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best rigid board and concrete ammount make up 150mm finished floor.

  • 29-02-2008 3:01pm
    #1
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭


    Whats the best rigid board for insulation in the floor?
    fromsearchig i see some people say xtratherm (though i am not doing UFH) or aeroboard.
    I have 150mm to bring meup to almost floor level but i am leaving it fall short to allow tiles/carpet etc to come up to correct doorframe height.

    i guess my question is whats the the least ammount of concrete to use so i can use the most ammount of rigid board as possible.

    even though i have no UFH central heating pipes will be running to the rads so my guess Is i need 75mm for strustural safety and i have no idea whats the best rigid board in 75mm-80mm thickness.


Comments

  • #2
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    might help to add my house is built on a raft so it is solid concrete under the radon barrier everywhere.


  • #3
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    you need a minimum of 65 screed.....

    personally i would go 75 insulation and 65 screed reinforced


  • #4
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    how do you reinforce 65mm screed ? some sort of mesh?

    may soud like a silly question but doesnt the concrete floor squash the rigid insulation?!


  • #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    jasperok wrote: »
    1. may soud like a silly question but doesnt the concrete floor squash the rigid insulation?

    2. how do you reinforce 65mm screed ? some sort of mesh?

    !

    1. No.

    2. A393 mesh


  • #6
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    thanks
    so wall to wall 75 xtratherm with raised 25mm edges at the perimeter .
    water pipes rested on insulation
    single layer of a393 propped up so as not weighing down on the pipes.
    pour 65mm concrete. (what is it 10mm chip concrete? - cant afford easyscreed!)


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  • #7
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    jasperok wrote: »
    thanks
    so wall to wall 75 xtratherm with raised 25mm edges at the perimeter .
    water pipes rested on insulation
    single layer of a393 propped up so as not weighing down on the pipes.
    pour 65mm concrete. (what is it 10mm chip concrete? - cant afford easyscreed!)


    Its concrete with stone chips... no larger than 10mm
    Make sure ypu get the correct newton concrete that your engineer would specify.


  • #8
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    If it's a screed, there are no chips - it's a dry sand/cement mix, usually supplied (early in the a.m.) with retardent in fine weather.

    You don't use concrete for screeds - that's just the word everyone uses......

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  • #9
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,555 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    1. No.

    2. A393 mesh
    Would A252 not be a better option for a thin layered screed?


  • #10
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    just googling there and A252 is 8mm gauge and the A393 is 9mm gauge.
    to be honest i am suprised it has to be reinforced.
    But thats only because i read people have been using 35mm screed (but maybe thats easyscreed).


  • #11
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,902 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    galwaytt wrote: »
    If it's a screed, there are no chips - it's a dry sand/cement mix, usually supplied (early in the a.m.) with retardent in fine weather.

    You don't use concrete for screeds - that's just the word everyone uses......
    Concrete is a very general term and it would still apply to a dry sand/cement mix. calling them concrete is correct.
    jasperok wrote: »
    just googling there and A252 is 8mm gauge and the A393 is 9mm gauge.
    to be honest i am suprised it has to be reinforced.
    But thats only because i read people have been using 35mm screed (but maybe thats easyscreed).
    The 35mm screed was almost certainly a calcium sulphate screed (such as esy screed). These are slightly different chemically, and can be 35mm thick when used as a floating screed.
    Just to make sure, when you priced it, did you compare price per unit area, not volume. Concrete is normally sold per volume, and using a calcium sulphate screed allows to almost half the volume.


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  • #12
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    I'm sorry to drag this up again but i am just making sure the plan ok to go with by layers:

    layer of 40mm thin-r xtratherm
    layer of 35mm thin-r xtratherm
    polythene vapor layer (don't know what product to use here???)
    pipes/plumping
    a292 mesh for reinforcenent
    pour 65mm concrete

    i am thinking of 2 layers of xtratherm instead of one layer as i have read it fits better - is that true or would i be better off with 75mm layer?

    thanks for the advice.


  • #13
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,314 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Two layers running in opposite directions to ensure ya don't have a continuous seam is probably the best way to go..


  • #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    jasperok wrote: »
    I'm sorry to drag this up again but i am just making sure the plan ok to go with by layers:

    layer of 40mm thin-r xtratherm
    layer of 35mm thin-r xtratherm
    polythene vapor layer (don't know what product to use here???)
    pipes/plumping
    a292 mesh for reinforcenent
    pour 65mm concrete

    i am thinking of 2 layers of xtratherm instead of one layer as i have read it fits better - is that true or would i be better off with 75mm layer?

    thanks for the advice.

    firstly, make sure youve laid your DPM / Radon membrane
    then do as quazzie states above.
    then lay a 1200 gauge DPM (less gauge may be acceptable, but 1200 preferrable)
    make sure the plumbing is fixed to the insulation with proper clips... and make sure theyre cable tied where necessary.
    The a292 may not be necessary, but would be a good addition.
    Powerfloat finish.


  • #15
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    i ppreciate the advice.

    is there a proper clip for the pipes? dos it have a trade name?


  • #16
    RKQ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    I assume the walls are built? If so do not try to powerfloat screed, as you won't be able to level it.

    Use a dry Sand / Cement screed from a Concrete truck, 2 wheelbarrows and lots of labour!
    Get screed level by dumpy level and hand trowel / float. There are many Concrete sub-contractors that can quickly lay a screed to an excellent level.
    They use a dumpy level to set "spot heights" lumps of screed every 1500mm centres.
    They "pull" the dry screed to the "spot levels" ensuring a level screed.

    Most foil backed insulation has the same u-value for the same thickness. Two sheets with stepped joints is a good idea. The polythene vapour barrier may be a reference to a "slipping sheet", used to prevent cement reacting with the foil. 1000 guage plastic is €30 approx for a large roll.


  • #17
    jasperok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭jasperok


    what about the 6mm A142 mesh - is that too thin/light?


  • #18
    RKQ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    A142 should be fine, its not structural as such, its there to help prevent the screed cracking! Thin light mesh is ideal for screeds. Very practical

    1000 guage plastic is fine, as you will be puncturing it with the plumbing clips!
    There will be very little traffic on the membrane - plumber and screeders for a few hours each.

    Use 1200 gauge (more expensive and slightly stronger) if you intend to cable-tie the plumbing to the mesh, therefore not puncturing the membrane!


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