cork construction

dazzlermac

i work in the construction industry,it has died a death in the last six months,any body think its gonna pick up,i have done bout a months work since november:mad:.any one else in the same boat?????

Big Tone

No but it if you've hardly done any work since November then it might be time for you to look at the prospect of a change of career.

Unfort too many men went into the construction industry and now that things have slowed down they're really starting to feel the pinch. Even kids who decided to quit their education before leaving cert must now be kicking themselves but the lure of big cash was too much, even for the short term. Combine that with all the foreign nationals who came here to make a few bob.

I doubt we'll ever see have that same spurt of growth again in our lifetime, it was unprecedented butwith the way the world economy is going we're unlikely to see anything like the activity we've witnessed for the past 12 years or so.

dazzlermac

Big Tone wrote: »

No but it if you've hardly done any work since November then it might be time for you to look at the prospect of a change of career.

Unfort too many men went into the construction industry and now that things have slowed down they're really starting to feel the pinch. Even kids who decided to quit their education before leaving cert must now be kicking themselves but the lure of big cash was too much, even for the short term. Combine that with all the foreign nationals who came here to make a few bob.

I doubt we'll ever see have that same spurt of growth again in our lifetime, it was unprecedented butwith the way the world economy is going we're unlikely to see anything like the activity we've witnessed for the past 12 years or so.

i wish i could, but i am one that finished after junior cert and have no other qualifications than being a tradesman:(,so i think me is f**ked .........lol:rolleyes:

invincibleirish

why not go to Australia? a load of tradesman i know have and are going over there as there is a load of work to be had. some have went for a year but id say some will be staying a longer then that.

Failing that go and sit your leaving cert. College of Comm, has an adult leaving cert class and plenty of them went on to 3rd level

Failing that set up your own business as a tradesman and employ Eastern Europeans at dirt cheap rates and undercut your competitors

dazzlermac

invincibleirish wrote: »

why not go to Australia? a load of tradesman i know have and are going over there as there is a load of work to be had. some have went for a year but id say some will be staying a longer then that.

Failing that go and sit your leaving cert. College of Comm, has an adult leaving cert class and plenty of them went on to 3rd level

Failing that set up your own business as a tradesman and employ Eastern Europeans at dirt cheap rates and undercut your competitors

been in oz and usa for a year each,have me own business,for the last three years but refused to employ cheap labour and am proud to say have only ever employed irish,as a suby things have become very quite cause the market was flooded and we have the turks and romanians to come nxt year,as for leaving cert have never been the academic type,thanks for your suggestion tho:)

StandnDeliver

i know most of the trade of gone to sweden,england,and oz.

Ekancone

What is your trade?

Rustycans

Cork and the whole country are headed downhill . I work in the building line - have done for years - all I hear are stories of people out of work / looking for work . Alot of companies in trouble . Dont think this is going to improve anytime soon itll get much worse . Alot of young guys in the building line dont know what it is to be out of work . I left school in 1988 with leaving cert and couldnt get a job anywhere . In those days 99% of construction workers had to emigrate to the likes of London or New York . My mates dad worked as a carpenter in London and got home to see his wife and kids maybe 4 times a year . This is the way it is headed again . These guys with mortgages and young families will have to go the same route . The only problem is that whereas in the 80 s and early 90 s if things were quiet here it was booming elsewhere - London, New York, Berlin. These days the trend has changed and recession is more global . London will be booming alright for the Olympics , the States is headed downhill . All I can say is dont count on things picking up here . I have a good job here ,I have a wife , 2kids , 2 dogs and a mortgage and I m off . Just waiting on work permit to come through .

Ekancone

Well thats what people get trying to chase a quick buck. Almost everyone i know from school ran to get a trade and put very little thought into the future. Not only did they do that but they blew all their money in the process. I saw this coming back then and I don't feel one bit sorry for them to be honest, they were the ones gloating the whole time about the money they were on, now its all over. They made their bed and have to sleep in it now.

dazzlermac

daithifleming wrote: »

Well thats what people get trying to chase a quick buck. Almost everyone i know from school ran to get a trade and put very little thought into the future. Not only did they do that but they blew all their money in the process. I saw this coming back then and I don't feel one bit sorry for them to be honest, they were the ones gloating the whole time about the money they were on, now its all over. They made their bed and have to sleep in it now.

how far is your head up there???

dazzlermac

daithifleming wrote: »

What is your trade?

carpenter;)

invincibleirish

Rustycans wrote: »

Cork and the whole country are headed downhill . I work in the building line - have done for years - all I hear are stories of people out of work / looking for work . Alot of companies in trouble . Dont think this is going to improve anytime soon itll get much worse . Alot of young guys in the building line dont know what it is to be out of work . I left school in 1988 with leaving cert and couldnt get a job anywhere . In those days 99% of construction workers had to emigrate to the likes of London or New York . My mates dad worked as a carpenter in London and got home to see his wife and kids maybe 4 times a year . This is the way it is headed again . These guys with mortgages and young families will have to go the same route . The only problem is that whereas in the 80 s and early 90 s if things were quiet here it was booming elsewhere - London, New York, Berlin. These days the trend has changed and recession is more global . London will be booming alright for the Olympics , the States is headed downhill . All I can say is dont count on things picking up here . I have a good job here ,I have a wife , 2kids , 2 dogs and a mortgage and I m off . Just waiting on work permit to come through .

No disrespect but you are the example of the failure of our current government. by relying so heavily on the construction industry to fuel the countries economic boom the government put its head in the clouds with regards longterm planning, you just cant build 1000s of houses year after year and expect that to continue and keep everyone in the construction industry. thats why unemployment is now rising.

the solution? perception seems to be that as the economy slows that public spending on key infrastrucure like roads and railways will soak up the falloff in employment in other parts of construction. i disagree as borrowing to finance these projects is very risky for a country like Ireland, as a small island nation which acts a kind of a canary in the mine for the international economy we will suffer more then our big EU neighbours.

My advice to you? same as to the OP, try and get training in new fields or go back to education and learn new skills. its easy to say but obviously you are in circumstances which might not allow for it.i hope you do well wherever you go, but tell everyone before you go whose fault it is, its Fianna Fails fault.

Ekancone

invincibleirish wrote: »

No disrespect but you are the example of the failure of our current government. by relying so heavily on the construction industry to fuel the countries economic boom the government put its head in the clouds with regards longterm planning, you just cant build 1000s of houses year after year and expect that to continue and keep everyone in the construction industry. thats why unemployment is now rising.

the solution? perception seems to be that as the economy slows that public spending on key infrastrucure like roads and railways will soak up the falloff in employment in other parts of construction. i disagree as borrowing to finance these projects is very risky for a country like Ireland, as a small island nation which acts a kind of a canary in the mine for the international economy we will suffer more then our big EU neighbours.

My advice to you? same as to the OP, try and get training in new fields or go back to education and learn new skills. its easy to say but obviously you are in circumstances which might not allow for it.i hope you do well wherever you go, but tell everyone before you go whose fault it is, its Fianna Fails fault.

It ain't FF's fault. Its the fault of greedy builders and even greedier people trying to make a quick buck in the property game. Shame was all that money was made long ago and now people are stuck with houses they can't sell. Its a free market, that aint the govts fault. You must live by your actions. Like it was said above, retrain.

invincibleirish

daithifleming wrote: »

It ain't FF's fault. Its the fault of greedy builders and even greedier people trying to make a quick buck in the property game. Shame was all that money was made long ago and now people are stuck with houses they can't sell. Its a free market, that aint the govts fault. You must live by your actions. Like it was said above, retrain.

Yes it is. they have been in power for 10 years and took credit for the economic boom(unfairly) now they must take responsiblity for the demise of the Celtic Tiger, its on their watch, they have squandered the tax proceeds. they actively promoted as policy the development of the construction industry beyond all reasonable expectations.special tax exemptions, non existant and poor planning and early 1990s corruption are the main factors in the power and boom of the construction industry, the links between those greedy builders & Fianna Fail are myriad. Galway races anyone?

StandnDeliver

To the OP
say if you did return to education,that isn't any harm
if your unemployed 6months or more and apply to the college of com you could do leaving cert,or course or a few other colleges,st johns,stiofan naoife and you would get assistance to go to college,rent allowance and a bit more than the dole.And a grant if your entitled.
look into it.Nothing wrong with heading back to education.

Rustycans

invincibleirish wrote: »

No disrespect but you are the example of the failure of our current government. by relying so heavily on the construction industry to fuel the countries economic boom the government put its head in the clouds with regards longterm planning, you just cant build 1000s of houses year after year and expect that to continue and keep everyone in the construction industry. thats why unemployment is now rising.

the solution? perception seems to be that as the economy slows that public spending on key infrastrucure like roads and railways will soak up the falloff in employment in other parts of construction. i disagree as borrowing to finance these projects is very risky for a country like Ireland, as a small island nation which acts a kind of a canary in the mine for the international economy we will suffer more then our big EU neighbours.

My advice to you? same as to the OP, try and get training in new fields or go back to education and learn new skills. its easy to say but obviously you are in circumstances which might not allow for it.i hope you do well wherever you go, but tell everyone before you go whose fault it is, its Fianna Fails fault.

What party do you support then ? Any Government will not try and halt ANY growth in construction . When construction is booming the country is booming . Has always been like that always will be , same all over the world . WHY ? For a number of reasons -obviously builders make money , people in general profit in alot of ways from someone buying and selling property to the local infrastructure i.e. filling stations, cafes , shops etc etc . But the main reason is that all the men and young men who would otherwise be on the dole / criminals / immigrants are gainfully employed . When construction goes into recession as I said all the guys that left school early / are lifelong tradesmen / labourers / machine drivers / engineers or whatever will either immigrate /go on welfare / back to crime or retrain as has you mention . Dont forget when construction goes down the whole country will . Its happening already with businesses closing all over . Im normally a v positive person but things do look bad . I have 2 years guaranteed work ahead where I am now and the people I work with have a good chance of getting more work then . ( all chemical plants / power stations etc. No houses . Im a foreman by the way 38 yrs old .) I have decided to immigrate for a change for me and family /maybe better standard of living / see the world . So I dont need your advice . Thanks Anyway

Rustycans

daithifleming wrote: »

Well thats what people get trying to chase a quick buck. Almost everyone i know from school ran to get a trade and put very little thought into the future. Not only did they do that but they blew all their money in the process. I saw this coming back then and I don't feel one bit sorry for them to be honest, they were the ones gloating the whole time about the money they were on, now its all over. They made their bed and have to sleep in it now.

When construction goes down --Everything else follows . I wouldnt be too smug .....

invincibleirish

Rustycans wrote: »

What party do you support then ? Any Government will not try and halt ANY growth in construction . When construction is booming the country is booming . Has always been like that always will be , same all over the world . WHY ? For a number of reasons -obviously builders make money , people in general profit in alot of ways from someone buying and selling property to the local infrastructure i.e. filling stations, cafes , shops etc etc . But the main reason is that all the men and young men who would otherwise be on the dole / criminals / immigrants are gainfully employed . When construction goes into recession as I said all the guys that left school early / are lifelong tradesmen / labourers / machine drivers / engineers or whatever will either immigrate /go on welfare / back to crime or retrain as has you mention . Dont forget when construction goes down the whole country will

I support non corrupt, non gombeen man politics. instead of allowing the craze of non stop housing developments all over the place (think of the Greater Dublin commuter belt) this government should have focused more on developing high density development in current urban areas with careful infrastructural spending to match.

this country wont go to the dogs because builders cant build more houses (there are more then enough already), it will go to the dogs because cost of living is astronomical, people could not afford the houses you were building, inflation is high and the economys main selling point, being a low cost high tech economy, is no more. if you want to set up your manufacturing base in the EU, you dont go to Ireland you go to Poland (like Dell), if you want to locate your hi-tech skilled industry, for now Ireland is an ok option, but dont hold your breath on that lasting forever(think Amgen).

So back to my original point, it is FFs fault, put your head in the sand and count the money in your wallet all you want, its still their fault.

Rustycans

invincibleirish wrote: »

I support non corrupt, non gombeen man politics. instead of allowing the craze of non stop housing developments all over the place (think of the Greater Dublin commuter belt) this government should have focused more on developing high density development in current urban areas with careful infrastructural spending to match.

this country wont go to the dogs because builders cant build more houses (there are more then enough already), it will go to the dogs because cost of living is astronomical, people could not afford the houses you were building, inflation is high and the economys main selling point, being a low cost high tech economy, is no more. if you want to set up your manufacturing base in the EU, you dont go to Ireland you go to Poland (like Dell), if you want to locate your hi-tech skilled industry, for now Ireland is an ok option, but dont hold your breath on that lasting forever(think Amgen).

So back to my original point, it is FFs fault, put your head in the sand and count the money in your wallet all you want, its still their fault.

The country will go to the dogs for all the reasons you state sure enough . It is a fact that when building goes everything goes ,I remember the 80 s . Fianna Fail just happened to be 'in' this time . No doubt they are chancers but I dunno would the other crowd do any better . Not a supporter of any of em really ...Ireland has become too expensive ...in every way

Rustycans

The IRISH economy isnt so INVINCIBLE then !

rebs23

I know its bad at the moment and probably going to get worse for construction workers over the next few months. There are a few bright things on the horizon the two big power plants in whitegate ( 400 Million each) are about to pick up over the next few months, Eli Lily (500 Million) project, the O'Callaghan projects in the City Centre (350 million) is just begining to come up out of the ground and all of these are happening at the same time so its not all doom and gloom.
There are also big problems with the rollout of public sector contracts at the moment due to the Gov trying to introduce new forms of public sector contracts at the worse possible time so give it a few months when these projects man up, buyers decide to start buying again (people have been choosing to rent instead of buy), the Local Authorities buy up some remaining housing stock for social and affordable houses, etc then hopefully things will level out. I honestly can't see us going back to those grey days in the 80's and early 90's when we all took the Ryanair flight out of here because we had no choice.

run_Forrest_run

...and here I am waiting and waiting for engineers and builders to get back to me to do a nice and handy attic conversion! From where I am standing there does not seem to be many idle tradesmen...or maybe the good ones are busy and always will be and the poor ones will be idle...anyway back to my waiting and phone calls etc...:(

dazzlermac

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

...and here I am waiting and waiting for engineers and builders to get back to me to do a nice and handy attic conversion! From where I am standing there does not seem to be many idle tradesmen...or maybe the good ones are busy and always will be and the poor ones will be idle...anyway back to my waiting and phone calls etc...:(

its the other way round chief,the poor ones(polish) are busy cause they are cheap and the good ones are quite cause we want the going rate.

run_Forrest_run

dazzlermac wrote: »

its the other way round chief,the poor ones(polish) are busy cause they are cheap and the good ones are quite cause we want the going rate.

sorry, I mean 'poor' as in poor in ability/skills & quality.

Well I am in contact with all local lads (from Cork!) and they are very busy and it is still hard to get these lads on the phone or to get them to commit to a date for work.

dazzlermac

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

sorry, I mean 'poor' as in poor in ability/skills & quality.

Well I am in contact with all local lads (from Cork!) and they are very busy and it is still hard to get these lads on the phone or to get them to commit to a date for work.

lol..i ment poor as in bad quality too and most polish are.and that aint racist cause im not its fact unfortunatly:(

who_ru

a very interesting thread with some very well argued points.

speaking as someone who has returned to education (mid thirties) i can say that there are a load of options open to you when you graduate. i will be finished my course in May this year, the course is aimed at the pharma/med devices sector, and i hope to get work in that sector.

as for the economy we have very little influence over what happens to us. we are an island nation totally dependent on fossil fuels, the prices of which are dictated by speculators on the financial markets. the price of oil is being driven up by investers fleeing a weak dollar, OPEC has not cut the supply of oil at all.

however some things we can control. if i could argue a point about FF i would say this. they and the public sector in this country have awarded themselves pay levels that are totally unjustifiable. Eamon O Cuiv, minister for rural development earns more than the prime minister of Japan, a country with a population of 127 million people, we have 17 junior ministers all earning huge saleries for doing very little(what does billy kelleher actually do?), they are not all needed and their appointments are no more than FF looking after their own. the public wage bill is draining the public purse but FF won't ever tell you that. they happily based their spending projections on taxes derived from property. we have gone from having a surplus of 2 billion a few years ago to a real prospect of a deficit of that and more next year. with fewer taxes the public sector wage bill still has to be paid and their wages can only ever go up, they cannot have wage cuts, their pensions are astronomical and tenure is guaranteed. i include everyone in the public sector in this not just politicians and civil servants. if ever a golden circle existed then this is where it is.

to the OP i would say keep your options open, education is more accessible now than ever. fair play to you for starting your own business you've got more guts than i do. best of luck with whatever option you decide upon.

run_Forrest_run

excellent points who_ru, not sure how relevant they are to the direct topic at hand but still valid points...no wonder so many people are trying to get into the public sector/golden circle.

invincibleirish

who_ru wrote: »

however some things we can control. if i could argue a point about FF i would say this. they and the public sector in this country have awarded themselves pay levels that are totally unjustifiable. Eamon O Cuiv, minister for rural development earns more than the prime minister of Japan, a country with a population of 127 million people, we have 17 junior ministers all earning huge saleries for doing very little(what does billy kelleher actually do?), they are not all needed and their appointments are no more than FF looking after their own. the public wage bill is draining the public purse but FF won't ever tell you that. they happily based their spending projections on taxes derived from property. we have gone from having a surplus of 2 billion a few years ago to a real prospect of a deficit of that and more next year. with fewer taxes the public sector wage bill still has to be paid and their wages can only ever go up, they cannot have wage cuts, their pensions are astronomical and tenure is guaranteed. i include everyone in the public sector in this not just politicians and civil servants. if ever a golden circle existed then this is where it is.

Excellent point about FF, its a symptom of bad Government everywhere, an incumbent government who has won multiple terms gets lazy, arrogant & corrupt, think the Conservative Party in the 1990s. However as we have seen its up to the opposition to take the initiative and magnify the governments failings, slowly FG & Labour are beginnig to do that, 1 year too late since the last election and nearly a decade late with regards the murkiness around B. Ahern.

One additional point, the public service can be changed & adapted, Politicians wages can be changed, the hundreds of millions of Euro this Government has squandered on E-voting, cost over runs on the roads, the black hole that is the HSE as examples cannot be returned, at the time chronic overspending and mismanagement of finances was dismissed because there was so much money there it did not matter! what a disgrace!

this country likes to think we've changed in attitude and style since the 1980s but have we? everyone got fat off the Celtic Tiger, the Public sector, the private sector, the self employed (like our builder friends), now the ****s going to hit the fan, jobs will be lost wages will go down and what have we achieved?

Huge shortfalls in Education, lots of portacabins and sub standard facilities across the country and an underfunded 3rd level sector

The health service, despite some 'improvements' (the costly NTPF, abolition of the Heath Boards), remains in a state, the destruction of a national health service and its replacement of a two level service where the wealthy will get what they want whilst public patients will suffer as they continue to do will continue with the advent of Co-Location

The country sits in congestion, Dublin area particularly as well the regional cities as terrible planning takes its toll. despite the fact Motorways are being built at a record rate it is not enough, only now is Public Transport being discussed with Transport 21 - 10 years too late, our car dependent culture is going to be particularly receptive to further increases in Petroleum prices, and dont forget Ireland will at some point will have to sign up to tougher Emissions standards so prepare for massive fines for breaking polluting standards

I could go on but im ranting!