Priest condemns magic shows

lostexpectation

are you listening to this on the joe duffy show now,

as part of fundraiser to get to lourdes some kids are doing a magic show, and a priest is on now saying he doesn't want it be to associated with the church...

he describes it saying slight of hand is one thing a card trick etc, but producing a dove from under a handkerchief is too much,

he quotes the bible talking about sorcery, etc, but the type of magic most magician do is simple illusion ,only a few pretend to have powers, it wouldn't be right to have charity tarot card reading at a church fundraiser but I don't see the problem with pulling a dove unnoticed out of your inside pocket...

Doctor DooM

... there is always one.

death1234567

Priest in spouting nonsense shocker :rolleyes:

lostexpectation

you should have heard his reaction when joe duffy suggested transubstantiation might be seen as magic

GOD ALMIGHTY NO

Peanut

Too funny... You can hear the nervousness in the other priests calling up realising the potential damage that this guy is doing to the church.

It's car crash radio but it's shamefully entertaining :-p

Latchy

Listening to it right now

Kess73

The same priest is well known in Limerick for being a bit of a joke as he regularly makes the local media with his comments.

Run_to_da_hills

Its a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Magic shows are no more demonic as the demonic healings preformed at Lourdes.

Latchy

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Magic shows are no more demonic as the demonic healings preformed at Lourdes.

It might be more a question of beliefs in the latter but i agree somtimes it's hard to tell these days

lostexpectation

he's conflating illusion with superstition and and rieke and yoga, now I can understand him criticising rieke etc, but magic shows are an entirely different thing, the other priest from limerick was quite strong, said he was an embarrassment.

MrJoeSoap

Possibly the most depressing, frustrating car-crash piece of radio I've ever heard. How much are we paying Joe Duffy a year, remind me?

lostexpectation

and now we have derek mooney giving credence to miracles performed by padre pio

kelly1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Magic shows are no more demonic as the demonic healings preformed at Lourdes.

You're way too obsessed with the devil for you own good. His power should neither be over-estimated or under-estimated. You definitely have a leaning towards over-estimation.

Anyway what have healings at Lourdes got to do with demons?

Run_to_da_hills

kelly1 wrote: »

You're way too obsessed with the devil for you own good. His power should neither be over-estimated or under-estimated. You definitely have a leaning towards over-estimation.

Anyway what have healings at Lourdes got to do with demons?

There is nothing in scripture about healing through "Mary", she is not our savior, she is not omnipresent, and she is not omnipotent in fact she is just a dead body in a grave awaiting the resurrection like the rest of humanity. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". John 14 6 Jesus never mentioned any "way" through "Mary". The Vatican has made a total monster out of Mary by putting her on a pedestal and is cashing in on it at the same time with its own chartered airline pilgrimages. Salvation and healing through Mary could only be a doctrine that could come from the adversary.

kelly1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is nothing in scripture about healing through "Mary", she is not our savior, she is not omnipresent, and she is not omnipotent in fact she is just a dead body in a grave awaiting the resurrection like the rest of humanity. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". John 14 6 Jesus never mentioned any "way" through "Mary". The Vatican has made a total monster out of Mary by putting her on a pedestal and is cashing in on it at the same time with its own chartered airline pilgrimages. Salvation and healing through Mary could only be a doctrine that could come from the adversary.

Where is Mary's soul do you think? Is it in some warehouse between Heaven and Hell? Jesus told the good thief that he would be in paradise with Him on the same day. Don't you think He would do the same for His mother!?

Anyway I never claimed Mary healed anyone or that she is our saviour etc but there's nothing to stop her interceeding on our behalf.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject - this is off topic.

Run_to_da_hills

kelly1 wrote: »

Where is Mary's soul do you think? Is it in some warehouse between Heaven and Hell? Jesus told the good thief that he would be in paradise with Him on the same day. Don't you think He would do the same for His mother!?

Anyway I never claimed Mary healed anyone or that she is our saviour etc but there's nothing to stop her interceeding on our behalf.

That's all I'm going to say on the subject - this is off topic.

Maybe some Greek translation scholars can correct me on this, apparently there was no punctuation in the original verse of Luke 23vs42 Which would give an entirely different concept, ie "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43 KJV) On other words Jesus mentioned that on the day he was crucified that the good thief will be (in the future) with him in paradise.

Also Gods concept of time is completly different to ours. "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". (II-Peter 3:8)

philologos

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Also Gods concept of time is completly different to ours. "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". (II-Peter 3:8)

The only doctrine I can see with that is either the robber will be taken out of hell later, or the robber is in Purgatory and is in waiting for heaven.

I think Jesus knew the robber was repentant and when the robber would die he would be with Jesus in Paradise.

Sapien

kelly1 wrote: »

You're way too obsessed with the devil for you own good. His power should neither be over-estimated or under-estimated.

So, basically, all one has to do is know exactly how powerful the Devil is?

How powerful is that, pray? Exactly?

santing

Sapien wrote: »

... How powerful is that, pray? Exactly?

Well he is not omnipresent, omniscient etc. like Mary and the Saints are believed to be!

To go back to the title of this topic - has the protestant churches not always complaint against the magic in the RC Church? Is not the word "Hocus Pocus" derived from the Latin Mass?

JoeB-

I would have thought the devil would be considered omnipresent but not omniscient. Only God would be omniscient but he has chosen not to prevent the devil from doing his work so the devil must have free reign to do what he likes (with the exception of overthrowing God himself)

I have never heard of anyone but God being described as omniscient.. after all an omniscient being would know Gods mind, the devils mind and Gods future mind and actions...

Back on topic that priest must be considered a loony and I find it hard to believe he is not being censured in any way by the Catholic church... Joe Duffy was right to say that many Catholic beliefs are more or less magical in nature, simply because they are religious beliefs shouldn't make them any less supernatural or magical.

Run_to_da_hills

Do these bottles of water that people bring back from Lourdes not contain some sort of magical powers?

kelly1

Sapien wrote: »

So, basically, all one has to do is know exactly how powerful the Devil is?

How powerful is that, pray? Exactly?

The devil is far, far more powerful than any of us. The devil has no power over us unless we allow him power and even then he can only have as much power as God permits. God uses the devil to test us through temptation to see whether we love creation (things and people) or the Creator more.

santing wrote: »

To go back to the title of this topic - has the protestant churches not always complaint against the magic in the RC Church? Is not the word "Hocus Pocus" derived from the Latin Mass?

What? Where did you get this nonsense from?

Sapien

kelly1 wrote: »

The devil is far, far more powerful than any of us. The devil has no power over us unless we allow him power and even then he can only have as much power as God permits. God uses the devil to test us through temptation to see whether we love creation (things and people) or the Creator more.

So, taking that into account, how has Run_to_da_hills over-estimated the power of the Devil?

robindch

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do these bottles of water that people bring back from Lourdes not contain some sort of magical powers?

I assume they're the same things as the holy water that's available for purchase in Saudi. If you've ever been on an internal flight within KSA, especially around the hajj, you'll see that virtually everybody will be trotting around with five or ten liters each.

Cures warts and increases 'manliness', I'm sure.

humanji

kelly1 wrote: »

What? Where did you get this nonsense from?

It's one of the possible origins of the phrase. I don't think anyone knows for sure:

Wikipedia wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hocus_Pocus_%28magic%29


The origins of the term remain obscure. Some believe it originates from a parody of the Roman Catholic liturgy of the eucharist, which contains the phrase "Hoc est enim corpus meus". This explanation goes back to speculations by the Anglican prelate John Tillotson, who wrote in 1694:
"In all probability those common juggling words of hocus pocus are nothing else but a corruption of hoc est corpus, by way of ridiculous imitation of the priests of the Church of Rome in their trick of Transubstantiation."

kelly1

Sapien wrote: »

So, taking that into account, how has Run_to_da_hills over-estimated the power of the Devil?

In a large number of his posts (especially concerning the RCC) he refers to the doctrines of the devil, blames the devil for the downfall of most of the human race (rock music, drugs, pornography etc). The point is that we allow ourselves to be tempted and we are weak due to original sin. The devil puts tempts us but we are to blame when we give in to temptation. God uses temptation as a means for us to grow in virtue (purity, patience, humility etc) so it's wrong to blame the devil for everything. We just need to be aware that we are being tempted and when we don't give in and resist, we grown spiritually.

PDN

I guess that priest in limerick would really hate this guy: http://http://www.crusaders.org.uk/PeteMcCahon.html Pete McCahon was a Christian evangelist and also edited the Magic Circle's inhouse magazine.

Run_to_da_hills

kelly1 wrote: »

In a large number of his posts (especially concerning the RCC) he refers to the doctrines of the devil, blames the devil for the downfall of most of the human race (rock music, drugs, pornography etc). The point is that we allow ourselves to be tempted and we are weak due to original sin. The devil puts tempts us but we are to blame when we give in to temptation. God uses temptation as a means for us to grow in virtue (purity, patience, humility etc) so it's wrong to blame the devil for everything. We just need to be aware that we are being tempted and when we don't give in and resist, we grown spiritually.

The Devil will use any means possible to distract people from their truth of the "word of God" and the truth in salvation which is only in Christ by Faith. He will use places like Lourdes, Knock and Fatima as distractions. When you go to these places you are bombarded with stalls cashing in on idolatry selling graven images, bottles of "Magic Water", and other artifacts that have their roots in ancient pagan Babylon.

Sapien

kelly1 wrote: »

In a large number of his posts (especially concerning the RCC) he refers to the doctrines of the devil, blames the devil for the downfall of most of the human race (rock music, drugs, pornography etc). The point is that we allow ourselves to be tempted and we are weak due to original sin. The devil puts tempts us but we are to blame when we give in to temptation. God uses temptation as a means for us to grow in virtue (purity, patience, humility etc) so it's wrong to blame the devil for everything. We just need to be aware that we are being tempted and when we don't give in and resist, we grown spiritually.

Can these temptations take any form, or only certain forms?

Nerin

Peanut wrote: »

Too funny... You can hear the nervousness in the other priests calling up realising the potential damage that this guy is doing to the church.

It's car crash radio but it's shamefully entertaining :-p

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Possibly the most depressing, frustrating car-crash piece of radio I've ever heard. How much are we paying Joe Duffy a year, remind me?

+1, this kinda thing is what the church really needs to distance itself from.
he may be some idiot giving out about magic shows at the moment, but the church has done this whole condemning things way to much.

kelly1 wrote: »

You're way too obsessed with the devil for you own good.

another +1, off topic and just...pointless.

I think it was wrong letting that looper spout nonsense on the airwaves