e90 320d - some questions

O7Pat

Hi, hoping to upgrade to an imported e90 320d post July. Looking for ALL the toys. Have some questions?

- is the e46 a classier looking car ?

- is it worth paying the premium for an "m sport"? front bumper defo makes it more distinctive/sporty looking put is that it? I won't be driving to the extent that I need the extra performance. About 50% of my driving is on secondary roads, but sometimes think the non m’s are very the same looking. (ie like any other car)

- have been following e92's absolutely excellent posts on the new prices post July, with the big drop in bm prices will it still make sense to import? (ie do I just have to hope that omsp will be reduced accordingly)

- are a lot of the Irish e90’s on the road non metallic or something?? a lot of them (to me ) seem a bit dull, (compared to nice metallic e46’s)

- hoping to go 06/07 with leather, sat nav, memory/heated seats, back window blind plus the standard se spec, will I have to go to 325/330 to get the spec?

Thanks for any thoughts.
Sorry for the long post; wondering am I trying to talk myself out of it at this stage!

flyaway

I recently bought a 03 320d, see my other/first post on this forum. It doesn't have all the extra's that you refer to but I really like it, its metallic and like you said it does stand out more than some of the new shaped ones. When I was looking alot of people said that with the vrt changes there should be alot of good value older models, maybe go for one of these until you decide about the new shape?

Not sure on the other questions but I think the m sports do look a lot better, particularly as it seems that you are looking for a distinctive car.

Seth Brundle

O7Pat wrote: »

- is the e46 a classier looking car ?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I'm still in love with the E30 and nothing else compares. Others love the new style and think I'm mad and stuck in the 80s
Who cares what others think - its what you think that matters!

O7Pat wrote: »

- is it worth paying the premium for an "m sport"? front bumper defo makes it more distinctive/sporty looking put is that it? I won't be driving to the extent that I need the extra performance. About 50% of my driving is on secondary roads, but sometimes think the non m’s are very the same looking. (ie like any other car)

Given that most cars are bog standard, saleability and resale value should be better on a sport model as thee will be more in demand. Coupé will also be easier to shift than saloon

O7Pat wrote: »

- have been following e92's absolutely excellent posts on the new prices post July, with the big drop in bm prices will it still make sense to import? (ie do I just have to hope that omsp will be reduced accordingly)

I think that prices should be so favourable for BMWs that it mightn't make sense to import these but I'm sure others can answer this better.

O7Pat wrote: »

- are a lot of the Irish e90’s on the road non metallic or something?? a lot of them (to me ) seem a bit dull, (compared to nice metallic e46’s)

This, I think, comes down to the fact that people want the car and aren't willing to get a decent one which is why they are frequently bog standard.

O7Pat wrote: »

- hoping to go 06/07 with leather, sat nav, memory/heated seats, back window blind plus the standard se spec, will I have to go to 325/330 to get the spec?

You would have t check the specs @ bmw.ie but all of these should be available on the different models IIRC.

Good luck with it.

Anan1

O7Pat wrote: »

Hi, hoping to upgrade to an imported e90 320d post July. Looking for ALL the toys. Have some questions?

- is the e46 a classier looking car ?

I think so. That said, it doesn't drive anywhere near as well.

O7Pat wrote: »

- is it worth paying the premium for an "m sport"? front bumper defo makes it more distinctive/sporty looking put is that it? I won't be driving to the extent that I need the extra performance. About 50% of my driving is on secondary roads, but sometimes think the non m’s are very the same looking. (ie like any other car)

There is no extra performance, think of it as factory-fitted furry dice.;)

O7Pat wrote: »

- are a lot of the Irish e90’s on the road non metallic or something?? a lot of them (to me ) seem a bit dull, (compared to nice metallic e46’s)!

I don't think so, I think it has more to do with the shape of the car. E90s also look dirty very quickly.

O7Pat wrote: »

- hoping to go 06/07 with leather, sat nav, memory/heated seats, back window blind plus the standard se spec, will I have to go to 325/330 to get the spec?!

All of the above are pretty common on 320ds. If you're looking for the good stuff like adaptive headlights, Logic7 and so on though, you'll find it harder.

O7Pat

Thanks for all the replys lads.

Flyaway good option but am already driving a e46 so wondering will I change up (btw - best of luck with ur new motor fwiw I don't consider it alot of miles and if you got it for (less than?) asking price then not overly expensive)

Anan1 are u saying that the e90 drives better ?

Like the factory fitted furry dice analagy -- true, but I do think it (m sport kit) gives the car distinctiveness.

Finding it hard at this stage to find a fully spec'd one on any of sites.

Still trying to figure out import v. price drop in Ireland (don't think I am ready to spend the money of a new one and won't get the top spec 2nd hand in ireland)

Thanks for replies, original question was probably abit long to get a lot of replies. ??

E92

how much have you to spend?

Cause if you can afford a brand new/nearly new 320d now, why don't you import a 08 325d or a 325i(both of these will cost less in July than a 320d does now both to buy and to tax, especially the 325d with it's €290 tax and 20% VRT) from the UK in July? You clearly have some interest in cars(otherwise you'd have gone for the 318d or the 316i), so why not go for a more powerful and much better sounding model, which will only be a small bit dearer to buy and run every year(especially the diesel which averages 47.9 mpg with a manual gearbox)?

O7Pat

Thanks for that e92 intrigued now.

Think I may be missing something do with your suggestion. Yes would like the 325, as you say have an interest in cars. Was semi happy with the power of a 320. I am not sure how I can get a 08 one for same money.

I was looking at buying post July anyway. Was looking at david prentice and 06/07 (still 20% vrt no ed) bought straight for £22 - £24k (sterling) with exchange bout .75 and vrt post July looking at spending about €35 -€37k, (even this is pushing it, budget was supposed to be €32 -€34 but when went looking not enough and only live once) don’t think a 325 is available for that? Or am I missing something?

What do u think e92 of going for the m sport models?

E92

I think the M Sport is a consequence of marketing men who are interested in sales rather than cars. But if you like it fair enough.

If you import, remember that it's only VRT that's changing, the road tax is the same for anything that's not a 08 car. Only 08 cars will have road tax on emissions(and pre 08 imports that are above 225 g/km will too).

Anything after September 07 in the UK has the EfficientDynamics technology(chrome exhaust pipe(s) on a 320d or a 325i/325d is the way you know), which dramatically cuts CO2 for all models, like a 325i without ED is 203 g/km CO2, while a 325i with ED is 170 g/km CO2. That is enough to get a 325i with ED down 2 VRT categories(32% down to 24%) and means that any 08 one is approximately 1/3rd of the cost of any pre 08 one with ED to tax(€1290 for a pre 08 with ED, €430 for an 08 with ED). If you do decide on a 6 cylinder model,(or even the 320d) if you can at all afford it, get a 08 one with the all important EfficientDynamics(a 320d without ED is actually no greener than a 325d with EfficientDynamics, they both have practically the same CO2 rating IIRC) for the simple reason that the much lower CO2 emissions means much lower taxation for you and therefore will make your car a lot more saleable(hopefully with the goodness of time when people realise that the 6 pot 3 series are only a small bit worse than the 4 pot models for CO2 the 6 cylinder models will be come a lot more desirable and more people will buy them too, at the moment the fact that they are 3.0 litre engines means people will run a mile from a 6 cylinder model).

Have a look at the link in my sig. BMW here have promised to pass on the VRT savings in full to the consumer(which is where I got the notion about the 325 models being cheaper than the 320d), so my educated guesses should be quite accurate(FWIW a new 320d ES will actually have an RRP of €40,781 according to BMW Ireland's MD).

If you're happy with the performance of the 320d that's fine, 163 bhp(177 with ED) minimum should be more than enough I would imagine, but I suggested the 325s because they will have a much nicer sounding engine(especially the petrol)which is part and parcel of have 6 rather than 4 cylinders, a nice boost in power and are nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be for economy(the 325d with ED still averages 48 mpg, a 320d with no ED also managed 48 mpg)(and with tax on emissions, the premium for running a 6 cylinder model has been cut hugely if it's a 08 one).

If you want a manual gearbox, then the diesel attracts lower VRT and road tax(and around 10 mpg better economy too), but if you want an auto, the petrol and diesel models have identical VRT and road tax ratings(the diesel Autos are only a 3 or 4 mpg better than petrol Autos too).

Anan1

O7Pat wrote: »

Anan1 are u saying that the e90 drives better ?

The E90 drives much better than the E46, IMO. It's a lot safer in a crash too.

O7Pat

E92 wrote: »

I think the M Sport is a consequence of marketing men who are interested in sales rather than cars. But if you like it fair enough.

If you import, remember that it's only VRT that's changing, the road tax is the same for anything that's not a 08 car. Only 08 cars will have road tax on emissions(and pre 08 imports that are above 225 g/km will too).

Anything after September 07 in the UK has the EfficientDynamics technology(chrome exhaust pipe(s) on a 320d or a 325i/325d is the way you know), which dramatically cuts CO2 for all models, like a 325i without ED is 203 g/km CO2, while a 325i with ED is 170 g/km CO2. That is enough to get a 325i with ED down 2 VRT categories(32% down to 24%) and means that any 08 one is approximately 1/3rd of the cost of any pre 08 one with ED to tax(€1290 for a pre 08 with ED, €430 for an 08 with ED). If you do decide on a 6 cylinder model,(or even the 320d) if you can at all afford it, get a 08 one with the all important EfficientDynamics(a 320d without ED is actually no greener than a 325d with EfficientDynamics, they both have practically the same CO2 rating IIRC) for the simple reason that the much lower CO2 emissions means much lower taxation for you and therefore will make your car a lot more saleable(hopefully with the goodness of time when people realise that the 6 pot 3 series are only a small bit worse than the 4 pot models for CO2 the 6 cylinder models will be come a lot more desirable and more people will buy them too, at the moment the fact that they are 3.0 litre engines means people will run a mile from a 6 cylinder model).

Have a look at the link in my sig. BMW here have promised to pass on the VRT savings in full to the consumer(which is where I got the notion about the 325 models being cheaper than the 320d), so my educated guesses should be quite accurate(FWIW a new 320d ES will actually have an RRP of €40,781 according to BMW Ireland's MD).

If you're happy with the performance of the 320d that's fine, 163 bhp(177 with ED) minimum should be more than enough I would imagine, but I suggested the 325s because they will have a much nicer sounding engine(especially the petrol)which is part and parcel of have 6 rather than 4 cylinders, a nice boost in power and are nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be for economy(the 325d with ED still averages 48 mpg, a 320d with no ED also managed 48 mpg)(and with tax on emissions, the premium for running a 6 cylinder model has been cut hugely if it's a 08 one).

If you want a manual gearbox, then the diesel attracts lower VRT and road tax(and around 10 mpg better economy too), but if you want an auto, the petrol and diesel models have identical VRT and road tax ratings(the diesel Autos are only a 3 or 4 mpg better than petrol Autos too).

Thanks for that e92, very helpfull. Still on my budget unlikely to stretch to a 08 import. Take what you are saying re the much lower tax costs, but the initial cost of buying is way way higher.

Obviously if I buy pre sept 07 then limited to a 320d with manual to get the 20% vrt.

Take your point about getting an 08 (ed) to make it much more saleable but want all the toys so unlikely to b able to stretch that far. Potential perhaps to get an 07 post sept (ie with ed) from my understanding the 325d will be 20% vrt and the 320d will be 16% vrt.

On this basis will it any sense to import a 07 320d if its not ed cause any cost savings will be offset by the 1/5 increase in vrt ?? (ie 07 non ed is 20% vrt and a ed is 16% vrt)

Also take u point about the marketing men and the m sport but anyone agree that it makes the car more distinctive?

E92

O7Pat wrote: »

Thanks for that e92, very helpfull. Still on my budget unlikely to stretch to a 08 import. Take what you are saying re the much lower tax costs, but the initial cost of buying is way way higher.

Obviously if I buy pre sept 07 then limited to a 320d with manual to get the 20% vrt.

Take your point about getting an 08 (ed) to make it much more saleable but want all the toys so unlikely to b able to stretch that far. Potential perhaps to get an 07 post sept (ie with ed) from my understanding the 325d will be 20% vrt and the 320d will be 16% vrt.

On this basis will it any sense to import a 07 320d if its not ed cause any cost savings will be offset by the 1/5 increase in vrt ?? (ie 07 non ed is 20% vrt and a ed is 16% vrt)

Also take u point about the marketing men and the m sport but anyone agree that it makes the car more distinctive?

No bother. The M Sport is more distinctive, it's uglier:D!

Seriously though, the M Sport is bound to be worse over the bumps because of the bigger tyres, and run flat tyres aren't exactly renowned for their ride comfort. Bigger wheels and tyres means more road noise too, as well as a higher cost when the tyre needs replacing too.

Importing a post September 07 325d with ED would be a good idea except you'll still pay road tax on engine size unless it has an 08 plate. So while you save on the purchase price, you will be paying €1k more to tax the same car every year(or €860 if you prefer the car to change the gears for you)!

Only VRT is being done on emissions after July for ALL cars, road tax is staying the same unless it has a 08 reg.

If you hold out until September then a 57 plate in the UK will be one year old(a 57 plate is September 07-Feb 08, a 08 plate is Mar 08-Aug 08, so a 57 plate over there will only be 6 months old in July), so all you've got to do then is find a 57 plate that was registered in either January or February 08 with the all important EfficientDynamics of course. The whole point of what I'm saying being that because in September a 57 plate will be the third rather than the second newest reg in the UK, it will be worth less then than in July.

JHMEG

I looked at importing nearly new cars a couple of times. Haven't looked at a 3-series but anything I did worked out dearer when VRT was added that what you could get here. Really had to go older than about 2 years before there's a difference.

The VRT people also love checking out BMWs for extras. Last time I was in the VRO they were telling some lad they wanted the spec sheet from the dealer that listed any and all extras (ie they weren't going to just look at the car).

Finally, I think the older one is a lot better looking than the current. I see what you mean about the M kit, I do think the current model is bland. Not sure if the M kit cures that tho. Also, all the current ones on the roads here seem to me to be silver.

(Me on a BMW thread.. shows its a slow night on the motors forum:D)

C_Breeze

E92 wrote: »

Only 08 cars will have road tax on emissions(and pre 08 imports that are above 225 g/km will too).

That's only if you import it after July - if you import before July it will be CC based ... right ??????

jballantine

is it possible to get the centre monitor console (aka like the 5 series) on a 325d if I select sat navigation or whats the situation?

E92

To get satnav you have to get iDrive(unfortunately) for any 3 series. Though why anyone would want iDistract sorry I mean iDrive is beyond me. Whoever designed iDrive should be shot(metaphorically for the PC nutters here of course), iDrive is the second worst thing about BMW(though the latest versions are much improved but still very flawed) after Chris Bangle ruining the styling!

@C_Breeze, not really sure how it works with 08 imports now, but if you buy a new car now you can get it taxed on CO2 OR engine size, whichever is the lower(but not until after you renew in July or later, i.e. you must pay on cc till July, and after that you can change to CO2 if CO2 is cheaper), so I presume the same applies there.

C_Breeze

Thanks E92. - you definitely know your stuff about this.. I thought I understood it 100% but now it seems like they don't know if their going left or right with this so am not so confident in my knowledege.

I ask because I want to get myself an 04/05 Mazda RX-8 from the UK.

I'd be happy to pay the 1.8cc tax (which is what i should be paying if i import before July) but not so happy to pay €2000/yr Co2 tax

... but all this uncertainty is definitely making me very hesitant.

Anan1

C_Breeze wrote: »

I'd be happy to pay the 1.8cc tax

Me too! 1,800cc = 1.8 litres.;)

f22

E92 wrote: »

I think the M Sport is a consequence of marketing men who are interested in sales rather than cars. But if you like it fair enough.

Bit of a blind statement there.

Right back to the e30 the m-sport models stood head and shoulders apart from base models. It's nothing to do with marketing at all, it makes the car look better, full stop. Have a look at sales figures and see how many opt for the sport version.

The e90 is a fairly dull looking car in normal guise and the wheeled arches look empty. It's not the best looking car either as a sport but if you gave people the choice, I can guarantee you most will choose the sport option.

Anan1

f22 wrote: »

Bit of a blind statement there.

Right back to the e30 the m-sport models stood head and shoulders apart from base models. It's nothing to do with marketing at all, it makes the car look better, full stop. Have a look at sales figures and see how many opt for the sport version.

The e90 is a fairly dull looking car in normal guise and the wheeel arches look empty. It's not the best looking car either as a sport but if you gave people the choice, I can guarantee you most will choose the sport option.

As E92 said, if you like it then fair enough. I think M packs are for knackers.

f22

Anan1 wrote: »

As E92 said, if you like it then fair enough. I think M packs are for knackers.

Good man, because tons of knackers order new BMW's don't they.

Isn't it their target audience?

Anan1

f22 wrote: »

Good man, because tons of knackers order new BMW's don't they.

Actually, they do.

f22

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the majority of people who purchase new BMW's (msport or not) are knackers?

Anan1

f22 wrote: »

Are you honestly trying to tell me that the majority of people who purchase new BMW's (msport or not) are knackers?

If you had taken the time to read my posts, you would realize that I am telling you no such thing. You think M packs make BMWs look better, I think M packs are for knackers. This, presumably, is why they are optional equipment.

MercMad

How much is the "knacker pack" anyway , and what do you get for it nowdays on a 3 series ?

JoeA3

mmm, "knacker pack" is very harsh IMO, but each to their own!!

I personally think it looks very nice. It adds ~2k or so to the price I think? It includes different bumpers, side-skirts, 18" alloys, M-sport gear-knob/steering wheel, sill plates. All fairly cosmetic stuff, but I think it looks well.

f22

Would you also consider an S line package for Audi a knacker pack, what about sport/amg packs for Mercs.

In my opinion they all add to the looks of all cars, without being tacky or "knackery". For examle the majority of 5 series on the road are sport models, and they look ****e without it. It's an option because the parts are more expensive, simple as that.

I fully apprecite that you have your own opinion so I'd like to know what you consider looks good on the road at the moment?

Anan1

f22 - We clearly have very different ideas regarding what looks well on a car. Let's just leave it at that, ok?;)

f22

Fair enough, think I'll go and buy a new shell suit:)

Theboinkmaster

Anan1 wrote: »

As E92 said, if you like it then fair enough. I think M packs are for knackers.

What a stupid thing to say, so someone buys a 330i for €70k with the M sport option is a knacker?

Just because you can't afford one - sad

Gatster

I've been cruising Dublin's BMW garages of late and a lot of E90 325+ models seem to have (optional) 18" or even 19" alloys, thus avoiding looking underwheeled...although there is a shocking amount of low spec 4 bangers knocking about with trolley wheels on them :eek:

I quite like the E90 M-pack, but like the 'standard' E90's with decent alloys just as much.

Anan1

f22 wrote: »

Fair enough, think I'll go and buy a new shell suit:)

Anan1

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

What a stupid thing to say, so someone buys a 330i for €70k with the M sport option is a knacker?

Just because you can't afford one - sad

Correct on both counts.;)

Cyrus

m pack for knackers

fair enough, but id hate to be the mug trying to sell an SE in 4-5 years time when everyone is looking for a sport

corboy

Hi Lads and any ladies,
great info in this thread, makes for great reading, just wondering what the craic is with the E90/E46/E30, not sure what these refer are they specs that each model comes in?
What is the IDrive that is reffered to in the thread?

Excuse the ignorance,
Thanks,

Seth Brundle

E90/E46/E30 = the model code - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#Series_Generations
As for i-drive, its the on board computer that controls loads of routine systems - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDrive

Anan1

The E90 is the current (2005 on) 3 series saloon, the E46 was the one before, the E36 came before that and the E30 before that again. iDrive is a silly knob by the gearshift.:)

corboy

Excellent, thank you

corboy

Will IDrive come with all 06 320/520 se's, do I want it if deciding between 2 cars 1 with 1 without?
If the current version isnt great will the software be upgradable or is it a harware issue?

Any thoughts appreciated

Anan1

corboy wrote: »

Will IDrive come with all 06 320/520 se's, do I want it if deciding between 2 cars 1 with 1 without?
If the current version isnt great will the software be upgradable or is it a harware issue?

Any thoughts appreciated

It will only come with cars with factory nav. Personally, I wouldn't buy a car with nav - the BMW system ruins the aesthetic balance of the dashboard. Plus, a Garmin will do the job much better.

E92

iDrive is rubbish, even the latest version in the 7 series is still quite flawed(though much improved over earlier versions).

Avoid.

O7Pat

Thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated.

E92 still toying with your suggestions for going for 08, not sure I can make the figures add up with my budget (and defo not for anything bigger than a 320) Problem of course is if go 07 then (to get vrt reduction) has to post september so not along way off of 08 prices.

The 320d m comes with 17" 45's on the front and 40's on the back; do you think it would be possible to put 45's on the back as well? (I have 40's on 18" at the mo and as mentioned elsewhere would prefer a bit more give on the roads I drive, in fairness have slight mark on one alloy so that may be affecting comfort?)

On the saloon 320d is there room for a spare wheel/space saver or is it just the runflats. Approx what is the price range for runflats and do many places do them.

For servicing is it possible to get a gizmo that downloads the data from the key? At the moment just use an ordinary garage (non main dealer) for servicing and he goes through the list for oil,service 1 and service 11 and checks everything everytime.

Thanks again for all help so far and apols for all the questions again it just a very big purchase for me and want to make sure I am thinking of everything.



Ps.
Afraid to ask this but here goes - e92 you have mentioned in alot of threads that "your not the greatest fan of idrive" just wondering is there a specific reason or is it just not as good as the others, have been lookin for some thought on it on bm forums but must look again.

O7Pat

Sorry won't allow me to edit.

Final question on this (I hope )

For imports is it - over 6,000 km and over 6 months old
or is it - over 6,000km or over 6 months old ?
ie in order not to pay vat.

Niall1234

Cyrus wrote: »

m pack for knackers

fair enough, but id hate to be the mug trying to sell an SE in 4-5 years time when everyone is looking for a sport

Yep. M Sport ones seem to be in demand. Looking for a E46 320d M Sport myself.

Seth Brundle

O7Pat wrote: »

Sorry won't allow me to edit.

Final question on this (I hope )

For imports is it - over 6,000 km and over 6 months old
or is it - over 6,000km or over 6 months old ?
ie in order not to pay vat.

from here...

13. When is VAT chargeable and payable?

New means of transport from other Member States of the EU
In the case of a new means of transport i.e. land vehicles (excluding agricultural tractors) that were supplied six months or less after the date of first entry into service or have travelled 6,000 Kilometres or less, VAT is chargeable and normally payable at the time of registration in the State, even where there is evidence, e.g. an invoice, that VAT was paid in the country of purchase.

O7Pat

kbannon wrote: »

from here...

Thanks dude that may open up new options for me and may make some of e92's suggestions manageable - might, shock horror, even look at a petrol model.

Niall1234 wrote: »

Yep. M Sport ones seem to be in demand. Looking for a E46 320d M Sport myself.

seems to be more of them about now, the e46 m seem to be coming down in price now as well and seem to bec real value. (Making it harder to sell my ordinary one!!)

Any thoughts on downloading the data from the key for servicing -- ie can it be done without a main dealer?



Sorry for the late reply current only sporadic access to net.