So gutted over job rejection

Dudess

Hi guys,

I recently went for a job I really wanted. My mate was actually leaving the position so she was able to give her boss my CV.
I made sure to tailor my CV so that it ticked every box in terms of requirements, and ditto with my cover letter. I know I was suitable for the job.
Anyway, earlier today, I got an email advising me I was unsuccessful. I didn't get an interview.

I know I shouldn't even think about it and just move on, but right now I'm finding I can't. I would just love to know why I didn't even get an interview. I have the relevant skills and experience so I'm wondering whether I was unsuccessful due to one or more of the following reasons:

- I'm a friend of the girl who's leaving the job in question so they didn't want it to look like they were practising favouritism
- I'm overqualified - that might sound arrogant but it's a media/administrative position (in a publicity department) and I have years of experience in administration, over 18 months' freelance radio researcher work, and one of my admin jobs was in the editorial section of a newspaper. I also have a masters in journalism. The money is not meant to be good and it's not advertised as a permanent position (rather it's a contract til the end of 2008 with "the possibility of expansion") so maybe they wanted someone with less experience?

I'm just so sick of this. If I go for administrative positions I'm over-qualified, if I go for media positions I'm under-qualified. The above job seemed perfect though cos it kinda met the two in the middle.
I've gone for admin positions with RTE and TV3 and I haven't even been shortlisted for interview - I've no doubt they probably think "she's done journalism, she's probably only going for this job as a way of getting her foot in the door to progress to the newsroom". Not strictly true as I know it doesn't really work that way in the media. Often you get your "foot in the door" and it gets stuck there. But I can't really blame them for thinking that either.
I went for an admin position with a state media organisation recently too and got a PFO yesterday. I just think I'm gonna be a typist for the rest of my life. I'm absolutely weary from all the rejections. It's making me feel so useless.

Karoma

- (c) - They didn't like your friend.
- (d) - They have someone else lined up. Maybe a friend of the manager...

Who knows? Ask them for more feedback or move on. Know what you know. There will be other opportunities. You'll get there in the end.

Hellm0

Hey Dudess,
I wouldn't worry too much. Media is a notoriously difficult racket to break into and I'm sure these people get alot of applications. The fact of the matter is however that, if this is a job you really want, you will get it eventually. Seeing as you have a masters + experiance I cannot really say why they might not have considered you but maybe it was favoritism, just not in your benefit?

Either way as a well qualified professional your just going to have to keep the chin up and keep sending out those applications until you get your break. It will come someday:)

jdivision

Dudess, you're overqualified and I'd say they'd think you'd be bored doing it. I know one of my mates didn't get an admin job in place I work for that reason. Re: RTE, they often advertise when they've people already lined up to do the job. In the media, the successful candidate has often been approached for a journalism job before it gets advertised. They just have to advertise it out of necessity for employment legislation.

Dudess

Thanks a mil Hellm0 and jdivision

Karoma wrote: »

- (c) - They didn't like your friend.
- (d) - They have someone else lined up. Maybe a friend of the manager...

Who knows? Ask them for more feedback or move on. Know what you know. There will be other opportunities. You'll get there in the end.

Yeah it's hard to say but I'm just wondering if those versed in recruitment policies/politics would reckon my theories are plausible. They definitely do like my friend. She was sad to leave but got offered a salary she couldn't refuse at another place. Option (d)... yeah, not beyond the realms of possibility, but why did they advertise so? It's only state organisations that are obliged to advertise positions.
I've requested feedback all right.

Edit: it's the press department of a private company. And the other PFO I got was from a media watchdog type organisation, not RTE.

is_that_so

In my experience multinationals used to do it as well , mostly for the sake of transparency. So that even if a friend of the boss got the job , there was a list of candidates and interviews. It's hard to say sometimes why we don't get jobs.
It can end up being one small thing that the interviewer was looking for. There'll be other better days:)

Karoma

As above; plus, they don't want to offend anyone already working for them who may also want to go for the position. Politics! *shrug*

Ring them and politely ask them for feedback, if you need closure that much?

mike65

All of the above quite likely - the who you know syndrome alive and well.

Have you considered dumbing down your CV for certain applications?

Mike.

Dudess

Although in my case there was someone I know in there, but I think it might have worked against me.
Yes, I have indeed considered dumbing down my CV. It's sometimes hard to know whether or not to do it though.

Sherifu

Job hunting takes patience, try not to let it get you down.

AARRRGH

Maybe...

1. They want someone different than your friend, and they feel you'll just be another version of her?
2. The person who reviewed your application is a moron? It's possible...
3. They want to change the job spec a bit, and your skills don't quite match up?
4. Your friend bad mouthed you...? Nasty...

Job hunting sucks.

cronos

If your friend got on well with the boss it should be ok for her to ask her old boss. She can do it in a round about nice way in the middle of an email saying how things are getting on in her new job... A friendly email.

newestUser

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it."

-- W.C. Fields

Sorry to sound this note. My sister was looking to establish a career in media, the lack of opportunities just wore her down, and she retrained as a primary school teacher.

There aren't that many opportunities in the line of work you're going for. I think if you want to crack into an industry where opportunities are scarce, you have to be *ferociously*, scarily committed to it. And you have put up with all sorts of misery and loneliness.

Why put yourself through this? What's your motivation? Why choose, and persist, trying to build a career in this line of work, when there are other careers which offer much more opportunities?

MIN2511

Dudess wrote: »

Although in my case there was someone I know in there, but I think it might have worked against me.
Yes, I have indeed considered dumbing down my CV. It's sometimes hard to know whether or not to do it though.

Don't do that, why would you dumb down your CV just so you could get a job. You already know you are over qualified for the position why don't you keep looking. No one likes job hunting but we have to.


I know you are disappointed but it's time to move on
btw how long have you been searching? Have you thought of a career change?

AARRRGH

Isn't media one of those wanky areas where it's all about who you know?

My previous flatmate was a Journalist for the NY Times and managed to get lots of writing and media jobs by hanging out with lots of dickhead media types.

Could you start drinking in the pubs Journalists drink in?

ntlbell

I think once you get to a certain age and have built up a certain amount of exp obviously depending on the field it can get really tough.

I recently applied for a job that demanded a ton of exp which I just sneaked under etc and I got the aul your too experienced I think this is really just short for we'll have to pay you too much readies.

I have to say I'm very picky myself when looking through CV's for us here and the slightest thing can turn me off a CV for probably what look to anyone else a very silly reason but I forget this when I'm applying for work and expect everyone to notice how great I am.

There's so many reasons you get knocked back it really isn't worth thinking about. Have you considered studying something else? I'm 29 and strongly considering getting out of IT and going back to college as I'm starting to realize maybe I was wrong.

knock backs suxor.

ntlbell

dublindude wrote: »

Isn't media one of those wanky areas where it's all about who you know?

My previous flatmate was a Journalist for the NY Times and managed to get lots of writing and media jobs by hanging out with lots of dickhead media types.

Could you start drinking in the pubs Journalists drink in?

Man if I had to drink with the idiots in donney and nesbits or wherever I'd be happier on the dole.

Jigsaw

Dudess,

I totally feel your pain here. I myself have been applying for jobs constantly over the past year and a half as I am fed up with what I currently do and rejection after rejection does get you down. Well I know it gets me down anyway so. :mad:

All I can say is to just keep applying and maintain your hope by always having outstanding applications waiting. Better that than having nothing out there.

I live in Belfast and have a few friends who work in the BBC and it does seem to be a notoriously fickle world to get into.

What exactly is it that you want to do? Writing? Radio broadcasting? Production etc?

Eoin

Dudess wrote:

I'm overqualified - that might sound arrogant but it's a media/administrative position (in a publicity department) and I have years of experience in administration, over 18 months' freelance radio researcher work, and one of my admin jobs was in the editorial section of a newspaper. I also have a masters in journalism. The money is not meant to be good and it's not advertised as a permanent position (rather it's a contract til the end of 2008 with "the possibility of expansion") so maybe they wanted someone with less experience?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if this role isn't entry level, would 2.5 years experience be considered over-qualified (Masters notwithstanding)?

Assuming that the company was happy with your friend, which certainly seems the case from what you've said - how does your experience stack up against hers?

Dudess wrote:

Edit: it's the press department of a private company.

Do you have much experience in the area that the company works in?

Is it a large company where it could take an external candidate a long time to understand the operations? I've seen some instances where an internal candidate may seem under-qualified compared to an external one, but their knowledge of the company (how it works, what they do) makes up for it.

Could be a stupid question, but are you positive your CV is good? Have you been able to get feedback from companies on it, or <shudder> agencies?

AARRRGH

Dudess, would you work as a technical writer? I think we might be looking for a technical writer...

(Not very glamourous, I know.)

DublinWriter

Dudess wrote: »

I've gone for admin positions with RTE and TV3

RTE is notoriously nepotistic and backward looking. You've probably done yourself a big, big favour not getting a job there.

If you are really serious about getting into media then bugger off to the UK. It's all down to who you know in this country as regards working in the media. Don't rule out other English speaking countries such as Canada or Australia.

jdivision

dublindude wrote: »

Isn't media one of those wanky areas where it's all about who you know??

Yes and no. Yes in terms of your contacts make your reputation, no as in most places wouldn't care who you knew there. Maybe at a senior level because there'd be a lot of interaction, but at a lower level it's all about being able to make contacts.

dublindude wrote: »

Could you start drinking in the pubs Journalists drink in?

That whole D&N thing is only for a much older generation.

News International - some in The Corner Stone, some in Solas
The Sunday Tribune - Toners
The Business Post - Solas, The Village, Devitts, Cassidys, Kehoes, Nearys
The Irish Times - The Palace, Bowes, The Long Stone
The Irish Independent - used to be Kielys and K3, not sure since they moved.

jdivision

DublinWriter wrote: »

If you are really serious about getting into media then bugger off to the UK. It's all down to who you know in this country as regards working in the media. Don't rule out other English speaking countries such as Canada or Australia.

You have to want it to succeed - if you're talking about who you know in terms of contacts of course it is, if your'e talking about nepotism then unless it's RTE and the Sindo that's bull. Even the Sindo've approached a few people trying to hire them who wouldn't have that type of background.


Dudess, what's killing you I think is the lack of print experience which is the lifeblood for most PR jobs. From the PR people I've deal with they either have a background in PR to begin with or have worked for a newspaper. You should apply for work experience in a newspaper. Even the six weeks or so will help in that regard. They like to know that your know how newspapers work. Either that or do the nighttime PR Diploma although I think you might have that.

Dudess

dublindude wrote: »

Maybe...
4. Your friend bad mouthed you...?

Nah, definitely not! I know her long enough and well enough to know she wouldn't do that to anyone, let alone a friend.

ntlbell wrote: »

I recently applied for a job that demanded a ton of exp which I just sneaked under etc and I got the aul your too experienced I think this is really just short for we'll have to pay you too much readies.

Yeah, my mate told me the money is very bad - that's why she's leaving, she actually loved the job.

eoin_s wrote: »

if this role isn't entry level, would 2.5 years experience be considered over-qualified (Masters notwithstanding)?

My background briefly: I dropped out of a BA, spent three years in administration - council, then bank (back office), did night courses in Word, Excel, typing etc. I then went back to do another BA and worked part-time for the three years in the editorial section of a national newspaper inputting copy taken over the phone and proof-reading. I was involved in community radio throughout my degree which involved liaising with a lot of press people. And I wrote articles for the college paper and a couple of bits for the paper I was working for. After the degree I stayed working for the newspaper for another year and also got part-time researcher work with a local radio station (on a talk show) - again, a lot of liaising with press officials. Altogether I was doing that for nine months.
At this stage I didn't actually want to be a journalist (as in a news reporter, news-reader etc): I just wanted to be a feature writer and a music presenter (I didn't like radio research at all but I just wanted to have commercial radio experience on my CV). Obviously there aren't full-time jobs in these areas so I needed something to do as a day job. Sub-editing appealed to me since I love words and like to correct poor grammar/punctuation . So I went about trying to get sub-editing work with the newspaper but was told I'd need a qualification in journalism. Off I went to Dublin to do a masters in journalism - as I said, the only areas of journalism I wanted to work in were feature writing (no jobs, something you do on the side) and sub-editing (not very exciting but something I thought I could do, and it would still be within a newspaper so it would then be easier to get features published).
I did my placement as a sub-editor on a Sunday paper. Hated it and wasn't very good at it - got hauled up for being too meticulous and thus too slow. And my headlines were always getting changed.
So that was out the window. And I didn't want to waste the year doing the course (not to mention how much it cost) so when the opportunity for freelance radio research on a high-profile national show came a-knocking, I grabbed it. Even though this really was not what I wanted to do. But I actually enjoyed it and I got valuable experience of liaising with high-profile press officials and I put together a huge list of contacts. However the work was very sparse and I was often going days, even weeks, without work. I supplemented my income with bits of freelance for another national station, which I absolutely hated. This was the real world of radio research, the other place was kind of an exception where there were absolutely no full-time openings. And even if there were, absolutely no guarantee that I'd have a good chance of being appointed.
After nearly a year of being broke and having no stability, I realised it was time to stop trying to justify doing the masters - I couldn't carry on like this. I got a straightforward office job through a reputable agency and was a lot happier. The girl at the agency helped me put together my CV and I was able to isolate my strengths - e.g. writing skills, communication skills, attention to detail. She happened to remark that I'd fit the bill for working in press communications. It had never occurred to me, apart from PR which seems like a really cut-throat world and you could be dealing with several clients at once. But in-house press offices seemed more appealing. So that's where I decided I'd like to venture, and that's what I'm doing now. I'm keeping an eye out for all in-house communications work - administrative, assistant capacity kinda stuff, not press official work just yet.
But no more journalistic work - it's just too hard to get into. Anyway, as I said, I was never all that interested in becoming a journalist in the first place. But I do want to work in the media.

Assuming that the company was happy with your friend, which certainly seems the case from what you've said - how does your experience stack up against hers?

She got it straight from college (she studied publishing) and her title was Assistant initially but then she got promoted to Executive. But she was still doing the same thing. I definitely ticked all the boxes in the job spec. It's very much administration-based - working as an assistant to the press officer. And it's a temporary contract (initially) with not very good money.

dublindude wrote: »

Dudess, would you work as a technical writer? I think we might be looking for a technical writer

Don't even know what that is but thanks anyway!

Anyway, thanks a mil for all your help guys. Meh, I'm fine about it now. And you know something, maybe I might have felt I ticked the boxes in one sense but I am missing press office experience - although that wasn't specified in the ad, however all the other candidates could have it. No, I don't know if I'm over-qualified - I think it was just the disappointment at not even getting an interview that caused me to blurt that out. I certainly didn't think I was owed the job or anything but not even an interview was a bit of a kick in the teeth.
But anyhoo, it's done with now. Onwards and upwards - hi ho Silver, away! etc.

Cheers guys!

MIN2511

From your post in PI it seems you have an interview on Monday or so?


All the best in that and keep us posted

Have you thought of lecturing?

Dudess

Cheers

Yeah, I do have an interview Monday and I'm delighted about it, but I thought I might have a couple of other things to fall back on if I didn't get that, and it's turned out I haven't, so it's particularly valuable to me now!

Ooh yeah, lecturing would be lovely. Again, hard to get into like journalism, and not much stability either - until you get full-time, which ain't easy to get apparently.

As regards the returning to college thing, I'd do that part-time PR diploma all right.

jdivision

Dudess, start volunteering in Anna Livia? Just shows you are still involved in stuff. I think maybe look at consumer PR too. Not that stressful based on people I've talked to in it. I think most companies would want their inhouse people to have worked in PR already, probably for three years. Where did you get the cut-throat idea about PR btw? My mates who went into it says it's busy but hardly cut-throat

have a look here. Some nice people in WHPR, a few dick*eads too.
http://www.prii.ie/cgi-bin/career.asp?idarticle=30

cronos

Dudess wrote: »

Nah, definitely not! I know her long enough and well enough to know she wouldn't do that to anyone, let alone a friend.

Yeah, my mate told me the money is very bad - that's why she's leaving, she actually loved the job.

My background briefly: I dropped out of a BA, spent three years in administration - council, then bank (back office), did night courses in Word, Excel, typing etc. I then went back to do another BA and worked part-time for the three years in the editorial section of a national newspaper inputting copy taken over the phone and proof-reading. I was involved in community radio throughout my degree which involved liaising with a lot of press people. And I wrote articles for the college paper and a couple of bits for the paper I was working for. After the degree I stayed working for the newspaper for another year and also got part-time researcher work with a local radio station (on a talk show) - again, a lot of liaising with press officials. Altogether I was doing that for nine months.
At this stage I didn't actually want to be a journalist (as in a news reporter, news-reader etc): I just wanted to be a feature writer and a music presenter (I didn't like radio research at all but I just wanted to have commercial radio experience on my CV). Obviously there aren't full-time jobs in these areas so I needed something to do as a day job. Sub-editing appealed to me since I love words and like to correct poor grammar/punctuation . So I went about trying to get sub-editing work with the newspaper but was told I'd need a qualification in journalism. Off I went to Dublin to do a masters in journalism - as I said, the only areas of journalism I wanted to work in were feature writing (no jobs, something you do on the side) and sub-editing (not very exciting but something I thought I could do, and it would still be within a newspaper so it would then be easier to get features published).
I did my placement as a sub-editor on a Sunday paper. Hated it and wasn't very good at it - got hauled up for being too meticulous and thus too slow. And my headlines were always getting changed.
So that was out the window. And I didn't want to waste the year doing the course (not to mention how much it cost) so when the opportunity for freelance radio research on a high-profile national show came a-knocking, I grabbed it. Even though this really was not what I wanted to do. But I actually enjoyed it and I got valuable experience of liaising with high-profile press officials and I put together a huge list of contacts. However the work was very sparse and I was often going days, even weeks, without work. I supplemented my income with bits of freelance for another national station, which I absolutely hated. This was the real world of radio research, the other place was kind of an exception where there were absolutely no full-time openings. And even if there were, absolutely no guarantee that I'd have a good chance of being appointed.
After nearly a year of being broke and having no stability, I realised it was time to stop trying to justify doing the masters - I couldn't carry on like this. I got a straightforward office job through a reputable agency and was a lot happier. The girl at the agency helped me put together my CV and I was able to isolate my strengths - e.g. writing skills, communication skills, attention to detail. She happened to remark that I'd fit the bill for working in press communications. It had never occurred to me, apart from PR which seems like a really cut-throat world and you could be dealing with several clients at once. But in-house press offices seemed more appealing. So that's where I decided I'd like to venture, and that's what I'm doing now. I'm keeping an eye out for all in-house communications work - administrative, assistant capacity kinda stuff, not press official work just yet.
But no more journalistic work - it's just too hard to get into. Anyway, as I said, I was never all that interested in becoming a journalist in the first place. But I do want to work in the media.

She got it straight from college (she studied publishing) and her title was Assistant initially but then she got promoted to Executive. But she was still doing the same thing. I definitely ticked all the boxes in the job spec. It's very much administration-based - working as an assistant to the press officer. And it's a temporary contract (initially) with not very good money.

Don't even know what that is but thanks anyway!

Anyway, thanks a mil for all your help guys. Meh, I'm fine about it now. And you know something, maybe I might have felt I ticked the boxes in one sense but I am missing press office experience - although that wasn't specified in the ad, however all the other candidates could have it. No, I don't know if I'm over-qualified - I think it was just the disappointment at not even getting an interview that caused me to blurt that out. I certainly didn't think I was owed the job or anything but not even an interview was a bit of a kick in the teeth.
But anyhoo, it's done with now. Onwards and upwards - hi ho Silver, away! etc.

Cheers guys!

Technical Writer is a person who writes technical documents like a user manual for a piece of software. Which means working in a technical field with engineers and working out how you can translate how they understand an application into a form that normal users who arent as technically minded can understand.

Gordon

WRT being overly qualified. It's important not to hire someone that is over qualified as they can easily jump ship after training. Sometimes training can cost quite a bit of money, or simply the time and effort spent into actually finding someone and interviewing a bulk load of people can cost in other ways. So finding someone that is perfectly qualified is what you have to get. Failing that, someone slightly underqualified but with a passion to succeed.

I've hired a person that was obviously over qualified and they ended up leaving a week later. That's when I learned my lesson.

AARRRGH

Is it possible to write current affairs pieces and just submit them to newspapers and magazines?

MIN2511

dublindude wrote: »

Is it possible to write current affairs pieces and just submit them to newspapers and magazines?

You mean freelance?

MIN2511

Something just came into mind, why do you want to work in media when you have actively tried different areas and you admitted you don't like?
Would you consider moving to the UK?

Dudess

jdivision wrote: »

I think most companies would want their inhouse people to have worked in PR already, probably for three years.

But not for entry-level administrative/assistant stuff though. That's all I'm looking for.
Cheers for the PRII link. Yeah I check that often - a lot of jobs come up.

dublindude wrote: »

Is it possible to write current affairs pieces and just submit them to newspapers and magazines?

Oh it is, and I've done it, but it's not enough to live on.

MIN2511 wrote: »

Something just came into mind, why do you want to work in media when you have actively tried different areas and you admitted you don't like?

Yes but communications is something that would interest me. That's actually not working in the media anyway - I phrased that badly earlier - it's more dealing with the media.

newestUser

Are you flexible with regards to location? As far as I know, you're from Cork, are you applying for jobs in Dublin? Or even the UK, as someone else has suggested?

What's the attraction of working as an in-house press officer anyway (whatever that is! I know nothing about media/PR)? It seems like a very niche role to set your heart on, based on a comment made by a recruitment agent about your CV.

Gotta be honest, I get the impression you're too invested emotionally in your BA and your journalism MA, and you're trying to make them 'lead on' to something.

Diairist

At 1 a.m. this morning I was actually suggesting in-house pres officer but Karma / gremlins wanted me out of the way while this (excellent) suggestion was made. My web connection went down, couldn't revive it, went for a jog and was pulled over by a plain car containing 3 detectives!!! It went civilly and ended ok but they and I seem to agree: stay away from people with screwdrivers. Stay in a residential area where the greatest menace to society is people cycling without high viz jackets. But let’s not descend into cynicism shall we?

On a parallel note, Dudess, PASSION FLOWER and VALERIAN may prove useful.

jdivision

dublindude wrote: »

Is it possible to write current affairs pieces and just submit them to newspapers and magazines?

You can but why would a newspaper/magazine run them. That's what their political staff do and they occasionally take pieces from well-known commentators. No offence to Dudess but she wouldn't be well known. Good luck in job interview by the way. I think you're aiming too low going for an admin/PR job but if you're happy with it it doesn't matter!

Dudess

Gordon wrote: »

WRT being overly qualified. It's important not to hire someone that is over qualified as they can easily jump ship after training. Sometimes training can cost quite a bit of money, or simply the time and effort spent into actually finding someone and interviewing a bulk load of people can cost in other ways. So finding someone that is perfectly qualified is what you have to get. Failing that, someone slightly underqualified but with a passion to succeed.

I've hired a person that was obviously over qualified and they ended up leaving a week later. That's when I learned my lesson.

Hmmm. That situation is probably very rare though. Sometimes people are still happy to take a job that they might appear over-qualified for - that's why they go for it in the first place! But yeah, some people just apply all over the place so that they can have something to fall back on, others might have one idea in their head about the job, then when they start it they might regret taking it at all - which is what seems was the case with your guy.

newestUser wrote: »

Are you flexible with regards to location? As far as I know, you're from Cork, are you applying for jobs in Dublin? Or even the UK, as someone else has suggested?

Dublin all the way. There isn't a hope of work like that in Cork. The UK, yeah I've considered it.

What's the attraction of working as an in-house press officer anyway (whatever that is! I know nothing about media/PR)? It seems like a very niche role to set your heart on, based on a comment made by a recruitment agent about your CV.

It's the department that deals with the media - a junior role would involve writing press releases, corresponding with media people (journos, programme researchers), organising interviews for the senior press official(s) etc. It's not that niche at all really - it's admin but would require some level of familiarity with the media. It's not just the comment by the recruitment agent. I'd had PR in my head for a long time, but felt it would be a tough area to work in (having friends who have done so). Working for an agency could involve dealing with press for several companies (clients) and there are so many other PR agencies I'm sure it gets very competitive. Working in a company with its own press department would obviously only involve dealing with one client and competitiveness wouldn't even be an issue.

Gotta be honest, I get the impression you're too invested emotionally in your BA and your journalism MA, and you're trying to make them 'lead on' to something.

You're not wrong. I want to use my journalism MA. But I'm good at administrative work, I have the writing skills, I have the communication skills (I used to think that phrase was a load of bollocks, but it really means someone who's a people person and not everyone is good at dealing with people, whereas I have no problem with it. I actually thrive in a work environment that involves dealing with a lot of people). And I've the media knowledge, so press/communications would be the perfect place to combine the two.

jdivision wrote: »

You can but why would a newspaper/magazine run them. That's what their political staff do and they occasionally take pieces from well-known commentators. No offence to Dudess but she wouldn't be well known.

Yep, you need to come up with very original ideas to get published - I've only been published a handful of times by sending articles on spec. And it's risky too, as your idea could be nicked.

Good luck in job interview by the way.

Thanks a mil

I think you're aiming too low going for an admin/PR job but if you're happy with it it doesn't matter!

Well all I want to do journalistically is write music/film/book-related articles. No jobs there sadly! Just submitting freelance articles. One paper I write book reviews for doesn't even pay, instead I get the book! :rolleyes:
As for radio, I really just want to be a rawk DJ.
So it's not like I want to be a journalist - as I said, the reason why I did the masters was to be a sub-editor. Don't know what I was on, to be honest! But I have a media background and I want to put it to use for my day job. When you say "aiming too low" what do you think I should go for? Unfortunately I am under-qualified for a lot of media roles. Whereas, for now, an administrative entry level position would be a good place to start, then I'd obviously try to move up. And I'd do that PR diploma at night.

Thanks a mil for your information, Diairist.

Just got a text from my mate. She says they actually got a good lot of applications from people with press office experience so there's my explanation!

Thanks again all! I've got a great response here. Didn't expect it. Mucho appreciated!

Running Bing

Dudess wrote: »

Hmmm. That situation is probably very rare though. Sometimes people are still happy to take a job that they might appear over-qualified for - that's why they go for it in the first place! But yeah, some people just apply all over the place so that they can have something to fall back on, others might have one idea in their head about the job, then when they start it they might regret taking it at all - which is what seems was the case with your guy.

The impression I would get from just reading this thread is, the money is ****, you have pretty good qualifications but you cant get a foot in the door so your planning to do the job, get some good experience on your CV and jump ship for somewhere better paying.


Now that could be completely wrong, a million miles away from the truth but thats irrelevent. The point is many people reading your CV for the position will feel this way.

Dudess

Press office work is definitely what I want to do with my life - not as a means to an end, but as my career. I'm happy to start doing entry level stuff, but then of course I'm gonna move on. Wouldn't anyone?

watna

Dudess, I have the PRII diploma if you want to ask any questions! I never actually used it, I wasn't up for the cut-throat world of PR after all but I have found it useful for communication skills and giving me some kind of business qualification (you do a business module).

Good luck with the job hunt. I feel your pain. I'm not sure what i want to do with my life either. I don't think I want to stay in Recruitment. I'm interested in PA roles but every time I mention it to people they say "I'm better than that". I always thought it was quite a good job. I can see you getting similar responses here, that admin isn't worthwhile but I don't think this is necessarily true!

Eoin

Babybing wrote: »

The impression I would get from just reading this thread is, the money is ****, you have pretty good qualifications but you cant get a foot in the door so your planning to do the job, get some good experience on your CV and jump ship for somewhere better paying.


Now that could be completely wrong, a million miles away from the truth but thats irrelevent. The point is many people reading your CV for the position will feel this way.

Yeah, but unless they were flooded with applicants, you'd think they would want to at least spend an hour interviewing her if her CV did match up with what they were looking for.

newestUser

Dudess wrote: »

I have the communication skills (I used to think that phrase was a load of bollocks, but it really means someone who's a people person and not everyone is good at dealing with people, whereas I have no problem with it. I actually thrive in a work environment that involves dealing with a lot of people).

I don't agree with this (but that might only be in the case of the sector I work in). Definitely in the science/technology sector, good communication skills means that:

- you can think quickly, and communicate *VERY* complex and abstract ideas to people effectively, you can place your ideas in their heads. Not easy if the subject under discussion is complex.

- you know how to transfer information and knowledge effectively to people who don't have the same background/training/education as you. This can be difficult, I know people who assume everyone's on the same level as them and talk about the most horrendously abstract concepts as if this were so.

- you've a decent level of self-awareness, and can distance yourself from your message - you can communicate on behalf of someone else without your ego intruding on the message. You'd be surprised how often this happens.

As an example, a job spec (IT research related) I was looking at required the applicant to communicate with medical pathologists/consultants, and required 'good communication skills'. This doesn't mean that the guy doing the hiring was looking for a bubbly,popular people person, rather it means that he's looking for someone who can do complex, demanding work that demands co-operation amongst highly educated professionals who are trained in a different field, and that you will be able to share complex ideas amongst each other quickly and effectively (which, when the ideas are complicated, is not easily accomplished).

Be careful that you don't sell yourself as a 'people person' to an employer who's looking for 'communication skills', because they mightn't be looking for that.

Dudess

newestUser wrote: »

- you can think quickly, and communicate *VERY* complex and abstract ideas to people effectively, you can place your ideas in their heads. Not easy if the subject under discussion is complex.

- you know how to transfer information and knowledge effectively to people who don't have the same background/training/education as you. This can be difficult, I know people who assume everyone's on the same level as them and talk about the most horrendously abstract concepts as if this were so.

- you've a decent level of self-awareness, and can distance yourself from your message - you can communicate on behalf of someone else without your ego intruding on the message. You'd be surprised how often this happens.

Yep, the above would apply in what I want to do also.

Gordon

Dudess wrote: »

Hmmm. That situation is probably very rare though. Sometimes people are still happy to take a job that they might appear over-qualified for - that's why they go for it in the first place! But yeah, some people just apply all over the place so that they can have something to fall back on, others might have one idea in their head about the job, then when they start it they might regret taking it at all - which is what seems was the case with your guy.

No, my guy was biding his time until he got a job that was on a par with his actual qualifications. Then there's a woman that's pregnant and hasn't revealed her pregnancy until not far into the job and the guy that needs to get a job within a certain timeframe or he loses his benefits (last two cases are not examples in Ireland)

newestUser

Dudess wrote: »

Press office work is definitely what I want to do with my life - not as a means to an end, but as my career. I'm happy to start doing entry level stuff, but then of course I'm gonna move on. Wouldn't anyone?

Continuing with my negativity (sorry, I'm just playing devil's advocate here):

I'm ignorant of what the job entails, but press office work sounds to me a little mundane to be 'a calling' or 'a vocation'. Would you be gutted if you invested all this time, energy, and hope in something that it turned out didn't float your boat? After all, you've said yourself that several roles you've tried didn't meet your expectations. What if this one didn't either?

And just to be *really* intrusive, sanctimonious, and nosey:

Why work in what you consider to be a dead-end job while you look for your dream job, when your day job could be a stepping stone to a viable alternative career, should your first choice not pan out?

Dudess

No probs! It's all advice and very much appreciated

Well working in publicity would entail dealing directly with the media, organising events like press conferences, launches etc. I'd really love that. But since I don't have any experience I'm gonna have to start off with an admin position in a press office environment - I'd be happy with that too, and able for it as it would combine administration with media knowledge. Perfect for me really.

Zulu

Firstly - I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll apologise for being lazy and hope no one else has said this: ask them directly.


<edit> jesus, post 5 - "I've requested feedback all right. - Dudess" I'm sorry,

Seriously, either write and ask or ring and ask. Make it clear you are not cribbing about not getting the position; that you understand you weren't successful.
But explain that you'd like "constructive criticism"/advice/pointers on where you might have gone wrong, and how you can avoid the same in the future.
They may well well fob you off, but in the slim chance the person is helpful you could pick up something worth while.
There's no harm in it.

Dudess

Cheers. Yeah, email sent on Tuesday afternoon. Still waiting...

But my mate has told me since that there were lots of applications and they were keen to get someone with press office experience so that's my answer. I was frustrated initially at not even getting an interview but that was just me being knee-jerk.

jdivision

I think with your MA in journalism that you'd get a regular job in PR. I don't think you need to start out doing administration stuff other than what everybody does as part of their job. That's what I mean by aiming too low. I think you had/have another interview. Good luck with it.

Dudess

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm 29 and strongly considering getting out of IT and going back to college as I'm starting to realize maybe I was wrong.

What about going for a job in McDonalds...?

jdivision wrote: »

I think with your MA in journalism that you'd get a regular job in PR. I don't think you need to start out doing administration stuff other than what everybody does as part of their job. That's what I mean by aiming too low. I think you had/have another interview. Good luck with it.

Thanks a mil . Had the interview today. You can never tell really, but I didn't come out of it thinking "sh1t, what a mess I made" so I'm happy, and if I don't get it so be it.
Yeah, I'd probably get on ok in a PR position but unfortunately whenever one is advertised, lots of people with PR experience are bound to go for it, so already that's me out of the equation - fair enough really.
Thanks for the advice anyway, fellow Joy Division fan.
And thanks everyone else too!