Big 4 Jobs

Blackthorn1011

Will I have difficultly getting recruited with any of the Big 4 with a Bachelor of Business (in accounting) from CIT? Or will i be looking at doing a masters?
Im in my third (out of 4) year.

Any info would be much appriciated.

applehunter

Depends on your final result and your performance over your degree.

Also a good mark in English in your Leaving is favourable!

Blackthorn1011

Cheers, I've a good bit of part time and summer work experience in a small firm, I'm presuming this will also work to my advantage...

Running Bing

Blackthorn1011 wrote: »

Cheers, I've a good bit of part time and summer work experience in a small firm, I'm presuming this will also work to my advantage...

That will definately work in your advantage but dont just concentrate on the Big 4! Mazars, Grant Thornton, BDO all seem like excellent set ups.


Dont just focus on work and study either. Make sure you have some pretty impressive extra-currics i.e. volunteer work, event organising, president of a society.

There is no point in bull****ing you, there are people going for these jobs with top top leaving cert results and top degrees from the top uni's and its gonna be tough to stand out.

Now that doesnt mean they are any better than you or will be better at the job but the Big 4 need to distinguish candidates some way so its only natural they value those things. As you dont have that(how did ya do in the leaving?) you will need to distinguish yourself some other way. The work experience is a great start but you will need more to really stand out amongst all those big names.

Of course it goes without saying you will also need very good marks in your degree. Good luck and remember there are plenty of other opportunities around outside those four firms, so dont get to hung up on it(If you have your heart set on it and miss out you still have an excellent chance of working for a big 4 firm after your qualified).

Babybing

Babybing wrote: »

(If you have your heart set on it and miss out you still have an excellent chance of working for a big 4 firm after your qualified).

Absolutely. It appears that Big 4 are very keen for recently qualified ACA's, especially in Audit. So dont stress over WHERE you do you training, its only AFTER your training that you will truly begin to specialise and forge a careeer path.

Mr. Incognito

I'm in a big 4- Internships are the way to go it seems for jobs in here. Apply for a summer internship.

Louth Man

I got offers from Big 4 and BDO (curently doing Masters).

I wasn't expecting to get them, so there does seem be plenty of jobs out there.

Here is my profile:

1. Did grand, maybe above average in Leaving
2. From up the country but did B.Comm in UCD. Got a 2.1. All in all grades were average I'd say.
3. Was involved in one or two societies there, this is a great talking point, and is can always be exagerrated a bit. I was a lowly PRO in a political society but it prompted interest.

They do, apparently, have a bias against ITs - this is natural, if unfair. The big 4 are mostly Dublin based and most of the current employees are products of UCD, DCU and the like. Having said that, I know a good few from ITs who did get through so you never know how much weight they attribute these things.

One word of advice, and something I noticed among the very small amount who didn't get an offer in UCD: be professional but show some personality, a little bit of humour say, just natural banter.

Good Luck!

Hanley

ND 1978 wrote: »

Absolutely. It appears that Big 4 are very keen for recently qualified ACA's, especially in Audit. So dont stress over WHERE you do you training, its only AFTER your training that you will truly begin to specialise and forge a careeer path.

That seems to be very true. I've been looking at alot of audit senior/manager positions with big 4 firms recently (jsut out of curiosity like) and it seems like once you've top 10 or even experience then you'd be considered.

From my own experience of the milkrounds, it's unpredictable as to who gets interviews and who doesn't. I had a first in first year, 2.1 in second, and thus far am working off a first, but I didn't get ANY top 4 interviews.

I did end up going with BDO tho so I think I'm in a really good position., I start in October. I'll get the chance to work with indigenous firms, entrepreneurial owner managed businesses AND multi-nats and hopefully avoid being pigeon holed into a specific sector. All this while working with one of the biggest firms in the world.

Don't just look at the Big 4. BDO, Grant Thornthan, Mazars et all are definately worth consideration too.

The CCAinsider

Try not to fixate on big 4. The mid tier firms would tell you that you will only be dealing with people who mind businesses for the decision maker in the US if you work in the big 4. With mid tier you will be dealing with the decision makers here in Ireland. Big 4 will offer great training but you can get pidgin holed if you are not careful. BDO, GT and all of the mid tier are excellent firms to train with and offer the same international mobility as the big 4. I am not suggesting that you turn down a big 4 offer, with careful career and training planning you are likely to do better in the long run with a big 4 training, but you could do worse if you don’t manage the training process and get plenty of diverse assignments. You are likely to get broader exposure in a mid tier firm, you could be in audit one week and tax the next and then a special project the week after. In the big 4 you could spend 3 years on one client audit.

All of the firms are looking for interpersonal skills, a 2.1 or even first class degree is not as important as somebody who can communicate (debating society) can work in a group (group sports or activities). Accountancy is about people not numbers. You will need a 2.1 to get called for interview unless you have listed excellent interpersonal skills on your CV. And if you have no interpersonal skills listed you may not be called with a first class degree. There is a huge shortage of accountants in Ireland and the top ten this year are recruiting 800 graduates. You should not have a problem.

Running Bing

Hanley wrote: »

That seems to be very true. I've been looking at alot of audit senior/manager positions with big 4 firms recently (jsut out of curiosity like) and it seems like once you've top 10 or even experience then you'd be considered.

From my own experience of the milkrounds, it's unpredictable as to who gets interviews and who doesn't. I had a first in first year, 2.1 in second, and thus far am working off a first, but I didn't get ANY top 4 interviews.

I did end up going with BDO tho so I think I'm in a really good position., I start in October. I'll get the chance to work with indigenous firms, entrepreneurial owner managed businesses AND multi-nats and hopefully avoid being pigeon holed into a specific sector. All this while working with one of the biggest firms in the world.

Don't just look at the Big 4. BDO, Grant Thornthan, Mazars et all are definately worth consideration too.

I was immensely impressed by BDO.


I went into the milkround with absolute tunnel vision for the big 4 and put the rest down just to cover my arse, but after attending the BDO presentation I had a real decision on my hands tbh. Seemed much more scope to work in different areas and different divisions of the firm and it seemd like a place that is really going places.


In the end I went with a big4 firm just for the name on the CV because I dont see my long term career in accountancy. The point I am trying to make is really ask what you want from your career and look at all the options. Big 4 firms are class but they are not for everyone.

Blackthorn1011

Hanley wrote: »

That seems to be very true. I've been looking at alot of audit senior/manager positions with big 4 firms recently (jsut out of curiosity like) and it seems like once you've top 10 or even experience then you'd be considered.

From my own experience of the milkrounds, it's unpredictable as to who gets interviews and who doesn't. I had a first in first year, 2.1 in second, and thus far am working off a first, but I didn't get ANY top 4 interviews.

I did end up going with BDO tho so I think I'm in a really good position., I start in October. I'll get the chance to work with indigenous firms, entrepreneurial owner managed businesses AND multi-nats and hopefully avoid being pigeon holed into a specific sector. All this while working with one of the biggest firms in the world.

Don't just look at the Big 4. BDO, Grant Thornthan, Mazars et all are definately worth consideration too.

Cheers for the advice lads, I would be aiming for the Big 4 but saying that i definately wouldn't turn down opportunities in BDO etc.

Is it worth doing a masters though?

I think that is my biggest dilemma at the moment. Will it make life easier in terms of actually getting offers from firms in general?

Running Bing

Blackthorn1011 wrote: »

Cheers for the advice lads, I would be aiming for the Big 4 but saying that i definately wouldn't turn down opportunities in BDO etc.

Is it worth doing a masters though?

I think that is my biggest dilemma at the moment. Will it make life easier in terms of actually getting offers from firms in general?

Well it costs around 10 grand to do a masters and I know that most, if not all, of the people on those courses are getting sponsorship.


As for if it makes a difference I personally have no idea but it is a fair whack of cash to part with especially since money for trainees is pretty crappy even at the higher end.


Think their bloody tough to get onto as well. Not 100% sure how competitive but I think it tends to be mostly 1sts and top 2.1's(with firsts in accountancy subjects) from the likes of DCU, UCD and Trinity. How accurate is that?

Blackthorn1011

Babybing wrote: »

Well it costs around 10 grand to do a masters and I know that most, if not all, of the people on those courses are getting sponsorship.


As for if it makes a difference I personally have no idea but it is a fair whack of cash to part with especially since money for trainees is pretty crappy even at the higher end.


Think their bloody tough to get onto as well. Not 100% sure how competitive but I think it tends to be mostly 1sts and top 2.1's(with firsts in accountancy subjects) from the likes of DCU, UCD and Trinity. How accurate is that?

Well its 7000 in NUIG and 4000 in UCC, I wouldnt consider it without sponsorship. It requires at least a 2:1 in most places. My understanding of NUIG is that there's around 30 places and they are sponsored by KPMG.

So I think most places might have the same thing going on.

Feel free to correct me anybody, because I'm not 100% sure, I'm just testing the water at the moment.

conbob

i'm only 18 but i've done some looking into my future job. on accaglobal.com it says you would get 8 exemptions out of a possible 9!! far as i know a masters gives you 9 out of 9 and possibly one or two of the 5 professional exams. thats what i've made of it anyway. so overall if i came out of an accounting degree i wouldnt get a masters. i'm only doin my leaving cert now though

Leon11

Think some of the higher end masters prices being quoted are for the likes of Ucd at nearly €11k and Dcu at over €12k.

I've accepted a Big 4 with an offer to do a Masters, I've now come to the conclusion that although your working and doing exams for 2 years of your contract if one already has the max exemptions allowable up to cap 2/ prof 3 there's not gonna be much of a difference.

I currently go to Tallaght I.T and as stated have gotten Big 4, out of a class size of 45-50 students about 6 of us got placed with Big 4 firms. It was pretty competitive and I think I was only one of three students who got to the interview stage based on a strong 2:1. Any of the other students who interviewed had 1:1's and even then two got rejected.

When it came to the next tier of firms not ONE student was even interviewed! When it came to some interview feedback given the general consensus amongst most of us (students) was that those who had the ability to communicate clearly and demonstrate the ability during the interview tended to be successful.

The_Hustler

Leon11 wrote: »

Think some of the higher end masters prices being quoted are for the likes of Ucd at nearly €11k and Dcu at over €12k.

I do believe that UCD's might be close but DCU's is just over €7.5k

dudara

Leon11 wrote: »

When it came to some interview feedback given the general consensus amongst most of us (students) was that those who had the ability to communicate clearly and demonstrate the ability during the interview tended to be successful.

Big + 1. The ability to interact and communicate is vital to working in a professional services firm.

Leon11

The_Hustler wrote: »

I do believe that UCD's might be close but DCU's is just over €7.5k

I apologise, you are correct I was looking at dcu's fees for 2008 and they only quote for non eu students at present.

Fruiti

I'm in a Big 4. They absolutely love the following;
1. Internships (apply now for one either this summer or next summer)
2. Masters students - this is possibly more relevant for someone considering Tax more than Audit as you will have 2 sets of professional exams to complete in Tax and Masters students (in this firm anyway!) tend to become qualified earlier and get promoted earlier.

They will sponsor you to complete the Masters - in whatever college you wish. Apply for all of them as you may not get accepted to your first choice, e.g. Galway only has 30 places whereas UCD has 120

I wouldn't worry about the fact that you're in an IT, you will just have to ensure your grades are as good as everyone else's (which you have plenty of time for if you're only in 3rd year!). Make sure you spend a lot of time on your application forms - they rely on these a lot. You could literally be refused an interview due to one spelling error, so get someone else to proofread it for you!:)
Good luck!

commercegrad07

is it worth doing the masters? i know its a kinda general question but.. i've accepted a big 4 contract, going to audit.. originally i told my firm that i wasn't interested in a masters but lately got back to them and they said it was no problem if i did wish to do it. im currently in ucg, and would be confident of getting the masters if i applied.. just not sure really, its a very tough year by all accounts and just wondering would i be better off just getting out there

chubba1984

I did the NUIG masters last year and it's a year I certainly wouldn't be repeating anytime soon. We had assignments/continuous assessments at least every week, sometimes you might have 2 or three in any given week. Exams are fairly tough as well.

mrmanire

Well you would be surprised. Hoping to graduate this summer with a 2.1 politics degree and have a accepted an offer from a 'Big 4' firm. To be honest, I was kind of shocked to be offered a job in the first place with most other friends of mine working for the 'Big 4' having 1.1 or high 2.1 business or accounting degrees. Still though it definitely seems to be far harder to get in with a degree from an Institute of Technology. Anyone else know anything about the numbers of non-business getting 'Big 4' offers?

Fruiti

Commercegrad07 - I think the Masters is invaluable for several reasons. It's certainly a tough year but you should remember that if you don't do it you will be doing CAP 2 (the prof 3 equivalent) which from what I've heard from colleagues is also very difficult. You will also have to work and study at the same time for 2 years of your contract instead of one. If you do the Masters you will not have the additional worry of work for that year. As well as that, you will have an additional qualification, i.e. Masters & ACA whereas if you go the CAP 2 route you will just have ACA (a minor distinction but still makes a difference). I don't know anyone who regrets doing the masters. Plus it's a great year socially and you'll make loads of new friends who'll remain your friends right throughout your contract and beyond!:)

Blackthorn1011

Hmm.. new thanks button...
Cheers for the advice lads I think ill just apply for everything, everywhere next year.
Ill be happy either way I'd say.

Hanley

Blackthorn1011 wrote: »

Hmm.. new thanks button...
Cheers for the advice lads I think ill just apply for everything, everywhere next year.
Ill be happy either way I'd say.

Sounds like a plan. Generally the top 6 or 7 have closing dates earlier than the rest of the top 20, so put your main focus there initially. Don't forget to put a lot of thought into how you answer your questions too. There's certain things they're looking for and how you present yourself there, combined with your grades will probably make the difference as to whether or not you get an interview.

Marz66

There's plenty of good advice on here already. However, with regard to the person who said that someone with a Masters is slightly more qualified than someone with ACA, I'm not so sure. A lecturer from my college, UL, told a friend that at the end of the day, when a Masters student and a 'straight from college' student have both passed the FAE's, they are both equally qualified - they are both ACA qualified and it doesnt really matter what route you take to get there. Also a Masters gives no more exemptions from the FAEs than the Prof 3s/CAP2s.

As for getting into the big 4 from an IT, as most people have said, just show on your application form and in an interview that you have good results, interpersonal/organising skills etc. The Big 4 use competency based interviews to show you have a track record in performing well, therefore they might say - give me an example of a time you used your organising skills, but they may tailor this by saying give me an example from secondary school/college/outside college etc. They will be looking for a track record in your results also from Leaving Cert to final degree results. Although I would say you don't have to have 2.1. standard all the way - I went from 1.1 to low 2.2 to high 2.1 and was accepted to a Big 4 firm.

tywy

With regards to non-business graduates being accepted, I'm an Electronic Engineering student and have been accepted by the big 4.

Another guy in Mech Engineering got selected by one of the top 6/7, I'm unsure of the rankings.

I don't think it's difficult to get into the big 4 without a business degree as long as you have good reasons why you want to be there.

Fruiti

Marz66 wrote: »

There's plenty of good advice on here already. However, with regard to the person who said that someone with a Masters is slightly more qualified than someone with ACA, I'm not so sure. A lecturer from my college, UL, told a friend that at the end of the day, when a Masters student and a 'straight from college' student have both passed the FAE's, they are both equally qualified - they are both ACA qualified and it doesnt really matter what route you take to get there. Also a Masters gives no more exemptions from the FAEs than the Prof 3s/CAP2s.

QUOTE]

Absolutely, as regards being an Accountant, a person with a Masters is no more qualified than someone who obtained the ACA direct entry. However, people with a Masters are paid more (throughout training contract and beyond) and if for example, you wished to become a lecturer at a University, a Masters degree is a requirement (unless you begin as a teaching assistant and do a PhD).

sheena1985

I don't think that any of the Big 4 are biased against IT colleges, perhaps 5 or 10 years ago, but not now. I am in DIT, in my final year, and almost all of the people in my year that applied to a Big 4 company got accepted. I got a place in a Big 4 advisory dept, which is usually harder to get into, so I dont think the fact that I went to an IT was an issue at all.

As others have said, an internship is a great idea, if CIT do work placements it might be an idea to look for work with an accountancy firm.

Blackthorn1011

sheena1985 wrote: »

As others have said, an internship is a great idea, if CIT do work placements it might be an idea to look for work with an accountancy firm.

Ya I've been working part-time and summers in a small firm for nearly 3 years. Hopefully this will be a big advantage to me.

aintnosunshine

I'm a Ucd commerce student and i've been offered all of the Big 4. I have a low 2.1 degree. i found the Milk round very time consuming by the time you fill out the applications and research all the companies attend all the information evenings (can't really complain there most usually have some kind of free drink and food PWC gave us a three course meal) and then do the interview. i think the main thing is being able to hold your own in an interview make yourself come across as someone that they would have no problem sending out to meet a client (Plus wearing the business suit you kinda feel like you can do anything).. i would recommend anyone to get involved in charity work and sports they love that and it shows team work motivations leadership etc..

My friend is doing commerce and absolutely hates accounting and got all Ds and Cs in her exams in accounting (although all her other exams brought her up to a 2.1) she applied for Tax but one of the big 4 said they didn't have any more spaces for tax interviews would she do Audit she went along and got offered Audit she is being sponsored to do a PDA for non accounting students and will probably be starting in Sept 09.. Kinda makes you think the whole thing is a pure lottery or else they are really desperate to get commerce people in...

Hanley

I'd say it's the fact you're UCD heads.

A guy I'm in college with pulled a first in his xmas exams, applied to KPMG when they reopened their applicant process and he was shot down.

The_Hustler

I'm a DCU head and loads of us are going there.

Fruiti

The Big 4 want everything - i.e. good leaving cert results (regardless of how silly people think that is, it's a fact, anyone with 500points plus is in a fantastic position), good degree, 2.1 minimum, excellent interpersonal skills, preferably a member of a sports team of some sort, proven ability to work as part of a team, ideally a summer internship with a big 4 or another accounting practice (not asking a lot!!!).

They rate you based on your application form, i.e. allocate you a score based on all of the above and then it's up to you in the interview to prove all those things. Once you get an interview the college you go to is irrelevant, but im not saying they're not biased against lesser known colleges. If you're coming from a smaller college then it's up to you to make sure your application form is brilliant so they'll want to meet you! It's not all down to results but they are obviously a large factor.

shewasoctober

I have been accepted to a Big 4. I have a BA in English and no accounts experience. I do have loads of experience in team work and interpersonal communication. The offer is for an audit position, and it was after the milkrounds when they opened up to fill audit positions. I am from the US and had a 3.1 GPA, which is a high 2.2 or low 2.1, depending on the college. I think it is all about getting the interview. If you can get it, then it is all up to you and how you market yourself, and prior to the interview, again, it is marketing yourself through your CV. I'm still debating if I'm going to accept the offer or if I will take an offer to work at a smaller place because I really don't know if I want to be only doing auditing, though it is very hard to turn down.

baflyer

I perform interviews for a big 4 firm. The first item i look at and the most critical is your leaving cert results, any were over 500 and i am inpressed. anything less and you have some explaining to do at interview (if you get one). Also (consistent not patchy) 1.1 or 2.1 from any college plus good leaving cert result is a plus. Part time jobs are essential to your application as are some sort of leadership role in college. In the interview you need to talk and appear intelligent. I have had lots of interviews were the candidate didnt really show any interest or talk even though they had a great cv on paper (no offer i am afraid). The other important item is to show a genuine passion for accounting / auditing and know abit about what is involved. Lots of people come to interviews and dont really know why they applied (or else that is the impression i get!). Be different if the form asks for a company you admire, dont go with a well known Irish company, pick a small company in your area or else a US company.

ManwitaPlan

baflyer wrote: »

I perform interviews for a big 4 firm. The first item i look at and the most critical is your leaving cert results, any were over 500 and i am inpressed. anything less and you have some explaining to do at interview (if you get one). Also (consistent not patchy) 1.1 or 2.1 from any college plus good leaving cert result is a plus. Part time jobs are essential to your application as are some sort of leadership role in college. In the interview you need to talk and appear intelligent. I have had lots of interviews were the candidate didnt really show any interest or talk even though they had a great cv on paper (no offer i am afraid). The other important item is to show a genuine passion for accounting / auditing and know abit about what is involved. Lots of people come to interviews and dont really know why they applied (or else that is the impression i get!). Be different if the form asks for a company you admire, dont go with a well known Irish company, pick a small company in your area or else a US company.

I know two people, from my small little area, who did their leaving cert and went into a big 4 firm and after a certain amount of service (a couple of years or something) they get onto the same grad programme as people who came through college.


Now I always found this weird given that both these fella's are not exactly the impressive type, they both got mediocre-poor leaving certs and they had little or no extra curric stuff.

Does that happen a lot? Both of them got a job with the same firm, a few years apart and given I live in such a small area it seems like it is a policy at this particular firm.

DJDC

My friend is doing commerce and absolutely hates accounting and got all Ds and Cs in her exams in accounting (although all her other exams brought her up to a 2.1) she applied for Tax but one of the big 4 said they didn't have any more spaces for tax interviews would she do Audit she went along and got offered Audit she is being sponsored to do a PDA for non accounting students and will probably be starting in Sept 09.. Kinda makes you think the whole thing is a pure lottery or else they are really desperate to get commerce people in...

I know two people, from my small little area, who did their leaving cert and went into a big 4 firm and after a certain amount of service (a couple of years or something) they get onto the same grad programme as people who came through college.


Now I always found this weird given that both these fella's are not exactly the impressive type, they both got mediocre-poor leaving certs and they had little or no extra curric stuff.

I know a lot of mediocre graduates who mananged to get trainee accountant places in the last few years. 300 points in LC, 2.1 from an IT, few EC's etc. The next few years, with mass layoffs and a serious downturn in the audit business will see a return to normality with intakes far lower and the resulting graduate quality higher. When the audit practices were taking on over 1000 people every year during the boom years, there was always going to be a problem with quality.

baflyer

quite right. there has been a problem with quality in the past few years but the last milkround in November 2008, the requirements had returned to normal levels.