? Dear oh dear....1970s thinking still rules.

Look, if you are productive for all the time you are at work I salute you, Sir. Flexi allows various work start times - they choose early, you choose later. If the management have no issue with whether people do their work or not, then why should you? Like it or not, when an external audit is done of the attendance records, those who come in early will be viewed more favourably than those who come in later.

IanCurtis

nipplenuts wrote: »

Like it or not, when an external audit is done of the attendance records, those who come in early will be viewed more favourably than those who come in later.

So for someone who works in this area, your answer to my question "are the management out of touch with commuting situations and the flexi-time facility, for still looking favourably on those who arrive earlier but do less work", your answer is...wait for it...

'that's the way it is....like it or not'

You should go on Questions and Answers with those powers of discussion and debate, but I fear the viewing figures might drop off slightly.

hunnymonster

IanCurtis wrote: »

...I know for a fact that those who arrive at 8:00 and leave at bang on 4:00 are more highly regarded than those who arrive after half nine...

For the sake of some objectivity in the discussion, could you please clarify how you know this fact?

IanCurtis wrote: »

PS. I'm NEVER gonna go in for 8am as I'd have to get up at 6:15 rather than 8:00....I'm not a security guard.

I'm not quite sure where a security guard comes into it?

GoneShootin

@ Ikky Poo2 and IanCurtis

Don't start a flame war. Keep to the topic at hand. This is not a DEPT vs DEPT debate, and your incorrect generalizations on both.

I know for a FACT that our Finance and HR departments have in their midsts extremely qualified and talented people that work extremely hard. Similarly, our IT department of which I am a member are recognised by internal staff and external customers as being pro actively helpful and courteous at all times.

These traits above are not exclusive to where I work. There are good and bad examples for any company anywhere in the world. For example I went mental trying to find someone in DELL tech support to help me with a certain problem. It was a pity that I had to wade through the **** before I got to the gold, but that person was one of the best technical support reps I have ever delt with, and he went out of his way to make sure that I had my problem sorted.

Perhaps in the places where you two work, you have the bad examples. But quit the generalizations.

@IanCurtis, consider this your last warning prior to infraction, and my recommend to my fellow mods to do same, as you're starting to piss me off.

IanCurtis

OK no more posts from me so

Zulu

I'm middle managment in IT. We have flexi time. I don't "clock watch" per say but I will tell you some truths:
1) Dossers tend to keep irregular hours.
2) Tallented and productive people come in early and leave late.

The funny thing is, you don't notice someones hours until after you notice, they keep letting you down.
You notice that the task you needed for today isn't available for your 9am meeting, and there is no sign of the person.
You notice them sauntering in some time after 10.
You notice the guy who you keep turning to to clean up the mess is there.

Just an observation. Personally when it was me, I was in between 10 and 10:30, but never really got out early. Flexi time for me was an excuse for a company to get more hours out of you. I never felt like I wasn't getting any respect, but then, I always go my work done and I was very proud of what I did.
I know I value people who work hard, and only care about their hours when I notice someone doing lots - am I piling on too many tasks, or when I'm being constantly let down and fed BS excuses.
- my 2c

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

GoneShootin wrote: »

@ Ikky Poo2 and IanCurtis

Don't start a flame war. Keep to the topic at hand. This is not a DEPT vs DEPT debate, and your incorrect generalizations on both.

I know for a FACT that our Finance and HR departments have in their midsts extremely qualified and talented people that work extremely hard. Similarly, our IT department of which I am a member are recognised by internal staff and external customers as being pro actively helpful and courteous at all times.

These traits above are not exclusive to where I work. There are good and bad examples for any company anywhere in the world. For example I went mental trying to find someone in DELL tech support to help me with a certain problem. It was a pity that I had to wade through the **** before I got to the gold, but that person was one of the best technical support reps I have ever delt with, and he went out of his way to make sure that I had my problem sorted.

Perhaps in the places where you two work, you have the bad examples. But quit the generalizations.

@IanCurtis, consider this your last warning prior to infraction, and my recommend to my fellow mods to do same, as you're starting to piss me off.

Apologies, not my intention to flame, just my (wide ranging) experience. IT do tend to be well qualified, hard-working varies from place ot place, it's the mentality I was talking about. Just my experience.

Mr. Presentable

IanCurtis wrote: »

So for someone who works in this area, your answer to my question "are the management out of touch with commuting situations and the flexi-time facility, for still looking favourably on those who arrive earlier but do less work", .

Sorry, Ian. You quote the question as asked, but I cannot find the above phrased anywhere in your posts.

Your issue is productivity, not time keeping.

AARRRGH

Zulu wrote: »

I'm middle managment in IT. We have flexi time. I don't "clock watch" per say but I will tell you some truths:
1) Dossers tend to keep irregular hours.
2) Tallented and productive people come in early and leave late.

In my experience, middle management think people who come in early and leave late are talented and productive, but the reality is they doss just as much as everyone else.

/No offence

Zulu

dublindude wrote: »

In my experience, middle management think people who come in early and leave late are talented and productive, but the reality is they doss just as much as everyone else.

/No offence

none taken. If you come in an hour earlier and leave and hour later, you are working 2 more hours. If you are dossing as much ans anyone else, you're still putting in (avg work effort)+2hrs.

dresden8

IanCurtis wrote: »

dresden, get me an application form please?

Anything to get away from these clock watchers. Sounds like a good set-up you have there.

It's called the Civil Service. I am management, but MY management are arseholes.

GoneShootin

Zulu wrote: »

none taken. If you come in an hour earlier and leave and hour later, you are working 2 more hours. If you are dossing as much ans anyone else, you're still putting in (avg work effort)+2hrs.

Hmmmzmzmzmmzmz.

Quality over quantity in my books. Someone that has to come in an hour early and leave an hour late is in my books not managing their time effectively. Also there may be a culture in place where people are "expected" to keep to this or similar way of working - which is complete nonsense.

Working for a living is such a tedious affair!

pow wow

If the managers leave early they might wonder how much work the late-stayers are doing, I know it was always like that wherever I've worked. As not all business have flexi-time maybe the ones who come in early are seen as being more....I can't think of a word exactly but they can get more done as regards dealing with other companies (i.e. if everyone you deal with closes at say 5pm, you're going to be doing more internal/admin stuff after 5pm).

Sometimes core hours don't adequately reflect business needs so if it makes more sense for people to be in 9-5 rather than 10-6, that may be why you perceive you're getting the cold shoulder so to speak. If you're happy you're doing your work though and you aren't suffering any quantifiable disadvantage I can't really see why you're too bothered though tbh.

Zulu

GoneShootin wrote: »

Hmmmzmzmzmmzmz.

Quality over quantity in my books.

Of course, but if you're only coming in for 5 hours and "dossing" for 2 you can't expect to be heralded as a model employee.

Look this can go round in circles, but all I'm saying is - if you are good at your job, no one will be minding your clock.

GoneShootin

Zulu wrote: »

if you are good at your job, no one will be minding your clock.

On that we can all agree I'm sure.

BostonB

The amount of time someone spends at work, be it early or late, often bears no relation to how productive they are. If a company is serious about productivity they'll have some metrics in place to track it.

Mrs. MacGyver

Most people in my section come in at 8.30 and stay usually till 4. we find the system great as from 8.30 to 9.30 we can catch up on answereing queries before the general public/members in other section of the Dept. start ringing, That hour is a blessing for clearing the workload, Also the day and a half worked up means i can have a long weekend at home once a month.

Trapattoni

In a general sense I have to agree with Zulu.

I personally prefer to start early especially (but not necessarily) if it means finishing up a bit early some days.

From my experience,

1) I can well imagine some are looked upon favourably for consistently being in early. While I also know there must be colleagues of yours (this happens everywhere) that take advantage of this time between 8 and 9 I also know there are also commited people in your workplace who choose to actually work this hour (these are the people looked upon more favourably long term but yes being in early and being consistent with it is a good thing - getting up out of bed early alone takes discipline for a start)

2) I have worked with a number of Middle Management in the past and present and must admit there has been one or two that have'nt cut it whatsoever. What I do recommend though is that you don't underestimate what they actually know - Managers tend to know a lot more about your performance than you realise and sometimes they choose (usually to make life easier) not to clamp down on those being a little lazy - However if a time comes where this "lazy" person is causing one too many problems I think you will find in a lot of cases life at work becomes pretty hard....what im saying is dont necessarily assume youre managers dont know youre a better employee than the others.

3) Last of all and no offence but I tend to have reservations about a thread like this , OP IanCurtis fair enough there might be a couple of issues surrounding your colleagues commitment but unless you are their supervisor and/or they are affecting your performance this should not concern you. Again from my experience both with myself and those around me - there is always going to be dossers, lazy colleagues and people who just wanna come in, do their shift,not care about their job and go home - These people really don't matter to the "career driven" person...in fact this should benefit you In the long run, if you really do exceed in your role it will soon become obvious how much of a gap there is between yourself and the 'dossers'

I think this is your underlying issue, you feel unappreciated. If you work hard enough - you'll get recognition. If you're working hard enough as it is and not getting recognition - maybe you need to look elsewhere to progress some more.

Best of luck anyway