iPoker datamining

MuddyDog

What software do I need for this?

Mr.Plough

Eyepoker or goldmine

http://www.spadeit.com/eindex.php

www.gold-mine-poker.com

You can buy pre-mined hands at goldmine to save you mining yourself.

Macspower

Mr.Plough wrote: »

Eyepoker or goldmine

http://www.spadeit.com/eindex.php

www.gold-mine-poker.com

You can buy pre-mined hands at goldmine to save you mining yourself.

eyepoker is far superior IMO...

also I have a real problem with goldmine selling mined hands unless they have mined them themselves... I purchased it but stopped using it when I discovered that all my hands were getting uploaded to them.....

anyone else have a problem with this? or is it standard?

phantom_lord

I think it's disgraceful tbh.

Mr. Flibble

There is a version of Gold Mine available which doesn't upload hands. It is the choice of the customer which they use.

TripleAce

Hi,

are these programs stand-alone or can you only use them if you have PokerTracker or PokerOffice, etc?

I have the full version of Sharkscope and the "Tournament Selection" option is only available for PokerStars, PartyPoker. etc - not for iPoker.

All I need is really a tool to identify fishy SNG tables - would this serve the purpose?

zuutroy

TripleAce wrote: »

Hi,

are these programs stand-alone or can you only use them if you have PokerTracker or PokerOffice, etc?

I have the full version of Sharkscope and the "Tournament Selection" option is only available for PokerStars, PartyPoker. etc - not for iPoker.

All I need is really a tool to identify fishy SNG tables - would this serve the purpose?

1. You need Pokertracker or similar
2. Cash only

AdMMM

phantom_lord wrote: »

I think it's disgraceful tbh.

I don't really see the problem with it. We can opt to buy a version which doesn't share hands if we prefer that.

Personally I think it's a very clever way of creating an additional stream of revenue using a very cheap and efficient method!

Macspower

|.Murderer.| wrote: »

I don't really see the problem with it. We can opt to buy a version which doesn't share hands if we prefer that.

Personally I think it's a very clever way of creating an additional stream of revenue using a very cheap and efficient method!

There was no choice when I purchased it.... one version only that I knew of and when I found out what was happeneing my hard earned datamined hands I never used it again..... I think the other version was brought out after but I may be corrected on this....

TripleAce

zuutroy wrote: »

2. Cash only

You ruined my day

Seriosuly though - thanks for the info

Is there any software out there for table selection for S&G on iPoker? It takes me ages to check all the players one by one in Sharkscope and by the time I finish they normally close the registrations + it is boring.

Mr. Flibble

There was always the option for a non-upload version. There was, and still is, no mention of it on the main page of the web site.

I completely understand if people have a problem with hands being sent somewhere for resale - when I'm playing I certainly want everyone else at the table to be in as a bad a position as possible. There are many people who don't want to spend time datamining themselves. Why would a 5/10 player spend a few hours a week fiddling around with Eyepoker or Gold Mine when they can pay someone a few BBs to give them 100k hands.

Apart from the financial side of things, when I started the project I wanted to have a place where people can run queries on a large dataset. These mega poker companies don't, as far as I know, have a government approved independent auditing system. Why wouldn't they give new players a small edge in the cards to get them on an initial winning streak and get them hooked? Most problem gamblers will have started their careers with an initial win. This sort of fudge will be very hard to notice on any small data set but may show up with 10 or 100M hands to query.
A few people have asked to run queries on the database (the answer is yes, you may:) but so far no one has come through with any for me to run.


Does PT support SnGs on iPoker, or PokerOffice or any other program?
If Gold Mine supported datamining of SnGs, without an auto open table mechanism, do (anyone) you think it would be used? I'd imagine opening new SnG tables all the time would become tedious very quickly.

opr

Mr Flibble ,

Isn't this something i have seen other companies banned from most major sites for trying ?

From what i read your basically offering a centralised database not unlike the kind of service http://www.poker-edge.com/ provides.

I remember someone trying to do something like this on party a while back and party banning them.

Opr

Mr. Flibble

opr wrote: »

Mr Flibble ,

Isn't this something i have seen other companies banned from most major sites for trying ?

From what i read your basically offering a centralised database not unlike the kind of service http://www.poker-edge.com/ provides.

I remember someone trying to do something like this on party a while back and party banning them.

Opr

Well, its similar enough to poker-edge.com in that it requires a database of hands. We don't offer an interface to view limited statistics on the players but offer the raw hand histories which people can use in poker tracker themselves.
Poker-edge say they support 100+ sites. I imagine many of those sites don't allow datamining, but people continue to do it. iPoker could integrate a system to detect datamining applications - perhaps its somewhere on the dev after resizable tables. iPoker currently do allow datamining. I have a number of emails from them confirming this.
Regards the distribution of hand history data, I don't mine using the iPoker software myself and therefore haven't agreed to the T&Cs of iPoker. They could possible have an issue with copyright of the hands, but that would be a complex international copyright issue and I would love to see how it pans out in court (I'm in Ireland if Playtech want a piece).

RoundTower

Even though ipoker don't seem to care, or have no resources to enforce it if they do care, it's pretty sleazy and shouldn't be allowed imo.

Then again some people would say the same thing about PT itself. So you have to draw a line somewhere.

Mr. Flibble

RoundTower wrote: »

Even though ipoker don't seem to care, or have no resources to enforce it if they do care, it's pretty sleazy and shouldn't be allowed imo.

Then again some people would say the same thing about PT itself. So you have to draw a line somewhere.

Just so you know, I was seriously considering paying thai kids to datamine for me. Things can always be worse

opr

From looking at the site i only see one download option ?

When you say the option is available to download a version which does not upload hands to a centralised database do you have to request this ?

Do you actually make reference anywhere on the site that goldmine site will be using your mined hands ?

Can you explain exactly how it works ? Do you actually have internet contact with each application you sell ? This means you can communicate with each product you sell ..... this would make me feel a little uncomfortable if i was using it ?

Edit - Also surely it wrong that most people using this probably don't even know your downloading their hands.

Opr

Macspower

I know I had no idea I was uploading my hands when I purchased the program in good faith.....

I think it was Ian Mc raied the issue in a thread and when I discovered what was happening I immediately stopped using it and TBH felt it was very underhanded way of doing business...

I would have looked for a refund but it was such a small fee I didn't bother....

I wonder under the data protection act is this breaking rules....

Wrong if you ask me anyway..... anyway thankfully there is an alternative/better program that doesn't do this

Mr. Flibble

The demo does not upload hands - the upload bit only becomes functional when people purchase a standard sub number. This is why there is only one download option.

The info regarding the versions is all on the FAQ page (high in the list, Q2). You have to email us to get the non upload version. There have been so few requests for it that I have yet seen no need to automate the purchase of it. As the user experience is exaclty the same for both versions it makes sense that most people go for the cheaper version.

Its likely that some users don't know that the info is sent to us. But the information is far from hidden on the web site. I don't know if I would consider it wrong (wrong is always going to be a subjective matter). How many users of google's toolbar or any of the other internet browser add-ins know that they send data to centralised databases which marketers study to better extract money out of internet users?

Regards how it works; there is a server (or two) which the client program connects to periodically and sends the hands. The files are zipped (a hand history file with 100 hands zips to maybe 8k) so this takes very little bandwidth. The users sub number is associated with the uploaded files initially. This is only done so that we can block any illwishers who uploads dud hands. This the only use for linking. I never go and look at who is mining what. It makes no sense for me to care really. People mine at all levels, I don't care what their names are. I cannot tell what anyone's screen name is from any of the informaion received. For all intents and purposes the hands are uploaded completly anonymously. Once the hands are uncompressed and in the database there is no way for me to know who datamined them.

luckylucky

TripleAce wrote: »

You ruined my day

Seriosuly though - thanks for the info

Is there any software out there for table selection for S&G on iPoker? It takes me ages to check all the players one by one in Sharkscope and by the time I finish they normally close the registrations + it is boring.

This is ipoker sngs you are talking about, i.e donksville sngs. if you are a winning player then don't worry about pre searching, just join a table and scope your opponents then, chances are there are at least 2 donkeys on the table, you normally can tell after about 5 or 6 hands anyway. You're losing time and therefore money by dilly-dallying around tbh. The only time you might consider not bothering joining a table is if you become familiar with the players and you see that the table is full of decent regulars.

Grafter

mmmm trojan
remind me never to download a file from boards

Kannon

i've tried downloading it on a couple of different machines and i can't because of that trojan. i llooked up the info on it and it says it's not really a trojan but AVG picks it up as one. Anybody else encountered this problem?

luckylucky

Grafter wrote: »

mmmm trojan
remind me never to download a file from boards

Kannon wrote: »

i've tried downloading it on a couple of different machines and i can't because of that trojan. i llooked up the info on it and it says it's not really a trojan but AVG picks it up as one. Anybody else encountered this problem?

Which file exactly are ye talking about ?

mdwexford

Yeah im trying to download it on my new pc and AVG is picking it up as a trojan, its a false positive apparently. Getting pretty annoyed.

Thread mentioning it on 2+2 here

luckylucky

Ah you're talking about spadeit, eyepoker, primaeye and all that stuff. Yeah I upgraded to AVG 8 yesterday from 7.5 and it's detecting the set up files as trojans at the mo.

Rb

I've flicked aroud the Gold Mine site and there is absolutely no mention of the uploading of hands, except in the FAQ where it details the differences in licences and the prices.

However, when you go to the purchase page, it's looking for $24.99, instead of offering the second non-uploading licence with it.

Very, very misleading and I can see how customers wouldn't even realise they're uploading hands, which you're then selling on for a profit. If anything, the uploading version should be free since you stand to make money from it's use.

OP: buy EyePoker from spadeit.com and if you need to buy hands, post a thread on 2+2 and someone will sort you out.

mdwexford

I got it sorted, download the version without setup, unzip it and run the exe file and your laughing.

Grafter

In the context of computing and software, a Trojan horse, or simply trojan, is a piece of software which appears to perform a certain action but in fact performs another .... Contrary to popular belief, this action, usually encoded in a hidden payload, may or may not be actually malicious

from wikipedia

Mr. Flibble

rb_ie wrote: »

I've flicked aroud the Gold Mine site and there is absolutely no mention of the uploading of hands, except in the FAQ where it details the differences in licences and the prices.

However, when you go to the purchase page, it's looking for $24.99, instead of offering the second non-uploading licence with it.

Very, very misleading and I can see how customers wouldn't even realise they're uploading hands, which you're then selling on for a profit.

I've added a big fat in your face unmissable notice on the download page. edit: I hadn't realised so many people found it difficult to find out that hands are uploaded. I have no problem with people being fully aware of what is going on.

rb_ie wrote: »

If anything, the uploading version should be free since you stand to make money from it's use.

Or, perhaps more realistically, I should charge an amount that will maximize profit. Not much else makes much sense really.

AdMMM

Actually, one query I'd like run on the database is how many players are winners over a decent sample size. My database has been reporting 60:40 for the past year!

Mr. Flibble

|.Murderer.| wrote: »

Actually, one query I'd like run on the database is how many players are winners over a decent sample size. My database has been reporting 60:40 for the past year!

That stands at 38.7/61.3 over 6M hands.

Postgresql is preferred over English for any thing PT doesn't do itself It would be interesting to see the different win/loss ratios at different levels...

Kannon

mdwexford wrote: »

I got it sorted, download the version without setup, unzip it and run the exe file and your laughing.

thanks mrwexford.