Management Company Folded

PDD

Hi Folks,

I've been trying to contact my management company over the past few weeks and I cannot get through to them so I went hunting for info on them and I have found that their status in the CRO registrar is disolved as of Nov'07. Have they done a runner or is are legitimate reasons for disolving the company?

Regards,

Dave

connundrum

Do you mean management company or managing agent?

Can you get details for the developer or the site? They may have details for the current managing agent - the agent could have been switched and you may not have been informed.

markpb

If it's your management company, you need to act right now. If the company is dissolved for more than a year you'll have to hire a barrister and go to the High Court to get it reinstated. Before that you have to get accounts filed, audited, approved by the others and submitted to the CRO with late fees to get it back.

Can you tell us the name of the management company, agent or the estate?

PDD

@connundrum - To the best of my knowledge it is the management company however as I cannot get in contact with either themsleves or the developer I cannot be certain at this time. I have contact details for both but I haven't gotten a response from either in over two months despite dozens of emails, phonecalls and voicemails.

Surely they are responsible to some degree and are required to provide me with answers to reasonable questions esp those related to health and safety or technical issues on the building etc. There has to be something I can do to get around them stonewalling me or is this another part of the Irish legislature thats conveniently left back in the 18th century.

@markpb - Eh why would I have to do all that surely I can just create a new company or residents association to take over its responabilities? I would prefer not to as it could land me in hot water.

I had a look at correspondance I received from the management company last year and the published accounts for their AGM, there was a large debt left from '06 (over-half of which was due to "management fee's" for the management company). Is this standard practice?

As a resident of a development that a management company is responsible for am I entitled to see the set of accounts the comapny filed with the CRO?

markpb

PDD wrote: »

Eh why would I have to do all that surely I can just create a new company or residents association to take over its responabilities? I would prefer not to as it could land me in hot water.

It depends on your estate. If it's the management company that has folded and the developer has vested ownership of the estate or block to the company, then any new company you set up won't own the land and will have problems insuring it. Also, only the original management company can issue share certificates to new owners which means you can't legally sell your apartment without the original company.

I had a look at correspondance I received from the management company last year and the published accounts for their AGM, there was a large debt left from '06 (over-half of which was due to "management fee's" for the management company). Is this standard practice?

Standard, no but common, yes. It's not an ideal situation but it happens.

As a resident of a development that a management company is responsible for am I entitled to see the set of accounts the comapny filed with the CRO?

Yes. They should be sent out 21 days before each AGM.

PDD

Ok I eventually managed to get the builder on the phone and apparently there is no change in the arrangements for management and they have no idea why the company is listed as disolved.

So they can just dip into the cash at any stage under the generic term of fees and theres nothing any of the residents or clients can do about it? Surely I should be able to demand an explaination/breakdown of the fee's and question the validity of expenditure.

Unfortunately I moved in the day after the AGM for 07 so I didnt get a copy of the accounts. Can I request these from the CRO?

markpb

PDD wrote: »

Ok I eventually managed to get the builder on the phone and apparently there is no change in the arrangements for management and they have no idea why the company is listed as disolved.

The builder might not be worried but you should still check into it. A quick call to the CRO should do the trick.

Unfortunately I moved in the day after the AGM for 07 so I didnt get a copy of the accounts. Can I request these from the CRO?

I don't think so, you'll probably have to request them from the m/a or developer. Again, ask the CRO and they should be able to tell you.

is_that_so

I'm pretty sure you can download the accounts , at a cost of course. This assumes of course that they have been submitted. We discovered this when someone sold a property in our complex and we got a form from their solicitor.

connundrum

markpb wrote: »

The builder might not be worried but you should still check into it. A quick call to the CRO should do the trick.



I don't think so, you'll probably have to request them from the m/a or developer. Again, ask the CRO and they should be able to tell you.

Accounts should be freely available to any owner, CRO or your solicitor may be able to quote legislation regarding the same.

Victor

PDD wrote: »

Unfortunately I moved in the day after the AGM for 07 so I didnt get a copy of the accounts. Can I request these from the CRO?

You should be able to get the summary accounts from the CRO for a modest charge. I'm sure you can even do it over the internet with a credit card.

The company may or may not prepare more detailed accounts for the shareholders, that is the property holders.

Do not trust the builder.

PDD

Hi Folks,

Sorry about the late reply, I have been away for a while. I returned home to find a letter from my management company notifying me of an increase in my fees and demanding payment dispite having paid forward for 2008 or so I thought when I bought the apartment (which is funny given that the notified me there would be a change in the refuse collection service provider as they were going to make 'substanisal savings'). They are asking that the cheques be paid out to a different company which I think has been formed specifically just for the management of the estate or for the management of the apartments seperate from the estate (I am trying to get clarification on this).

After a company is disolved surely this prevents them from being able to have any power in demanding this payment?

At the moment the stairwells of the apartments are unfunished (as in just bare concrete) and when I raised the issue with the builder as part of my snag list he informed me that this would be completed by the management company. If the management company has now folded is it possible for me to chase up this with them or is just a waste of my time?

From the accounts of last year it looks as if there are no funds available to do this dispite fee's being paid, surely the newly formed company will charge us for doing this if they have no funds (the last set of fee's went to the now folded company). Can I fight this in any way?

Dave

markpb

PDD wrote: »

At the moment the stairwells of the apartments are unfunished (as in just bare concrete) and when I raised the issue with the builder as part of my snag list he informed me that this would be completed by the management company.

The management company has nothing to do with finishing or furnishing the apartments, it sounds like the builder is trying something incredibly dodgy there. If you haven't already, don't agree to the snag!

I returned home to find a letter from my management company notifying me of an increase in my fees and demanding payment dispite having paid forward for 2008 or so I thought when I bought the apartment (which is funny given that the notified me there would be a change in the refuse collection service provider as they were going to make 'substanisal savings').

When did you buy the apartment? I presume at the time of purchase, it was explained to you what term your service charge would cover. It would be unusual but not unknown for a management company to amend the service fee and ask for more money.

Paulw

PDD wrote: »

They are asking that the cheques be paid out to a different company which I think has been formed specifically just for the management of the estate or for the management of the apartments seperate from the estate (I am trying to get clarification on this).

After a company is disolved surely this prevents them from being able to have any power in demanding this payment?

Normally your management company should be something like "Development Management Company Ltd", and all payments of your management fee should be made payable to them. You should never make payment to any other company, especially not Management Agent Ltd.

This all sounds very suspicious and dodgy.

If there are common hallways and such, then it may actually be up to the management company to carpet/floor these, rather than the builder.

Victor

Lawyer. Lawyer. Lawyer.

jdivision

Can you pm me the name of the developer. Sounds like one I'm familiar with.

PDD

@markpb - I wouldnt be surprised of the builder is dodgy but as I've already closed the sale that leaves me with no option but to pursue it via the management company. The increase in fee's is due to a 7.5% increase that was agreed at the last AGM. The money requested is for the balance of 3 months of fees for 2008.

From looking at the CRO listings it seems there is only summary accounts. Is there any way I can request access to more detailed information, as a resident/share holder surely I should be able to question spending
esp when its 14K for a management agent who appears to be doing **** all.

Once a company is listed as disolved is it required to cease trading? I mean I received a letter from the management agent requesting the increase in fees but the cro lists the company as disolved since Sep 07 - is this right? How can they issue letters requesting fees when the company is dead.

At the moment the apartments and houses for the estate all have the one management company, can the apartments be split off into a seperate management company?

Dave

Paulw

You really need to consult a solicitor about this.

On the CRO you will only get the accounts summary. That's normal.

It's highly unlikely you can split the development off, but a good solicitor should be able to advise you better.

The_Conductor

markpb wrote: »

If it's your management company, you need to act right now. If the company is dissolved for more than a year you'll have to hire a barrister and go to the High Court to get it reinstated. Before that you have to get accounts filed, audited, approved by the others and submitted to the CRO with late fees to get it back.

Can you tell us the name of the management company, agent or the estate?

Markpb is entirely correct.
You need to act immediately to get your Management Company reinstated- you have no idea of how much trouble it is to get it reinstated after a year is up (or how expensive). The properties, inclusive of all open spaces, carpark etc, are vested in the Management Company- you simply own a longterm lease on your apartment. You cannot legally sell your apartment while the company is dissolved (not that this has stopped at least 2 enterprising solicitors in the Dublin area so far......)

You need to get this sorted. I would ignore any correspondence from any company claiming to have taken over assets or liabilities of the Management Company and convene an EGM immediately at which the sole item on the agenda should be the re-instatement of the Management Company. All other matters are subservient to this.