Extremely Shy Brother

ainet · 04-03-2008 7:59am #1

Hi,
I don't know where to start with this one. I'm worried about my brother at this stage, it seems as if his life is never going to begin.
My Brother is 24 years of age. He is extremely shy, painfully shy. He has no friends at all. Has never had a girlfriend. Has never had a job. Has dropped out of any college course he went to after a few weeks. All this is down to his shyness as far as I'm concerned.(Maybe I'm wrong?) He was on the dole but my sister noticed that he hadnt any money lately and questioned him. He said he wasnt cut off, that he just didn't bother going in for it anymore. Think they were getting onto him over not looking for work and he wasn't able to take it.
Our parents are separated and don't speak to each other and haven't done in 4 years. My brother did live with my mother at first, but he moved in with my dad as soon as she got on his back about getting a job. My dad had got onto him a few times about getting a job, but I think he was afraid of putting too much pressure on him. I think my dad is afraid of him becoming suicidal, My dads brothers son hung himself over college pressure.
My brother wouldn't really have any social skills at all and is still quite immature.
Something that has me thinking that it might be more than just shyness....when my borther started primary school, he used to vomit when the school bus would come for him. He would run home away from it. My mother would have to drive him and physical drag him out of the car. Then I would have to leave my class and sit with him in Baby Infants becuse he would just cry and cry and want home. So the teachers decided they would have to have me there with him to keep him there.
I don't know what we can do for him...he sits at home all day...on the internet, or playstaion. or playing his guitar. I don't know if it even bothers hm that he has no job, no anything really.

TequilaMockingBird · 04-03-2008 9:17am

That was quite upsetting read. I'm sorry for you and your brother OP. Maybe he needs to see a doctor, talking to a counsellor would help him.

Mr. Incognito · 04-03-2008 9:38am

A kid up the road is like that. I think he has agrophobia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrophobia

He's 27 now and rarely leaves the home and appears to be painfully shy. I'm good mates with his brother and I remember he dropped out of secondary school after a few weeks. I'm no clinical psychologist though. Someone should give him a hand with the dole at least.

Marksie · 04-03-2008 9:39am

ainet wrote: »

I don't know if it even bothers hm that he has no job, no anything really.

Well here is the key.

Is he actually happy?

It is well to voice concerns, but it is up to him to change oif he wants to.

if he is living like this because he happily and consciously chooses to that is one thing, and really should not be interferred with until he decides to change.

However, if he is living like this because he is actually scared of LIVING and interrealting, that is a different matter, he has reverted to a deafult behaviour pattern.
There are a variety fo things that cuold be tried, counselling , CBT or lifecoaching.
But again here is the key, he has to want this and see that he has issues in his life.
You can bring this up with him of course, but its how you do it. demanding he make something of himself is not the way as it may entrench or pressure him further.
Asking him is he happy with his life and guaging his response may be a better approach. All you can do, is get him to think about where he is going, not about where you think he should be going. It is in the end upo to him to effect the change

Sherifu · 04-03-2008 9:39am

+1 for Counseling, dunno what else to suggest. Good luck.

ainet · 04-03-2008 9:44am

Thanks for your reply. He is so shy that I'd doubt he'd even talk to a counsellor. It would be a case of physically dragging him again. I want to help him but I'm not sure I can do anything until he wants to be helped. It's not somethig you can talk to him about, he'd always change the subject and get real uncomfortable.

Sherifu · 04-03-2008 9:48am

I agree with what Marksie said about if he's happy the way things are, he won't change if he doesn't want to. That's all well and good but who's going to support him, he's 24 now.

TequilaMockingBird · 04-03-2008 10:01am

If you can't talk to him, you could try a sensitive letter. It would give him a chance to read it, and take in your worries in his own time.

Marksie · 04-03-2008 10:04am

Sherifu wrote: »

I agree with what Marksie said about if he's happy the way things are, he won't change if he doesn't want to. That's all well and good but who's going to support him, he's 24 now.

It an extra layer of complexity that one is sherifu. It may very well be something that can be said to him to get him to think. But that is all you can do.

But its how you say it.

ainet · 04-03-2008 10:54am

sueme wrote: »

If you can't talk to him, you could try a sensitive letter. It would give him a chance to read it, and take in your worries in his own time.

He probably would be more comfortable with it in writing I suppose. Thanks

KyussBishop · 04-03-2008 11:14am

The Agoraphobia is probably a result of Social Anxiety/Social Phobia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_phobia

The best you can do is encourage him to learn more about it and the various treatments involved, CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) is one of the more common and effective treatments, but it requires work and persistence to get results.

This is a good book specifically about using CBT to treat Social Anxiety:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Social-Anxiety-Behavioural-Techniques/dp/1854877038/
Though it's far better to see a psychologist who knows CBT.

Marksie · 04-03-2008 11:20am

OP I would be careful about medical diagnosis. We are not a medical forum.

Thats for someone qualified

.

Best of luck

Bendihorse · 04-03-2008 11:20am

Watch out for depression issues alright, if hes lost interest in going to collect the dole that doesn't bode well in my eyes... Does he seem happy when hes at home in front of the computer? Its usually possible to read off someone if they are depresed, if its 'shyness' then he should be comfortable and normal in his own home, no need to be shy around people he knows... I think you could see a psychologist yourself, explain his symptoms and see what they suggest... Good Luck OP

CerebralCortex · 04-03-2008 11:26am

Do you ever just talk to him? Ask him how he is? Maybe you should approach him like any other human being (which he is!) and like your brother. It seems from your original post (I could be wrong) that you don't talk to him that much. I know your not responsible for his happiness. But when people are interested in who I am it makes it so much easier for me to open up to them in my experience. All I am saying is don't treat him like a problem because then I think thats how you'll make him feel speaking from personal experience with my family.

Elessar · 04-03-2008 11:50am

It sounds like he definitely has some kind of severe anxiety disorder. Maybe email him your concerns if he gets too uncomfortable talking face to face.

I would imagine that someone living like that is not fond of it and would like to change, at least a bit. Have you discussed this with your parents? I would talk with them yourself, try to find a solution together. Again I imagine he wants to be helped at least a bit but you have to be very careful about how you approach it with him.

It would seem from your post that he is likely a higher risk of suicide than your average joe so I would take this very seriously. It's great that you are so concerned for his welfare. Good luck.

Keep us updated.

ainet · 04-03-2008 11:56am

Ah yeah, I get on good with him, I would talk to him alot. He's not shy with me or at home. It's just I don't talk to him on this subject as I've never wanted to make a big deal out of it....hoping in time he'd find a course/job he was interested in. It's getting worrying now as he gets older and hasn't showed any interest in moving out of his "safe zone" at home.
I've often asked him if he gets bored at home all day on his own, he says no that he's grand. I try to bring him out during the week, even just to lunch or to a shopping center when I'm going, the odd time he'll come. If he just got his first job, he'd realise it's not that scary out there.

gollyitsolly · 04-03-2008 12:02pm

You say hes on the internet.Why dont you encourage him to talk about himself on Boards? Someone might get through to him .It cant hurt and no one would have to know who he is. He probably thinks hes odd because he has no girfriend or social life. This makes him withdrawn and antisocial.But he has plenty of time.Talking is always good and it might be a start..........

Lux23 · 04-03-2008 12:18pm

I have a cousin with similar problems who is exactly the same age. His mother has tried everything even getting a psychiatrist to the house to see him but the he couldn't treat him as my cousin just wouldn't talk to him.

One thing I would try and get him to do is to see a doctor and they will certify as sick and he should qualify for disabilty rather than the dole. The shrink that saw my cousin was able to do that at least. At least then he will have a few quid to dress himself and contribute something to the house. A doctor may also be able to explain to him that he is really suffering from an illness and is not 'weird' or 'odd'. If he knew what his problem maybe he could over time learn to cope with his fears. Its sounds like his school and unfortuately your parents really cocked up early on and didn't get him help when he was 4. Its very sad.

Call Me Jimmy · 04-03-2008 12:45pm

ainet wrote: »

I've often asked him if he gets bored at home all day on his own, he says no that he's grand. I try to bring him out during the week, even just to lunch or to a shopping center when I'm going, the odd time he'll come. If he just got his first job, he'd realise it's not that scary out there.

I can tell you now that when he says he's grand deep down he's not. That's what I say when anyone asks me because I don't want to make a big fuss. Although I don't think he's seriously suicidal if he has been like this for a long time I'de say he has become too comfortable with it to actually go through with suicide. But mark my words, he is not happy or content! He is comfortable and that's it imo.

ainet · 04-03-2008 12:51pm

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I can tell you now that when he says he's grand deep down he's not. That's what I say when anyone asks me because I don't want to make a big fuss. Although I don't think he's seriously suicidal if he has been like this for a long time I'de say he has become too comfortable with it to actually go through with suicide. But mark my words, he is not happy or content! He is comfortable and that's it imo.

Yeah I'd agree with you. If he only knew what it's like to be independent.

ainet · 04-03-2008 1:30pm

Lux23 wrote: »

I have a cousin with similar problems who is exactly the same age. His mother has tried everything even getting a psychiatrist to the house to see him but the he couldn't treat him as my cousin just wouldn't talk to him.

One thing I would try and get him to do is to see a doctor and they will certify as sick and he should qualify for disabilty rather than the dole. The shrink that saw my cousin was able to do that at least. At least then he will have a few quid to dress himself and contribute something to the house. A doctor may also be able to explain to him that he is really suffering from an illness and is not 'weird' or 'odd'. If he knew what his problem maybe he could over time learn to cope with his fears. Its sounds like his school and unfortuately your parents really cocked up early on and didn't get him help when he was 4. Its very sad.

I was thinking down that line too but I'd be afraid he'd get too comfortable then on disability and never make any effort with his life. It might actaully make him feel worse that a Doctor thinks he should be on disability...maybe he doesn't see it as a big deal yet.

Call Me Jimmy · 04-03-2008 2:41pm

I think the big problem here is that, unless he is challenged he absolutely will not change. Unless it comes to a point where there is no food being put on his table and he is absolutely starving he won't do anything. While I understand you don't want to push him out of fear of what he might do, as long as he is being provided for he will stay the same.

Sqaull20 · 04-03-2008 2:59pm

ainet wrote: »

If he just got his first job, he'd realise it's not that scary out there.

Yep thats the first step...

Whats he interested in/what did he do in College for that short time?

Once he gets that first job and sticks with it, everything else will fall into place imo...

He needs a shock to the system, if that was my father he would cut the electric and burn the pc

LegacyUser · 04-03-2008 4:21pm

Just wanted to mention that something like Asperger's disorder could also make it very difficult for someone to relate to people, even if they really want to and try their best.

chuci · 04-03-2008 4:29pm

my brother used be like this he was a bit younger though when he sorted it out. he was so so shy he wouldnt interact with anyone outside our house he could just about talk to our grandparents who we would have seen quite regularly at that time. my parents were realyy worried about him when he went to secondary school as they were worried about him being bullied, i was too but i was made of stronger material; so it didnt bother me and i could talk about it.

it all changed though when my brother got into playing war craft type games it was called war hammer and he spent ages decorating and painting the figures but realised he was only going to really enjoy it when he found other people to play. so eventually after a lot of persuasion he can into town with me and the two of us went to join him to a club that play this game with total strangers. i went with him for the first few weeks but he told me he didnt need me there any more after about a month.

now he is like a different person he has a good nice friends goes on holidays with them has friends that are girls (which he had an awful problem talking to them) but no girlfriend afaik yet. he has a part time job and goes to collage and has expanded social circles still doesnt go to pubs or clubs etc but lots of people dont like these. we are just proud of him feel free to pm me if you want.

good luck, jane

Numpty · 04-03-2008 6:49pm

If he doesnt feel ready to work or go to college, maybe FAS could help him. I used to be similiar to this and found doing a FAS course helped me get back into a normal routine. Its not a stressful as college and you get a weekly allowance so that would cover his expenses. You could even do a night course with him to show him the idea of it and get him interested in it.

They also do jobs clubs to help people get back to work or with interviews and CV's etc. I would also highly recommend that for him as it would really give him confidence looking for work. Confidence is really big here as saying get a job is one thing but you need to realise that even a simple interview would be very hard as he'll have a huge gap to explain on his CV with no good reason for it.

I also used to say I was happy or pretend like it didnt matter when people people gave me grief and laughed at me but I felt completely worthless as I couldnt see how to change and I admit I was feeling suicidal because of it. Certainly avoiding the issue is not the way to go so if I was you I would just sit him down and talk about it generally, not confronting or ridiculing him and see how that goes.

JuliusCaesar · 04-03-2008 7:33pm

Would he make a start maybe with online counselling? Or even joing a chatroom for people with similar difficulties? only danger with the second suggestion is that they might all say there's no hope, life is awful

http://www.socialphobia.org/
http://groups.msn.com/socialphobia/
http://psychcentral.com/resources/Depression/Support_Groups/

marthaclark · 04-03-2008 7:38pm

In some ways I think you should let him be, and accept him. Let him know he is accepted and respected. That he's not a failure, that he can talk to you, that you do understand. Don't judge him. It sounds like he is pretty fragile and not ready to face up to things. So be there for him. Don't make it harder. I'm not an expert.. but I think you should read this article.

I know at least 3 people on the internet and 2 in reality who would basically fall into this category by their own admission.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

There are some really interesting articles about this 'new social phenomenon'. I don't think it's all that new, or specifically japanese.. but there is not much known about it so it's hard to know what to advise.

*And note is it regarded as a societal group, or social phenomenon.. not a mental problem or disorder. It's a lifestyle. (I'm not saying it doesn't have an impact on the way people function in mainstream society though). It's been causing a lot of debates between psychologists and sociologists in japan as well as further afield. I just thought you might be interested.

LegacyUser · 04-03-2008 8:07pm

Just heard an ad for a program on radio 4 which could be interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/am_i_normal.shtml

Shyness is something you can get over with enough life experience and opportunity.

M

promethius · 05-03-2008 3:21am

sounds like he needs to see someone about this 24 is still young so it's not like his life is ruined or anything

Dave! · 05-03-2008 11:10am

I know it sounds cliché in this forum, but have you suggested he go travelling? I know he has no cash, but either (a) he could use this as motivation to get a job and save up, or (b) someone could give him a bit of a loan to encourage him.

Surely there's place he'd be interested in seeing! And it would give him independence and confidence to be out on his own like that.

Maybe he could work in Oz for a few months?

Just a suggestion.

ainet · 05-03-2008 5:17pm

Thanks for the suggestions.
Doubt he'd go travelling. My sister took him over to live with her and her husband in America 2 years ago....they had to send him home after 4 months...he wouldn't go to any of the jobs they got him and had no intentions of ever working there.
He's been on a fas course and dropped out, it's not anything to do with the course being too hard for him, it's having lunch with his classmates or having to have conversation with them. He used to head off on his own at lunch and call me and chat for ages rather than have to sit with everyone else.
Was talking to my mother about it again, we discuss it regularly, so she asked him about a councellor....was a definite NO from him. So she is going in to have a meeting with the social welfare to explain the situation to see if they can at least give him his dole.
I'm considering doing a night course with him, just to get him started. He was doing web design...so i'll see if I can find anything like that.

Sherifu · 05-03-2008 8:55pm

What does his father say?

TequilaMockingBird · 05-03-2008 9:03pm

Theres no way he will get dole, as you have to be actively looking for work to qualify - if he can't even sign on himself, he won't get it. They will suggest disablility allowance, and I understand your fears about him getting too comfortable with it.

What about Voluntary Work, is there anything that would be close to his heart? Animal welfare, disadvantaged kids (help them with web design etc??),music, environment..? Just a few hours a week would help him get out there.

Extremely Shy Brother

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